Collaborators (305)

[jdog]

Shouldn't tigh be wearing an eye patch by now?? That tape but be a pain in the arsssss.

Also I think Adama is not going to be able to control tigh anymore. Anyone else agree?

[Stef]

Wait he wasn't "evil or mean"?? He joined up with the people who slaughtered BILLIONS of people, wiped his whole race off the face of the universe. The people who were killing and torturing the few remainders and he wasn't evil? Working with them in any way is evil.

Yes, but didn't Roslin or someone else say in the first two episodes that the people who joined the New Caprican police honestly believed that they were helping the humans because they thought it was better if they were policing the New Capricans rather than the Cylons? They were coming from a good place...they just wound up doing bad things. I definitely wouldn't say that they were "evil," just naive, trusting, and rather idealistic. Besides, if Jammer was truly evil I doubt he would have saved Cally.

But I suppose that depends on your definition of the word "evil." I tend to reserve that word for cold-blooded murderers and sociopaths.

-Stef

[ToasterOnFire]

Decent ep. Not the OMG of the previous ep, but it was still solid and shook up a lot of relationships.

-So, no Adama/Roslin reunion scene. No real scenes at all between them. Boo, I say boo sir.

-I figured Jammer was airlocked as soon as I saw him in the teaser. If his 'trial' was featured later in the ep I might have thought he had a chance, but showing it so early meant he was going to be spaced as the climax into the credits.

-Cally, wha? Who forgets about someone cutting your bonds and yelling at you to escape from what you thought was certain death?

-Ha, I thought that Roslin would elect Zarek as VP. And I was all for the duo until I found out that he was responsible for the Circle. Is he going to keep his position after he revealed his actions to her? Adama looks less than impressed with him. How did Zarek turn from an ex-prisoner demanding democracy in the fleet to a president okay with trials kept hidden from the public?

-Tigh's lost it and I find myself more peeved with him than sympathetic. Openly attacking Gaeta on the CIC and arguing with Adama was OTT. I feel like he died back on NC and there's only a shell walking around. Will he heal or will TPTB kill him off in some kind of suicide run? And why does Adama allow him to remain as 2IC (if that's what he is) when Tigh so obviously needs ten years or so of downtime and Lee or Helo could take his place?

-No discussion on who's the higher rank now, Tigh or Lee. What's Lee doing nowadays besides the jumprope? And what's up with Adama's cold dismissal toward his son, especially after their reunion last ep?

-Poor Gaeta. No one wants to eat lunch with him in the mess hall, Starbuck gives him a good boot, and he almost dies. At least he didn't beg. I wonder if the ep would have been more powerful if they had killed Gaeta before realizing that he was the contact. Of course, then he would have been dead and I'm still recovering from Billy.

-It would have been nice to see Sharon. What would the Circle have thought of her? Does she get a pardon because she's working for Adama now and helped save them, even though she's a cylon?

-Meh, losing the Starbuck love this ep. She's going through tough times after her capture, she knows she's going through tough times, but she doesn't care. She dumps Anders, she goes after Gaeta with a viciousness. So that's the end of Starbuck/Anders, total shock really (/sarcasm). Next ep - the end of Lee/Dee (okay, maybe not next ep but I can't see that one going long if TPTB are setting up Lee/Kara). I swear, if TPTB keep Starbuck around as a total wreck just waiting for Lee to come in and save her, I'm going to be most disappointed.

-Ha ha, Baltar. IM IN UR BASESTAR, WEARIN UR ROBEZ. I can't believe that the cylons are going to kill him off, so I'm interested in where this is going. Anyone catch what those pills were? Also, would Roslin have pardoned Baltar too if he was on Galactica?

[hoof]

Good episode. Covered a lot of ground.

-Interesting choice on how to resolve the presidency. I would not have been surprised if the people, after the New Caprica events, would be willing to go to a more tribal form of government. Democracy is a good thing, but when survival is on the line, do you really want the mob deciding things like which planet we should colonize? Maybe, maybe not, but this is an interesting example of where the mob can choose wrong. I suspect that had Zarek not done what he did, the democracy would have not survived.

