Collaborators (305)

[Astrofighter]

All humans have the same capacity for every single emotion in every possible range, no matter their race or sex were all the same.

[CaraRose]

I happen to agree with you, I don't think Roslin can be considered a democrat anymore. She is a military backed strongman who likes to think of herself as a democrat. Which is actually not unusal in female heads of state, it's happened several times in earth's history.

Can you really have a true democracy in a situation like this? You have a fragment of survivors of near genocide. If you allow true democracy, you have stupid decisions made like the one to settle on New Caprica.

They need the illusion of democracy to keep the population believing the still have that tie to what they were, that things haven't entirely changed and that they still have the control. But if the mob has control, stupid sh*t is going to happen.

The nice thing about Adama and Rosilin is that they are basically co-dictators here. They balance each other and together may actually make a decent person. Mascaline energy balanced by the feminine energy.

Heh, okay, perhaps I've been spending to much time working on my BSG Tarot now that I'm babbling about mascaline and feminine energy (but Adama still must be the emperor, and Laura the empress.... I'm thinking Lee as the Magician. Sharon and the High Priestess perhaps. Still can't think of a good one for the Fool. Galactica the chariot... hrm...)

[Major Fischer]

IMHO may be even more susceptible to needing/using "might" to back up that power.

That's an opinion that has a certain amount of historical weight behind it.

[Major Fischer]

Can you really have a true democracy in a situation like this?

I think that's one of the central questions of the show that has yet to be answered and that RDM wants the audience to have to think about.

[Back40]

Can you really have a true democracy in a situation like this? You have a fragment of survivors of near genocide. If you allow true democracy, you have stupid decisions made like the one to settle on New Caprica.

They need the illusion of democracy to keep the population believing the still have that tie to what they were, that things haven't entirely changed and that they still have the control. But if the mob has control, stupid sh*t is going to happen.

Yes, you can have a true democracy in this situation, and their Articles of Colonization entitle them to it. This doesn't mean that they won't make stupid decisions, democracies do that all the time - but under the rules of democracy, we're entitled to the right to make those decisions, stupid or otherwise.

The temptation here is to justify NOT having a true democracy for just the reasons you've stated - that there is a limited population, and for the sake of the survival of humanity, the population must be protected from it's own stupidity. In this particular situation, it would be done with the best of intentions (on Roslin's part, at least). But "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", as the saying goes.

Spoiler:

Should be interesting to see if Adama curbs her totalitarianistic tendencies this time, or whether he lets her "steal the election", as it were...

[Major Fischer]

Spoiler:

Should be interesting to see if Adama curbs her totalitarianistic tendencies this time, or whether he lets her "steal the election", as it were...

I doubt he will, he's essentially installed her in power this time.

[Back40]

I doubt he will, he's essentially installed her in power this time.

So much for balance...

[grover]

Best part of the episode...

Lee: "Gotta go hit the jumprope"

Admiral Adama: "Keep Jumping"

I LOVE how his father keeps goofing on him!!! He's so pathetic even his father can't help making fun of him!!

Hey Titans!

Did you like how your boy Anders wimped out of his responsibility to the Council? He didn't think Gaeta was guilty but instead of voting to defend Felix he turned tail and walked away!

[grover]

He's not nuts..he's Hardcore. When your that incredibly Hardcore mere mortals can't comprehend that level of Hardcoreness and it is perceived as insanity by us simple humans.

Here's the question...

Who's more Hardcore right now, the Admiral or Tigh?

I think the Universe might explode if these two ever go at it.

[grover]

Weak episode.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but they lost me before the opening credits. I had no problem with Jammer getting expressed out the jump tube, but the charges they nailed him on were totally frakked. I watched the webisodes like most of the folks around here and Jammer didn't join the NCP until AFTER the massacre at the Temple. So either there was a SECOND massacre at the Temple (highly unlikely) or there was a second Temple where a never before referenced massacre occured (seems a stretch) OR they totally blew all continuity from the webisodes to now by executing Jammer for a crime he could not have committed.

