Daybreak, Part 3 (421)

[lordofseas]

I just watched the extended version of the final 2/3 episodes (Daybreak 1 and 2 (or 1, 2 and 3 depending on your view) it runs for 2 hours 30 minutes), it's got about 20 minutes extras in it but nothing that actually adds to the story, most of the stuff that was cut out was flashback stuff, including Ellen getting up on the dance floor and doing a strip in the club, and we meet, I think, Baltar's younger brother (although he's refered to as the neighbours geeky child, I think he's his Brother), it does bring a whole new light to the scene where Baltar finds Six in his lounge, the hooker had some S&M gear and his brother was there as well LOL.

It does have some extended fight scenes on the colony (between new and old centurians), but doesn't show the colony dropping into the black hole which was the bit I was hoping it had.

I haven't watched it since it aired and forgot what a powerful episode it was, not shy to say it bought a tear to my eye again.

Indeed, I cried when Laura Roslin died.

[Ian-S]

How'd you [legally] get a copy of the extendedd version?

It's on the 4.5 set.

[HAL2100]

It's on the 4.5 set.

I'll have to hit up Netflix. I'm waiting for a complete boxed set to be released.

[langdonboom]

I love the discussion on here, I went away from it for a while but now that the 4.5 box is out maybe its time to reopen this exchange. Anyway, a lot of people hate what the ending represented, I loved it. But one thing that I think is arguably untrue is that they painted themselves into a storytelling corner that they couldn't get out of and so just fell back on something 'lazy'. If you think of anything beyond a rational explanation for life is 'lazy' then you'll think the show took an 'easy way' out, but to me that's missing the point.

"What exactly is the message they are getting across?"

Here's my take: I think the show is attempting to capture the truly mysterious in life, the things that aren't just hidden from us like "whodunnit" TV shows usually have, in which will be neatly reveled in the third act, they're dramatizing the fact that the things that make up our spirituality, our connection to God or whatever you want to call it/him (the ground of being, the Ultimate, etc) will always be a little mysterious when you try to talk about them, always be somewhat outside of our rational grasp and that is as it should be. Had Starbuck been revealed to be this or that particular entity, I think it really WOULD have been ham-fisted. Instead, this show took a HUGE risk given our rational/technological world and sci-fi in general to suggest she was part of a plan that we'll never completely be able to comprehend with the parts of our minds that want to find pattern and control our external universe -- which is exactly the parts of our minds that make us feel so powerful that we end up creating technology that can kill us. Hence, our need to really ramp up our spiritual evolution to match our technological.

To me, this is incredibly deep storytelling for a television show, even one speaking on the tried-and-true theme of Frankenstein, etc ("our science must be balanced with respect for the balance of nature, God, etc. etc,") since it actually is successful in creating some friction with the very nature of its genre -- the sci-fi drama/thriller. Leaving some things unsatisfying on that level (WHAT is Starbuck, EXACTLY??) actually tends to switch on the other side of the brain that this theme is extolling the virtues of. But you have to be somewhat inclined to go there or else it will just look like poor scriptwriting. I consider the final act of BSG to be like the ultimate sci-fi Zen koan meant to scramble your expectations and leave you reveling in a modicum of logical confusion and buzzing with a feeling of being a part of a larger whole - as in Baltar's speech which loved and was to me a completely natural and surprisingly satisfying payoff to the Opera House vision.

RDM himself has said they had a more 'logical' explanation for Starbuck but didn't think it was as strongly dramatizing the theme they were going for all series (God, morality, the balance of nature - it was there all along) and so chose this version, which I totally appreciate. Again, to me the biggest surprise to most viewers seems to be something like in answering what is Head Six, the show had the balls to say - she's exactly what she's said she was, an 'Angel of God' (though I also wouldn't get too hung up on the Judeo-Christian theology that those terms are usually associated with, I think of it more as a looser translation of both words...)

I thought it was strong to the end, including the 150K year flash-forward, which I also loved to death, and brought me to tears. WE'RE THEIR DESCENDANTS! Now can we learn this lesson the show's tried to illustrate in time not to nuke OURselves?

[HAL2100]

RDM himself has said they had a more 'logical' explanation for Starbuck but didn't think it was as strongly dramatizing the theme they were going for all series (God, morality, the balance of nature - it was there all along) and so chose this version, which I totally appreciate. Again, to me the biggest surprise to most viewers seems to be something like in answering what is Head Six, the show had the balls to say - she's exactly what she's said she was, an 'Angel of God' (though I also wouldn't get too hung up on the Judeo-Christian theology that those terms are usually associated with, I think of it more as a looser translation of both words...)

So did Daddy Ronny reveal what the 'logical' explanation of Starbuck was?

[langdonboom]

So did Daddy Ronny reveal what the 'logical' explanation of Starbuck was?

Uh, no. That's the whole point - to encourage the use of your non-rational brain areas for a moment.

[g.o.d]

So did Daddy Ronny reveal what the 'logical' explanation of Starbuck was?

Jane Espenson did

[Nemises]

i hate helo.

had to say it again for some reason.

[HAL2100]

Jane Espenson did

And did she say what the logical explanation was?

[g.o.d]

And did she say what the logical explanation was?

she said those Virtual Beings were some advanced race who was interested in a human race.

and according to a Final Five comic book, they were Lords of Kobol

[HAL2100]

she said those Virtual Beings were some advanced race who was interested in a human race.

and according to a Final Five comic book, they were Lords of Kobol

Makes sense. I still like the idea of an very, very ancient AI trying to redeem itself for a genocide that it committed by shepherding the human race across the eons.

[Angela V]

So glad I bought the box set. I'd have to run away from spoilers even more because they were slipping out everywhere on the net. Because so much has been said already, I'll be brief.

That was FRAKING Awesome. For me this was the best series finale for a sci-fi show. I had the chance to buy seasons 1-4.0 a few months for 4.5 was released so got to rewatch the series. I'm glad I did because it made watching the ending so much better with everything fresh in my mind.

Got Caprica ready to watch next.

[Confessor Rahl]

I have had nothing but love for this show over the years, and in fact have been borderline obsessed with it. However, I must say this finale, while good in some respects, was fundamentally flawed to me. They go on this journey, ride with conflict and hatred, endure misery beyond anything anyone ever experienced, and it all ends with warm and fuzzy "can't we call just get along" human-cylon nonsense. While I was disappointed that I did not get any closure with Starbuck/Lee/whatever the hell she really was, my main problem was that the entire episode was just very anti-climactic. I just felt there should have been... something more. I have no idea what, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

[HAL2100]

I have had nothing but love for this show over the years, and in fact have been borderline obsessed with it. However, I must say this finale, while good in some respects, was fundamentally flawed to me. They go on this journey, ride with conflict and hatred, endure misery beyond anything anyone ever experienced, and it all ends with warm and fuzzy "can't we call just get along" human-cylon nonsense. While I was disappointed that I did not get any closure with Starbuck/Lee/whatever the hell she really was, my main problem was that the entire episode was just very anti-climactic. I just felt there should have been... something more. I have no idea what, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

I think that I must have seen a few fan-produced episodes because as I seem to recall the whole Human-Cylon - 'Can't we all get along' - storyline was pervasive throughout the last season.

[Sp!der]

i still love the ending and i wasnt that dissappointed with the ended like with sg1...