Collaborators (305)

[Legionnaire]

Well, Baltars greatest talent is his ability to survive, he really does have animal instincts, and I'm sure he will outsmart the machines.

[Miracle_007]

*Did anyone else get the impression that Three model was trying to flirt with Gaius? Upon watching the episode a second time, she obviously made a gesture to touch him while handing him his medicine then proceded to try and sit close to him on the couch all the while scantly clad.

*Also, Caprica Six seemed to be forcing herself to pull away from Gauis. I have a feeling she will somehow run to him in his time of need if the vote goes against him.

*Didnt really like Starbucks aggression toward Geata in this episode, wanting him to "beg".

[Gate gal]

That Baltar dream sequence worked perfectly for me because thanks to my short attention span I'd forgotten that Baltar wasn't rescued by the humans. Ironically it foreshadowed events, though, as Roslyn's general pardon includes him.

You know I thought the same thing when Roslin gave the general pardon. Baltar is going to get away with it. I do think Roslin realized that she didn't have much choice but to pardon everyone. She had to know that others would take up the work that the Circle was doing. Her main objective is to save humanity, and she didn't need a civil war in the fleet. Ironically, her presidential pardon could potentially lead to a civil war anyway. Look at Starbuck. She told her husband she needed this in reference to being part of the Circle. I feel so sorry for her right now, and I don't think she is alone in her need for vengence. I love Tigh's new edge. Insanity works well for him, but I bet it is only temporary. It is also cool to see him working with Starbuck instead of picking on her. Chief is really becoming important to the show this season, too. I hate that he was involved in the Circle, but I'm glad he was there. He and Anders were the only two not looking for a blood bath.

Also, on the Baltar issue, I love that it is number 6 who can't decide what to do with him. That is justice!

[Stef]

At the same time actions were done that did a great deal of harm. Doesn't Connor deserve justice for his son's death. Jammer was directly involved in killing his seven year old. Shouldn't he have to pay for that action, no matter what his intentions? He was part of a group that killed 23 people. Doesn't he have to answer for that? Don't the dead and their survivors scream for someone to be held accountable, for the scales to be evened?

Yes, the circle was about revenge. But the main difference between justice and revenge, honestly, is that revenge is personal, justice is societal revenge. This is why the death penality exists. Why do we kill someone who's convicted of killing someone? Because justice must be served-- somehow, there are scales that are tipped out of balance, and only the death of the killer will set them right. Justice is meant to end the cycles of revenge by taking it out of the hands of the indivuals and putting it in the public to judge. The circle were trying to heal the hurt that was done to them, to get their measure of flesh for flesh. And I could easily argue that they were justified in both wanting and carrying that out. But the problem with revenge being personal is that it tends not to end. What if Jammer had a girlfriend who loved him? Doesn't she deserve the same right to seek her revenge on those who killed him as his murderers had to seek their revenge on him.

I agree with you on this. This is all very tricky, morally speaking. The thing here is that there is NO WAY this "jury" could have been serving justice because they were all so biased. I mean, Connor flat-out said as much right before Tigh knocked his head against the table....and Tigh wanted revenge for his eye and for Ellen, but he tried to convince himself he was doing justice. Then there's Starbuck who wanted to kill everyone. At least Anders and Tyrol were trying to base it on evidence. Although, let's not forget that they said point blank that they had no evidence against Gaeta and yet they were still going to execute him. Technically speaking, there should have been trials for each if they wanted true justice...of course there are problems with that as well (some of which Zarek pointed out).

I'm not saying the collaboraters shouldn't be punished...but I don't know if it was "the circle's" decision to make and if their punishments were equal to their crimes. Afterall, Jammer wasn't an assasin...he went there to arrest someone and things went out of hand. The same thing happened in Season 2 when they were distributing the food and nobody executed those soldiers...because they were serving Galactica. Shouldn't those men be held to the same standard? It's just a very complicated issue...which is, I'm sure, what the writers meant for. So, kudos to them.

And I completely agree with your point about Jammer's theoretical girlfriend. That's the problem with revenge...it doesn't end. And I suppose the fact that this seemed more like revenge than justice is really what irked me the most about the whole thing.

-Stef

[Stef]

On another note....

I just went back and watched the Gaeta "trial" scene. That was really an amazing scene. I LOVED it. The way Gaeta didn't beg, the way his role in the insurgance was revealed, everyone's reactions. Just nicely written, acted, and directed.

BTW, love your banner, THSEX1138.

[THSEX1138]

*Didnt really like Starbucks aggression toward Geata in this episode, wanting him to "beg".

Starbuck is trying to deal with the fact that while people were dying on New Caprica she was eating steak in a warm home. To make it even worse she had absolutely no part in the rescue mission whatsoever. IMO she developed feelings for Leoben when she believed he was the father of her child. All the remarks she made to Helo calling him "Stupid" when he told her that he loved Sharon the Cylon have comeback to haunt her. She is a shell of the woman she used to be.

