Collaborators (305)

[grover]

i believe there is also a disparity on the number of deaths. the first massacre, in the webisodes, had a death toll of 10 i think, while the second has a death toll of 23

1
there was no surrender
the bullet heads did it
death toll of 10
no ncp in existence

2
there was a surrender before the bullets started flying
the ncp did it
death toll of 23
the ncp exists

everything indicates that the massacre we saw on the webisodes is not the same one they refer to on the show

and as others have pointed out, the humans are multi-thiestic, they worship multiple gods, which suggests that they have more than one temple

My image is, after the ncp was created and after the graduation bombing, the cylons set the ncp out to check all the temples. this was likely the first time the ncp got to 'police' anything, tensions were high and emotions ran deep adn things got very heated, very fast adn it ended in a shoot out...in which jammer participated

One last time.

Multiple Temples... got it.

Massacre events... got it.

I'm not arguing about that stuff. I'm saying that this idea that there was considerable lag time between the events in the first 4 episodes is wrong.

Skydiver, you suggest that there was a scene in which the NCP went out and checked the Temples. OK, then why is the scene that features Jammer and Brother Clavill written and shot in such a way that it feels as if this is Jammer's first op with the NCP? Why would Clavill have to reassure Jammer that "they've got his back"? What, the cylons didn't provide any back-up when they sent the NCP out to search the Temples? C'mon, no one sends out green units without some kind of back-up.

When you watched the season premier, didn't you get the feeling that the round-up was the NCP's first major op? Does it make any sense for there to be an extended delay between the suicide bombing and the round-up? And if there was this second massacre that took place (essentially) before where Season 3 picks up how come there is not one referrence of it until Jammer's execution? The webisode massacre is referenced briefly, but this second killing spree isn't?

Look, the fact is the writers wanted to kill off a character we had some attachment to, making Jammer the perfect example to use. The problem was they were afraid of backlash for killing off a character that (from everything we actually saw him do in the webisodes and through the first 4 episodes) did not deserve to be executed. He arrested people. OK, not exactly an offense punishable by death. He set Callie free before the Cylons could execute the prisoners. There wasn't a single thing that Jammer did THAT WE SAW that would merit his execution. But the writers couldn't let him off the hook because it would steal all the power behind Geata's moment of truth. So they had to fabricate a story to justify killing off Jammer. Un fortanetly, they did it in such a way that could not be supported by the previous four episodes.

[Matt G]

1. Tigh may be a frackhead but he did have one good line is this ep "do you know where my eye is?"

2. Admiral Adama looks like he knows Tigh is a frackhead and has him relieved of duties.

3. What the hell is Lee meant to be doing on Galactica right now other than jumping rope?

4. Liked the "circle" idea(from a story POV at least), didn't make sense for Zarek to be the one behind it.

5 Baltar, you are a warped dreamer.

Overall, solid ep!

[Integrabyte]

Very sad that at the end... the only one eating with Felix was Tyrol. Without Felix all of them would have been fraked!!! Ungrateful frakkers . A very good episode nonetheless.

[EarthandBeyond]

The Human population got reduced to 41 000 and yet, people still killing each other in this show.
No, i dont buy it. I just cant imagine that people could be so careless to one another in such a difficult time.

Also Lucy Lawless. Wow, she looks awesome.

[P-90_177]

The Human population got reduced to 41 000 and yet, people still killing each other in this show.
No, i dont buy it. I just cant imagine that people could be so careless to one another in such a difficult time.

Also Lucy Lawless. Wow, she looks awesome.

Serriously? You obviously don't understand human nature very well. No offense intended.

[EarthandBeyond]

Serriously? You obviously don't understand human nature very well. No offense intended.

Why do you think they do it then?

[P-90_177]

Why do you think they do it then?

In this episode? Simple.

Imagine that for months you had to watch friends and family die. Killed off one by one. You couldn't do anything about it. You just had to watch it happening. What would your first instinct be? What would you want to do to the people responsible? Forget that the guys they were executing were directly responsible because in that sort of situation it doesn't matter. If you can't get to those directly responsible you go for those closest to. that's the collaborators. The ones that went along with it or assisted with it. You aren't going to care that there are only so many people in the fleet. In your mind they aren't even human any more. Not fit to live.

