Daybreak, Part 3 (421)

[toby1kanobi]

So there are presumably still a bunch of skinjobs out there, that can't reproduce.

But just as there were some human survivors on Caprica, there must be others on Picon, Tauron, Virgon, Gemenon, Sagitaron, Arion, Libron, Scorpion, Leon, Canceron, Aquarion. Maybe the remaining skinjobs go there to figure out how to reproduce...

And what became of starbuck's ovary?

There's room for more stories, I think...

ovum not ovary, she destroyed everything in site on her way out

[toby1kanobi]

Detrius is wrong, if HeadCaprica is correct.
I know the following is taboo for BSG fans, but:
150,000 years is a long time. During that time, those Centurions that use ships with living tissue and blood, have many adventures and "thoughts," they develop over the centuries, using tissue, beings, and technology. Some "things" happen, ideas get changed, and in time they enhance their thoughts as a collective.
Meanwhile HeadCaprica noted to HeadBalter on current-Earth that she believed mankind had a chance to develop differently on this planet, that Earth would be the radical that would continue to simply use technology and not remake the conflict of the past. If she is correct, then when humans (or whatever we are) on Earth enter deep space with FTL drives, they will do so for different purposes than defense, they will unite to simply go exploring on starships rather than fighting on battlestars.
At some point a starship of this Earth-led fleet will encounter the descendants of the Centurions, who have become bent on delivering order to the universe with a collective mentality and an incorporation of cybernetic technological enhancements in humanoids.
(Do I really have to put a name on what the Centurions have become?)

WE ARE THE BORG lol

[HAL2100]

WE ARE THE BORG lol

HEY! I already concluded that Galen was the founder of the Scotts which centuries later led to the birth of one Montgomery Scott who was endowed with his ancestor's knack for engineering triumphs and that the Centurions went on to eventually evolve in to the Borg.

[wontgetfooledagain]

When the label 'advanced' is used to refer to an 'advanced' civilization, you have to consider what 'advanced' is meaning and your own frame of reference. When you consider the Egyptians who built the landing platforms that many consider to be nothing more than tombs (:: snicker : or the Maya ruins, you can easily argue that they were 'advanced' without glimmering shiny buildings and cell phones. There is the notion that as a civilization advances, the tendency is to actually become simpler. Modern day USA is very advanced, but overall we're a much simpler society than 200 years ago - the average person doesn't toil from dusk to dawn to tend to the crops, cattle and children. Star Trek: Insurrection provides a perfect, albeit fictional, example as well.

In what way is toiling from dusk to dawn tending to crops, cattle and children less simple than modern-day USA? It sounds like you've got thinks backwards to me, because as society "progresses" it hasn't done anything but get more complex. The things we learn in school are more complex, the economy is more complex, the government is more complex, the technology is more complex. To be frank, I see very little simplicity, except in simple understandings of complex matters.

one way to look at it

but if head six is evil why lead baltar down a positive road

The combination of good and evil leads to something beyond good and evil?

ok, Baltar says "you now HE dunt like being called that" then we have a pause and he says "silly me.... silly me". most here think he is reffering to himself, whereas to me the silly me line would sugggest there was something about his first statement that he got wrong i.e the HE, could the god there on about be a woman?, maybe they are reffering to starbuck, as the stainch non believer she is she would be very frakked off being called god would she not

Or maybe we never saw God and God is a genderless, immaterial being that becomes manifest in the angels, Starbuck, Roslin, Hera, and so on.

I have to agree with you here. They should give us all the answers except they know they do not have those answers.

Writers very rarely know the answers to all the questions they raise. Why is ambiguity such a hard thing for so many people?

I understand the appeal of deus ex machina for the writers; it’s an easy way to wrap up loose ends without having to exert much effort. I also understand that the ending will resonate well in the show’s core market. The US is by far the world’s most religious developed nation and an even greater percentage of Americans believe in angels and ghosts than believe in god(s). The prospect of a relatively detached prime-mover deity seconded by angels is a good fit for a disturbingly large percentage of US society.

You know that spiritual/religious outlooks are common across the globe, don't you?

Settling on Earth without metal tools or antibiotics? They are all going to be dead within a year. These folks don't have the required knowledge to be a viable Stone Age society! Athena and Helo became hunters? Using stone arrowheads? They'd starve before they learned to work stone and hunt as primitive people did.

I think that in the long run, it is more practical for them to give up technology for awhile, because it wasn't the scientists and other important people that made it to earth -- it was just whoever happened to be around and those people don't necessarily have the necessary technological know-how (nor do they even really have the equipment needed to rebuild technological society) to rebuild everything. Imagine how many people there are in the world today that have all the technical and theoretical knowledge about all the technological things we have today -- it has only gotten more complex, so if suddenly all the people that have that technical and theoretical knowledge suddenly disappeared (along with all their writings) we would suddenly go into a dark ages of sorts.

Yea! The Cylons got away with murdering 20 billion people and making 12 planets uninhabitable. They live happily ever after! Lead by the top butchers, Caprica and Baltar. God is Great!

The Cylons got away with murdering twenty billion people? Are you watching the same show I'm watching? The Colony was destroyed, the only Cylons that got away were the rebel Cylons. If this show had any point to it at all, it was that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind -- repentance and reconciliation are the way forward.