People change after they go through a really traumatic experience. Yes, the loss of the colonies was traumatic, but the survivors (with a few exceptions) didn't directly experience the horrors. They were cooped up on ships with the threat of imminent death, but that's different than the experience of being occupied and going through what happened on New Caprica. I'll be curious how BSG handles this change.

-Glad to see the screwed up Galactica in the CGI. Too many shows "reset" after something like that. Galactica got pounded, you don't take that kind of pounding and come through unscathed. I'll be curious on how the series treats this damage. It's quite likely that Galactica can no longer "hold off" a baseship like she used to.

-The secret trials were an interesting facet to explore. All throughout history have these sort of "trials" been held after experiences like this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were secret trials after the American Revolution. Especially interesting was Jammer's defence, how many times have US soldiers in a more modern war dealt with similar situations? I suspect that had Jammer realized that the Chief was in the insurgency, he'd probably have phrased his defence differently. Also relavent is that even in horrible times, sometimes the best move is to allow amnesty. One can debate whether that's the right move here, but it (as many things in the series) does have real-world relavence (like the point made earlier in the thread about South Africa).

-I was, frankly, surprised at how much new CGI footage we saw. After Exodus II, I'd figure that BSG had blown it's budget for CGI for the next five episodes at least. Also, there seems in this episode to be more panning and "traditional" camerawork on the outside shots, as opposed to the normal "shaky-cam" look.

-Glad to see Gaeta survive. However, that's uncharacteristic of the series. Normal would be Gaeta being expelled out of the tube, Kara ranting about him making up the story about a dog bowl with Chief overhearing her, then everyone realizing that he was the informant. That is what I would have expected. RDM continues to surprise us. Or maybe Gaeta is too important a character to let die like that

[titans]

Yes, but didn't Roslin or someone else say in the first two episodes that the people who joined the New Caprican police honestly believed that they were helping the humans because they thought it was better if they were policing the New Capricans rather than the Cylons? They were coming from a good place...they just wound up doing bad things. I definitely wouldn't say that they were "evil," just naive, trusting, and rather idealistic. Besides, if Jammer was truly evil I doubt he would have saved Cally.

But I suppose that depends on your definition of the word "evil." I tend to reserve that word for cold-blooded murderers and sociopaths.

-Stef

Let me put it this way...Say one day Chinese tanks started rolling down your street. Say they started facing resistance from americans just like you and me. Then say posters started popping up encouraging people like you and me to join the Chinese sponcored police force. What would you do?


Yea thats what I thought.

[titans]

Shouldn't tigh be wearing an eye patch by now?? That tape but be a pain in the arsssss.

Also I think Adama is not going to be able to control tigh anymore. Anyone else agree?

They kept trying to put an eye patch on him but it kept popping off every time he flexed his head muscles...the guy is Hardcore ya know!

[jdog]

Tigh is not hardcore, he's extreeeemeeeee.

Exo X they call him.

The cylons awoke a sleeping giant with that one.....

[Stef]

-Ha ha, Baltar. IM IN UR BASESTAR, WEARIN UR ROBEZ. I can't believe that the cylons are going to kill him off, so I'm interested in where this is going. Anyone catch what those pills were? Also, would Roslin have pardoned Baltar too if he was on Galactica?

Oh, Roslin may have pardoned him...but I doubt that would matter to anyone. She'd probably know that he would be taken care of no matter what.

Honestly though, Baltar has intrigued me so far this season. I actually felt sympathy for the first time in 3 seasons for him during that scene after he was forced to sign the death warrants...when Gaeta came in and Baltar was just despondant in the chair. AMAZING scene, great acting by James.

I'm also interested in those pills. Was he taking pills at the end of the second season, in addition to drinking? Maybe he has a pill problem, just one of many of his problems right now, I would say.