[Back40]

Weak episode.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but they lost me before the opening credits. I had no problem with Jammer getting expressed out the jump tube, but the charges they nailed him on were totally frakked. I watched the webisodes like most of the folks around here and Jammer didn't join the NCP until AFTER the massacre at the Temple. So either there was a SECOND massacre at the Temple (highly unlikely) or there was a second Temple where a never before referenced massacre occured (seems a stretch) OR they totally blew all continuity from the webisodes to now by executing Jammer for a crime he could not have committed.

1) There was at least a second temple massacre AFTER Jammer had joined the NCP. Jammer gave the details which clearly distinguished this massacre as being a different one from the first shown in the webisode when questioned before his "execution".

2) Shouldn't be a surprise there's more than one temple when there are 12 gods in the pantheon and a population of some 39,000 people on NC. Shouldn't be surprising that they would raid EVERY temple after finding a weapons stash in the first temple raided....kind of logical, don't you think?

3) He clearly admitted to the "crime" they executed him for.

[grover]

1) There was at least a second temple massacre AFTER Jammer had joined the NCP. Jammer gave the details which clearly distinguished this massacre as being a different one from the first shown in the webisode when questioned before his "execution".

2) Shouldn't be a surprise there's more than one temple when there are 12 gods in the pantheon and a population of some 39,000 people on NC. Shouldn't be surprising that they would raid EVERY temple after finding a weapons stash in the first temple raided....kind of logical, don't you think?

3) He clearly admitted to the "crime" they executed him for.

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear re: #2. I'm sure there were multiple Temples in New Caprica, that wasn't the "stretch" I was referring to. I thought it was a stretch to think that there was a 2nd massacre at a different Temple.

See, the timeline has been shot to Hell. The Temple massacre was such a key part of the Webisodes that it influenced events all the way through to the season premier. It's part of the reason Jammer joined the NCP and it gave reason for Duck to go suicide bombing. Remember, Jammer was part of the first NCP class along with Duck. Duck went BOOM, Jammer survived and was part of the first "round-up" that netted Callie.

From that point on, events seemed to happen fairly quick. This 2nd "massacre" would have had to happen sometime between Callie getting captured and the truck drive to executionville that the Chief thwarted. Because after that rescue we go straight to Galactica coming back to save humanity. So how could such an important event like this 2nd massacre not be shown or even mentioned during the first four episodes?

It's as if the webisodes didn't happen.

Jammer's confession at the end doesn't mean anything. It was the writers' way of proving the backstory as true and freeing the audience from wondering if the Circle's actions were correct. It "proved" that Jammer was a guilty man.

Unfortanelty the whoole set-up flies in the face of what we saw happen in the webisodes. That's why I said the continuity had been blown to Hell and gone. What we saw in the webisodes had just been invalidated by Jammer's trial and execution.

[Back40]

From that point on, events seemed to happen fairly quick. This 2nd "massacre" would have had to happen sometime between Callie getting captured and the truck drive to executionville that the Chief thwarted. Because after that rescue we go straight to Galactica coming back to save humanity. So how could such an important event like this 2nd massacre not be shown or even mentioned during the first four episodes?

It's as if the webisodes didn't happen.

Ah, see, that's where our impressions differ - I didn't get the impression that the round-up happened right on the heels of Duck's suicide bombing at all, but after there had been more than one such incident. My feeling was that there was a period of time elapsed between Duck "going BOOM" as you say, and the Cylon's decision to round up the key members of the insurgency. Lots of time for other temple raids and suicide bombings and background stuff to happen. And I'm not surprised they wouldn't show this second massacre in an episode if there was no key character we would recognize (like Duck's wife was in the webisode version). TPTB aren't given to showing repeated events - settle for showing one instance, then informing us of the other occurrences unless it is critical to the plot.

[daniel9]

True, but the two term limit before that was a tradition set by Washington, and presidents until FDR carried on with that tradition until it was finally written in stone. So if there are no term limits, then she could in theory remain president until she dies. Now if democratically elected after each term expires, of course there is no problem with that unless somebody decides to change the law.

well there also was something in the us constitution i dont remember where that says that a president or its administration cant change during a time of war despite anykind of term limits

[jdog]

I think the point was Jammer was proved guilty before he entered the room. It didn't matter what he said.

Gaeta would not have made it if it weren't for Kara who i didn't think could go through with it so easily. Both her, chief and Anders are tired of war. Tigh's the problem. He feels if wife had to die others had too. he's a loose cannon.