[Catsitter]

Interesting to see just how much of this thread is devoted to discussion of why Gaeta didn't beg, having read this in the Season 3 Official Companion:

During the shooting of the Circle's attempted execution of Gaeta, Juliani decided that his character shouldn't beg for his life (as originally planned), but instead should realize the futility of his situation. "I thought that was a really smart decision," Moore notes. "It makes that scene even more interesting".

I also think this bit explains a lot:
... the episode's plotline changed significantly during pre-production. Early versions of the story didn't involve the Circle but instead concerned acts of retribution carried out by vigilantes. These acts were sanctioned by President Zarek, who later issued the call for reconciliation, as well as a blanket pardon, before handing over power to Roslin. Tigh also played a less significant role in the hunt for the collaborators in early drafts, and at one point was actually going to be responsible for saving Gaeta.

I'm afraid I don't feel that the episode as shown hangs together all that well. Even if you explain all Tigh's actions by saying "he's gone mad" (he always despised Zarek and has always been keener on following the military rules than any presidential edict, so why would he think it was o.k. to be in the Circle just because President Zarek, whose election he tried to prevent, said so, and not mention it to Adama?) why would Tyrol also take part in the Circle and keep it a secret? He hasn't gone mad too, has he? It does feel like one of those episodes that has been changed around a lot and ends up being pretty inconsistent.

[chevron3]

poor jammer

[EyesOnly09]

Hello guys. I just started watching Battlestar Galactica this year like 3 months ago or so and I have to say this show is better then I thought it would be. I never gave the show a chance because I was always a Stargate Fan. but now I like all things Science Fiction. Ive since I joined I thought it would be a good idea to watch an Eppisode and then talk a bit about it on here but my computer is pretty much dead, it got a bad virus and now its telling my I have no memory but I replaced them last year, its also 8 years old so I should get a new one but I will wait before a bit. So now I can only come on here when I use my mom's computer. I just saw this Epp. last night and it was good. I thought "The Circle" is what I think they called themselves. It's hard to believe I'm already on season 3 and after that then its the last season of the show. So far it's been a great ride. I love starbuck but as of now I wished we would see more of her. It seems lately they haven't been doing much with her. Or maybe I just want to see more of her. haha. It's funny that Lee has gained some weight. Whats up with that. did he do that for the show or what? At first I thought he was wearing a fat suit but now I'm not sure. Well I hope everyone had a good time watching Collabroators.
Take care,
-Eyes Only

[Cy'Lan]

Hello guys. I just started watching Battlestar Galactica this year like 3 months ago or so and I have to say this show is better then I thought it would be. I never gave the show a chance because I was always a Stargate Fan. but now I like all things Science Fiction. Ive since I joined I thought it would be a good idea to watch an Eppisode and then talk a bit about it on here but my computer is pretty much dead, it got a bad virus and now its telling my I have no memory but I replaced them last year, its also 8 years old so I should get a new one but I will wait before a bit. So now I can only come on here when I use my mom's computer. I just saw this Epp. last night and it was good. I thought "The Circle" is what I think they called themselves. It's hard to believe I'm already on season 3 and after that then its the last season of the show. So far it's been a great ride. I love starbuck but as of now I wished we would see more of her. It seems lately they haven't been doing much with her. Or maybe I just want to see more of her. haha. It's funny that Lee has gained some weight. Whats up with that. did he do that for the show or what? At first I thought he was wearing a fat suit but now I'm not sure. Well I hope everyone had a good time watching Collabroators.
Take care,
-Eyes Only

I could answer those questions, but it is best just to let you watch the all of the series or discuss what has happened. The great part of BSG was never knowing what was going to happen next, have a good time with the rest of the series.

[EyesOnly09]

I wish more shows were like Battlestar. Can you imagine what Stargate would be like if it was done in the way BSG was done. I think it would be great! I wonder what Statgate Universe will be like. Though is is not the place to talk about that. I need to find the Merchanise website so I can talk about those Engraved Dog Tags.

[the fifth man]

I had forgotten just how good this episode really was. Tonight, my wife and I watched it, as she continues her journey through the series. She really liked it, but couldn't believe they almost killed Gaeta. She breathed a nice sigh of relief once they all figured out that he had been the source within Baltar's administration. Also, she couldn't believe just how screwed up Starbuck is right now.

[md5crypto]

Throwing Jammer out the airlock was murder, plain and simiple.