Meh, losing the Starbuck love this ep. She's going through tough times after her capture, she knows she's going through tough times, but she doesn't care. She dumps Anders, she goes after Gaeta with a viciousness. So that's the end of Starbuck/Anders, total shock really (/sarcasm). Next ep - the end of Lee/Dee (okay, maybe not next ep but I can't see that one going long if TPTB are setting up Lee/Kara). I swear, if TPTB keep Starbuck around as a total wreck just waiting for Lee to come in and save her, I'm going to be most disappointed.

ITA. Starbuck, not so much a favorite anymore. But I don't think we're supposed to like her at this point. Besides, I've always had a love/hate relationship with that character.

I'm glad her and Anders are done (though I like Anders) but she has to go through A LOT more before she and Lee can even consider doing anything. I don't want Lee to "save her" but it would be nice if he helped her deal with some of the aftermath....on an emotional level, as a friend. She needs someone to help her through this, she ain't gonna be able to do it alone...especially since she seems hell-bent on holding onto that anger. Although, judging from the clip I saw on SCI-FI.com, it looks like she might just get a little kick in the butt in the next episode or two. But I heard that her and Lee sort through some "stuff" in episode 8...so who knows?

-Stef

[Stef]

Let me put it this way...Say one day Chinese tanks started rolling down your street. Say they started facing resistance from americans just like you and me. Then say posters started popping up encouraging people like you and me to join the Chinese sponcored police force. What would you do?


Yea thats what I thought.

I'm not sure I get your point. No, I wouldn't join...but that still doesn't mean that the people who would are "evil". Yeah, it's a poor decision on their part but that doesn't mean that they're horrible human beings...just misguided and naive. That is, unless those people that joined did it merely for the opportunity to kill people because they think it would be fun.

The New Caprican police force was told that they would be keeping relations between the Cylons and humans peaceful, they thought they would be helping their people by eliminating dangerous conflicts that could get them killed. I wouldn't say that is the mark of villainy.

Besides, are the Chinese in that situation even "evil"? I suppose that depends on the eye of the beholder. Let's not forget the reason the Cylons came to New Caprica. If they wanted to just destroy everyone, they easily could have. They came with the purpose to co-exist with the humans, after realizing that their genocide had been a mistake. Did they go about it wrong, you're damn right they did...but isn't that usually the case? Theoretics are a lot easier than reality (just look at the concept of Communism...good on paper...not so good in reality). I think classifying groups into either "good" or "evil" is too simplistic for my taste.

-Stef

[quara33]

About the Jammer joining the NCP after the temple raid:

The raid on the temple in the webisodes was a different raid:
1) centurions, not NCP shot up the temple
2) 10 people not 23 people died in that raid

Jammer was convicted of leading a different raid (potentially on an entirely different temple). Jammer confesses to having been present, having killed people as they surrendered, thinking they were insurgents. Not the raid we saw in the webisodes, where centurions opened fire on the temple, killing people inside.

[Thermonuclearboy]

Gaeta Lives! WOO-HOO!

He didn't beg. He didn't crawl. He walked out on his own two feet. Gaeta is The Man.

[Legionnaire]

Pretty good episode. Fast breakup between Kara and Anders, I wonder if thats paving the way for someone new for Kara or if shes in for a long dark road of solidarity after the whole Leoben incident.

Tigh was a mess in CIC but i think we all saw his being asked to take time away from being XO coming. He actually reminded me of his drinking days.

I was kinda hoping Zarek would remain president haha, that woulda been pretty sweet, but i suppose being VP will have to do, and I do agree with Roslin for pardoning everyone and moving on, we saw what the secret trials were doing and how they almost and possibly did get things wrong, its better to just put everything behind and move on and start anew.

Fast breakup between 6 and Baltar too, now I see Deanna moving in on him, looks like there might be a thing between those two. Plus its always good to have Baltar display some comic relief in an otherwise dark episode.

Hooray for Gaeta living, the poor guy got the Helo and Sharon treatment.