[LanDodger]

One thing I forgot to say, that got me thinking before the whole Kara and lee scene

where she says goodbye to Anders and he says

"See you on the other side"

that made me smile when i figured it out lol

[wontgetfooledagain]

I really didn't like the religious ending, they coulda done alot better. For a science fiction TV show, aside from the space ships and robots, there was not a damn science fiction aspect in it. I was expecting time travel through the black hole they kept talking about in the cylon colony. Woulda preferred that over "god".

I guess I understand now why it is that everyone complains about this show not being "sci-fi." It's because it's just a show about people in space and not about tired and old plot devices. The show may have used a few of those plot devices a time or two, but in the end, it is about the human experience, not just awesome CGI.

[neonfiuxx]

wheres my post

[Seastallion]

Oddly enough, I had actually predicted this ending for the series very near the beginning as at least one very possible end to it. Not all the exact details of course, but that they would end up being 'our ancient astronaut ancestors', or something like that. Kudos to me. wow. I thought it was okay, although if it were me, I'd have preferred to keep the tech. You can start over without going stone age. Logic would suggest that technology would be rebuilt in time, so I see little reason in simply delaying it and in so doing forgetting the reasons for having abandoning technology to begin with. If they'd kept their tech, and maintained their history, they'd have at least a warning of the past not to repeat certain mistakes. Oh well.

Oh, and we're all human/pre-human/cylon hybrids. cool.

I do think the mitochondrial Eve is very interesting and that part is REAL. I remember reading that Mitochondria may have been a seperate organism that essentially incorporated itself into our biology, and that is why it has a DNA of its own, seperate from general human DNA. Also, considering the fact that we are so unlike any of the other 'apes' on many levels in terms of anatomy. I personally think there is more to our 'story' than we know. Not suggesting that the end of BSG was 'real', just some food for thought. The biblical and mythological references were always a part of BSG (old and new) and I don't think the name 'Adama' was ever coincidental on that point.

I felt the show ended on a consistent note with the mytholgy of BSG, and for those that watched any of the old BSG, the 'angels' weren't really a departure from the past either. In the old BSG there were apparently powerful beings who had taken a hand in guiding humanity, and Starbuck had crossed paths with them, then too. Except the old Starbuck ended up having a 'superhuman' son with one of those 'angelic' beings. That's certainly different...

[pjt]

So we can deduce from the finale that the only survivors of the Attack on the Colonies and the members of the Rebel Cylon fleet were all actually a bunch of hairdressers, account executives, film makers, security guards and telephone sanitisers.

"I'm referencing documents that you may not have access to."

It took me some time to get it, but LOL!

[Pharaoh Atem]

so

my personal opnions on who the angel were

head six

head baltar

head piano player -kara's father

kara thrace -corporeal angel

head leoben -malstorm

sam anders -angel/final five

[Briangate78]

55 members viewing and hardly any posting

Come to SCI FI.com, have like 2000 posts on one thread, with another 1000 here and there. Going out of my MIND!!

Anyway, this is what you get when you plan a series finale. What I loved about this episode is that the first half was plot-driven, and the 2nd half was all about the characters.

My only misgiving is how Starbuck turned out to be an angel. I thought it was lame. Very lame.

But the Roslyn death made up for that. So I would give the ep a 9.9999999/10 only because of the Starbuck ending who I tought could of been more and with no explanation on how she became this angel with this knowledge.

[pjt]

The Frakkin’ Finale -- lame ending for an otherwise great show

I understand the appeal of deus ex machina for the writers; it’s an easy way to wrap up loose ends without having to exert much effort. I also understand that the ending will resonate well in the show’s core market. The US is by far the world’s most religious developed nation and an even greater percentage of Americans believe in angels and ghosts than believe in god(s). The prospect of a relatively detached prime-mover deity seconded by angels is a good fit for a disturbingly large percentage of US society.

<snippity>

For a show that had been so hard hitting it was embarrassing to see the writers take the coward’s way out. So much of the series dealt with the realistic weight of real responsibility in the real world. But never fear -- there are actually angels out there nudging humanity in the sanctified direction of God’s Plan. And so a great show dissolved into a puddle of spiritualistic dreck.

I'm an atheist from Central Europe, and liked this episode and the whole show immensely. So there you are...

[pjt]

(Do I really have to put a name on what the Centurions have become?)

Somebody already did.

[Platschu]

Why did they give up their civilization? That was so unlogic... They betrayed the 12 Colonies. But later Baltar said he will make a farm. So what?

The best idea was Hera became the mitchodrial great-great-greatmother of every human. So technically the other 38K survivors lived for nothing.

So this whole savannah episode was a big disappointment for me. I expected better solution.

[Pharaoh Atem]

The best idea was Hera became the mitchodrial great-great-greatmother of every human. So technically the other 38K survivors lived for nothing.

i found it impossible that all the humans on earth came from hera. i think it was stated that she was the oldest human found and she was mitchodrial eve.

but really logically the 38K surviors are the great great grand parents of the current human race. not just hera./

that's how i'm choosing to see it