Collaborators (305)

[Trek_Girl42]

yeah but still, the cylons did't have the right to open fire - their binary code of honor forbids them to fight on hallowed ground

Opening fire on the people isn't really the point, what I'm saying is that it would be a major frak-up on their part to not search temples on a regular basis.

[Skydiver]

it was a betrayal of trust.

the cylons had respected the temples and left them untouched. the humans took advantage of it, the cylons reacted.

i'm not faulting what the humans did, you do what you must to survive, yet, at its root, the temple massacre is their fault. they knew the cylons would react so they hid the weapons in a place frequented by non-combatants.

there was bound to be collateral damage.

IMHO, the resisitence was too open with what theydid, how they talked, all that. they were begging to be overheard, especially when i'm sure there are undiscovered skin jobs out there, not to mention collaborators that could have been playing both sides

the wider the circle, the greater the chance for discovery

[Carewolf]

I wonder how the politics of this episode is received. The circle is a symbol of what is going on at Guantanamo, where people are held without the right to a defense or even to know the evidence against them (at least the victims of the circle was informed of the charges).
Roslins speechs against Zarek is like a argument in real world election.

[Othere]

It's interesting that choose airlocking as a form of execution. How quick and painless is it? Would it have been more humane to shoot them in the head?

Count me in as another person whose esteem of Gaeta rose with this episode. I liked that he didn't beg. Felt for Jammer as he died, poor man.

I somehow dont think that when they came up with methods of execution that humane was on their to-do list.
The airlock makes sense:
a) it's a reoccuring theme throughout the series - bad guys get spaced.
b) shooting them would waste valuable resources that could be better spent on Cylons
c) Then there is the mess - there are only so many announcements for clean up on Aisle 9 they could make before some one got suspicious

Airlocking them was the only way that they could get rid of the collaborators without raising too much suspicion. No mess, no fuss and with someone like the XO and the chief on the Circle, no one is going to stick around when ordered off the deck.

[SoulReaver]

Count me in as another person whose esteem of Gaeta rose with this episode. I liked that he didn't beg. Felt for Jammer as he died, poor man.

yup, Gaeta r0xd big time

I didn't care much about Jammer though (not that I really wanted him offed or anything)

I'm surprised Gaeta didn't mention the dog bowl & his disclosing secret info on his own though (when he was about to be executed)
he spoke about it but not until Kara asked him to - it wuz almost like he didn't care much about saving his own life

[Othere]

you still have to dispose of the body. and you run the risk of someone hearing the shot and becoming an inadvertant witness.

spacing both kills and disposes of the body

the one plot hole...no one in CIC noticed the viper tube doors being opened? i would kinda think there'd be a record of that and safeguards against it

also, we don't know if htey were all spaced. it's unlikely that all 13 victims were on the same ship so it was 13 murders orchestrated all over the fleet.

course, that means that people communicated to each other via radio, thus increasing the chance of being over heard. or they traveled amongst the fleet, which also leaves a record

little plot hole. maybe it's addressed in the podcast

Thank you - that was my one quibble. I guess the only way around that was that the Galactica had taken quite a lot of damage and someone in the circle, say the chief or the XO could claim that it was a faulty connection or light etc, thus fobbing it off.
I get the impression that a lot of the NCP were ex-miltary types, which would make it easy for the Circle to get hold of them.

[Othere]

yup, Gaeta r0xd big time

I didn't care much about Jammer though (not that I really wanted him offed or anything)

I'm surprised Gaeta didn't mention the dog bowl & his disclosing secret info on his own though (when he was about to be executed)
he spoke about it but not until Kara asked him to - it wuz almost like he didn't care much about saving his own life

Like he said, he wasn't going to beg. I doubt it would have changed the minds of the circle had the chief not been there. They had pretty much made their own minds up without any investigation. Happy/lucky coincidence that the chief was chosen for the Circle.

[hoof]

I wonder how the politics of this episode is received. The circle is a symbol of what is going on at Guantanamo, where people are held without the right to a defense or even to know the evidence against them (at least the victims of the circle was informed of the charges).
Roslins speechs against Zarek is like a argument in real world election.

That's just the latest version of something that's been going on since the dawn of time. RDM says in his podcast that the circle and the retribution is loosely based on what happened in France after the allies liberated them from Germany during WW2. Women who had been with German soldiers had their heads shaved, there were killings, etc, anyone who had "collaberated" with the German occupation was at risk. A lot of those that were "punished" probably had something like BSG's circle deciding their fate. The analogy is much closer to post-WW2 France than Guantanamo.

That's one thing I like about BSG, it brings up themes and situations that are timeless, that have happened in real life, and will happen in the future. People are just a little sensitive to what's going on today, thus their first reaction is that BSG is making a statement on today's events. But that's only partly true. There's a reason the phrase "History repeats itself". BSG is just bringing some rather unpleasant aspects of humanity to light, it isn't attempting to judge what's happening today except to show how there might be different views on current events than what we normally see (just like in situations in the past).