But next episode, hoooooooooly crap looks like its gonna be big. Road to earth! Cyclons want to make earth their new home! Theres gonna be so many questions, plus it sounds like its a much clearer way home to earth so it brings up how long this show plans on being around, cause if they find earth by the end of, say this season, then what?

[KezatheAscended]

Goodgoodgoodgood.

I would of voted guilty on Jammer too, but I still can't believe they actually killed him. Dunno why that was really a shock...but it was. Like when they actually went thru with the suicide bombing.

Everything is getting crazy. I would not have voted guilty on Gaeta either...so glad he said something. Powerful scene.

The Colonel is letting grief cloud judgement. He wants revenge. It is not justice.

Starbuck is pissing me off...what the hell is she thinking!!!! Can't do that to Sam..ahhhh!!!! I could have really punched her there. She is definitly gonna regret that...

And Ros...with the pardon...that was way unexpected...great though. And great scene with Chief and Gaeta at the end. Emotional...powerful

Even though that was no really action it was a terrific epi...and I was wierded out by Number Six for some reason. Not sure I'm liking her anymore. And Baltar's dream was fraking crazy...

[CaraRose]

I'm not sure I get your point. No, I wouldn't join...but that still doesn't mean that the people who would are "evil". Yeah, it's a poor decision on their part but that doesn't mean that they're horrible human beings...just misguided and naive. That is, unless those people that joined did it merely for the opportunity to kill people because they think it would be fun.

The New Caprican police force was told that they would be keeping relations between the Cylons and humans peaceful, they thought they would be helping their people by eliminating dangerous conflicts that could get them killed. I wouldn't say that is the mark of villainy.

Besides, are the Chinese in that situation even "evil"? I suppose that depends on the eye of the beholder. Let's not forget the reason the Cylons came to New Caprica. If they wanted to just destroy everyone, they easily could have. They came with the purpose to co-exist with the humans, after realizing that their genocide had been a mistake. Did they go about it wrong, you're damn right they did...but isn't that usually the case? Theoretics are a lot easier than reality (just look at the concept of Communism...good on paper...not so good in reality). I think classifying groups into either "good" or "evil" is too simplistic for my taste.

-Stef

This show is about questioning good and evil and realizing that nobody is either. Its all shades of gray. Hell, I don't even think the Cylons are in black and white as evil.

I think here, though, the main issue is the idea of action versus intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. Clearly, the intent of doing harm was not in the collaborators. Collaborators were either trying to help people, or protect themselves and their families. I don't think any of them did so with the intent of doing harm to their people.

At the same time actions were done that did a great deal of harm. Doesn't Connor deserve justice for his son's death. Jammer was directly involved in killing his seven year old. Shouldn't he have to pay for that action, no matter what his intentions? He was part of a group that killed 23 people. Doesn't he have to answer for that? Don't the dead and their survivors scream for someone to be held accountable, for the scales to be evened?

Yes, the circle was about revenge. But the main difference between justice and revenge, honestly, is that revenge is personal, justice is societal revenge. This is why the death penality exists. Why do we kill someone who's convicted of killing someone? Because justice must be served-- somehow, there are scales that are tipped out of balance, and only the death of the killer will set them right. Justice is meant to end the cycles of revenge by taking it out of the hands of the indivuals and putting it in the public to judge. The circle were trying to heal the hurt that was done to them, to get their measure of flesh for flesh. And I could easily argue that they were justified in both wanting and carrying that out. But the problem with revenge being personal is that it tends not to end. What if Jammer had a girlfriend who loved him? Doesn't she deserve the same right to seek her revenge on those who killed him as his murderers had to seek their revenge on him.

Its complicated stuff, and hell, it should be.

[THSEX1138]

Gaius Baltar is the master of the game. I marvel at his methods of manipulation and cunning. There is a moment on the Cylon Basestar where he tells Six "I'm the only one who can make this better." I believe he's very sincere in this statement. His hands are closed as if in prayer, the white robe and the long hair. HE LOOKS LIKE JESUS. I'm rooting for Gaius! The Cylons have made an error in allowing him to get so close. Gaius Baltar will save all of humanity.