PS Thanks Stef

[Gate gal]

Starbuck is trying to deal with the fact that while people were dying on New Caprica she was eating steak in a warm home. To make it even worse she had absolutely no part in the rescue mission whatsoever. IMO she developed feelings for Leoben when she believed he was the father of her child. All the remarks she made to Helo calling him "Stupid" when he told her that he loved Sharon the Cylon have comeback to haunt her. She is a shell of the woman she used to be.

PS Thanks Stef

I actually like the direction Starbuck is going right now. It makes sense. Remember when Starbuck and Helo were in her apartment on Caprica, and she said (paraphrasing) she fought because it was what she was good at. Starbuck had nothing too fight for before the Cylon attack. Then she fell in love and started a life on New Caprica, and it all fell apart. During her time in captivity, she became a mom (something she never wanted to be). I think losing that little girl was just the last straw, and now she just wants to be the soldier fighting the battle again. In her mind, Anders is a threat. He represents what she thinks she can't have-normalcy, and honestly she's right. She can't be normal right now. None of them can, and the stress is causing them to crack. So while a part of me hates seeing Starbuck (and Tigh) in the new darker role, the other part of me loves it because its the human response.

[IMAX]

I expected this ep to be slower. But it was intense.
Glad Gaeta didn't get deaded. Didn't expect Jammer to
get killed this quick.

I think Zarek's speech about "true justice" will cause Rosiln
to constantly look over her shoulder forever with him as VP.

"Keep Jumping..." That was funny...

Too tired to mention anything else. Must Sleep now...

[Excali5033]

Some thoughts:

-Roslin's awesome, but that's TWICE she's gotten into office defacto, and it's getting kind of creepy.
-Argh, they have another frakking Resurrection Ship.
-Someone mentioned the Circle vs. Sharon, but she's probably the most well-protected person in the fleet, they would have never gotten near her.
-Well the good Doctor is with the Cylons now. Let's just hope he doesn't show up in charge of a basestar later.
-Keep jumping. Best line in the episode.
-I hope they don't forget Anders ever existed.

[Lieutenant Colonel Davis]

I for one am glad that

Spoiler:

Gaeta

lived. He is one of my favorite mambers of Galactica.


And for that person who wanted to see one of those group members tried,

Spoiler:

On TVGuide.com AA said that a member of the cerw is forced to quit and that person wont go quietly.

[shockwave]

good ep, not as good as last week but that was hard to top

would've liked to see more of president zarek and the cylon basestar

so glad gaeta is still alive, I would really miss him

tigh and charlie connor (ladon from sga) are too revenge obsessed though

[Backlash]

The whole problem with revenge is that it never solves anything. Did killing Jammer bring back Connor's son? No, and nothing ever will. Would killing Gaeta have solved Kara's problems? No, and her misplaced rage only makes her less appealing as a character. Calling revenge "justice" was just a way for them to rationalize murder.

Tigh also needs to sort out his mental state. The scene where he puts Ellen's clothes into his locker was unsettling.

Adama's line to Lee was great.

Roslin's reinstatement as president was a foregone conclusion, and I think they handled it well.

[Thermonuclearboy]

Starbuck needs some professional help. Like, right now. I don't know if psychology exists in the BSG universe, but she needs some kind of counseling. Of couse, Starbuck being Starbuck, she'll never go. She's accustomed to being self-destructive - whether through violence, reckless flying, or drinking - and this will be her road for a long time now.

Tigh...I'm done with Tigh. For a brief moment I felt sorry for him. Then I was presented evidence as to how repulsive a human being he is. And it's only going to get worse, now that he has nothing to live for.

Gaeta's efforts need to be made public. Not just so he can sleep without fear of being code-reded by angry soldiers. He needs to be honored for his heroism. He was the bravest of them all in my opinion. Anyone can fire a gun or strap a bomb to their backs; to stay in the belly of the beast takes real courage.

[aaobuttons]

I'm hoping this isn't the end of Anders. It doesn't look like it really, she did pull him back and kiss him, like she wants him to know she still loves him. He was a settling force for her, that spark of happiness she had been lacking. Hopefully she can work her way through her problems and then get things back on track with him... those marriage brands aren't an easy thing to remove!


And I'm all for Gaeta getting some sort of recognition for what he did. He got them the jamming codes, the death list, the location of the launch keys... without him, they would have had no hope of ever escaping!

[somedude]

Jammer should not have been executed. If ya'll have forgotten, in the webisodes, he joined the NCP AFTER the temple massacre, to 'prevent future massacres.' So, they never showed him killing anyone....

IMO, the writers made a big mistake on this one. Couldn't they have just thrown some nameless red shirt out the airlock instead....? or made Jammer a cylon?!

I agree with president Roslin's general amnesty- that has worked in south africa to restore the wounds of apartheid.