[Trek_Girl42]

yup, Gaeta r0xd big time

I didn't care much about Jammer though (not that I really wanted him offed or anything)

I'm surprised Gaeta didn't mention the dog bowl & his disclosing secret info on his own though (when he was about to be executed)
he spoke about it but not until Kara asked him to - it wuz almost like he didn't care much about saving his own life

That didn't surprise me much- Gaeta knows that he did everything he possibly could have in the situation, but he still feels the guilt over the events of New Caprica, he certainly didn't believe he should die for it, but I think he still does feel the guilt of it all anyway. That is the mark of a good person.

[SoulReaver]

Like he said, he wasn't going to beg. I doubt it would have changed the minds of the circle had the chief not been there. They had pretty much made their own minds up without any investigation. Happy/lucky coincidence that the chief was chosen for the Circle.

Since when does telling the truth equate with "begging" ? If Gaeta wanted to die, or didn't care about living (for some obscure reason) that would explain his behavior

but assuming he wanted to live, why the heck didn't he pipe up ?

That he chose not to "beg" for his life was one thing - question of honor - but wouldn't that be all the more a reason for him to speak up, even berate them (that's the opposite of "begging" -) about how wrong they were & telling them about the dog bowl ? not doing so would have meant dying with his former comrades (wrongfully) thinking of him as a traitor - not a very honorable death is it ?

As for the lack of investigation...they did give him a chance, not to beg but to explain himself - and like the chief said this was a secret signal only known to him, so Gaeta's very mentioning of it would have been enough to prove him true
And even had the chief been absent from the circle, Tigh as the leader knew they had an informant & knew it was the chief who recovered the secret info - he'd surely have postponed the execution pending further inquiry, and found out that Gaeta was indeed telling the truth

[foxhound22]

That's a common misconception that's unfortunately spread by Hollywood amongst other things.

The other misconceptions would be that it only takes TV Detectives an hour to solve a murder.

[SoulReaver]

That didn't surprise me much- Gaeta knows that he did everything he possibly could have in the situation, but he still feels the guilt over the events of New Caprica, he certainly didn't believe he should die for it, but I think he still does feel the guilt of it all anyway. That is the mark of a good person.

a bit of guilt perhaps but heck, c'mon, not the point of deserving execution !?
though perhaps that's as close as we can get to an explanation

Still, you'd expect Gaeta to speak up & tell them about his role as an informant, if not to save his life, at least 1) to save his honor, so the others wouldn't think of him as an evil traitor and 2) dispel some of the guilt, knowing that he did offer the resistance crucial help, and letting his fellow crewmembers also know about it - thus making them feel some of the guilt too (for executing him )

[Trek_Girl42]

a bit of guilt perhaps but heck, c'mon, not the point of deserving execution !?
though perhaps that's as close as we can get to an explanation

Still, you'd expect Gaeta to speak up & tell them about his role as an informant, if not to save his life, at least 1) to save his honor, so the others wouldn't think of him as an evil traitor and 2) dispel some of the guilt, knowing that he did offer the resistance crucial help, and letting his fellow crewmembers also know about it - thus making them feel some of the guilt too (for executing him )

He's also probably very tired- he's been playing a duel role for the past four months, and of course everyone had been on the run before that, and Gaeta had a very high-stress job (and despite his "perfect officer" appearence, we already know that he caves to stress- the tatoo, the smoking). He has to have a limited tollerance level. Maybe there is a small part of him that wanted them to get it over with. He didn't want to die, but there's a part of him that doesn't care, that stems from the guilt, stress, etc.

And having everyone hate him didn't help either.


Speaking of stress, I'm surprised that the population count hasn't being going down even further due to suicides, etc. Side question- should that number be fluctuating a bit more from week to week then it has been? Or will that just confuse some viewers. (then again, the ones keeping exact track of the number already probably get the idea)

[LoneStar1836]

I assumed that Gaeta didn’t bother to say anything as he was about to be killed because he had already tried to explain to Kara in the mess hall that he had provided information to the resistance. Maybe he thought she had at least relayed this information to the rest of the Circle, but they still didn’t care so he saw no point in begging. Plus he had told her that and she still voted for him to be executed. Obviously Kara didn't care since she didn't participate in the resistance activities, but you'd think she would have at least said something to Tigh and Tyrol.

[SoulReaver]

Maybe he thought she had at least relayed this information to the rest of the Circle, but they still didn’t care so he saw no point in begging. Plus he had told her that and she still voted for him to be executed. Obviously Kara didn't care since she didn't participate in the resistance activities, but you'd think she would have at least said something to Tigh and Tyrol.

rofl...that'd be some "thinking"...it wouldn't have cost him much effort to repeat it to his executionners, IMO
Besides Kara also told him to explain himself, so to him she was still giving him a chance - yet he turned it down & only seized it when Gallen intervened