Sometimes A Great Notion (411)

[Jeffala]

I was laughing when dee killed herself

Wow. I had a mini-freakout when she killed herself. I was trying to convince myself for 5 minutes that someone else had snuck in and killed her. I was genuinely shocked.

[Skydiver]

it was definitely not foreshadowed in any way.

usually there's some 'gimme' action. some interaction between the characters, some foreshadowing iwth a gun, some 'suicides are up amongst the fleet' then you see dee with her gun....things like that that telegraph intentions.

didn't do that here, which is what makes the show fun to watch, little to no telegraphing of upcoming actions

[Lantien84]

Wow I have to say I'm very impressed by the acting, and the show in general more than I have been since the first season. That said I don't think I will ever watch these episodes after there first showing there just too sad and messed up. Great TV but its just not in a place I really don't care to go. I want to know how the story ends but once I know that I'm happy to put this book down for good.

Have to agree with that sentiment. The entire series has been an unending nightmare, its like watching a train wreck that you can't turn away from. I was very nearly at my limit with Razor, but I'm going to stick it out and see how it ends, doubt it will be a happy ending, in fact the way the show is progressing a bitter-sweet ending might even be wishful thinking.

[LoneStar1836]

it was definitely not foreshadowed in any way.

usually there's some 'gimme' action. some interaction between the characters, some foreshadowing iwth a gun, some 'suicides are up amongst the fleet' then you see dee with her gun....things like that that telegraph intentions.

didn't do that here, which is what makes the show fun to watch, little to no telegraphing of upcoming actions

Yeah, I didn't see it coming.

Though I did find her over happiness after she got back to Galactica rather bizarre. It should have raised suspicion that something was up, but after seeing the "previously on" with all the Lee/Dee replay, I was like please don't dredge all that up again on the show...so I was thinking more that direction than Dee offing herself out of despair and hopelessness. So for me it was misdirection.


Her death was quite shocking. Though I get why she did it. Even though she always seemed like the happiest/most optimistic person on the ship. So I won't say it was a wasted death just for pure shock value as there was meaning/impact behind her death.

[Jeffala]

Her death was quite shocking. Though I get why she did it. Even though she always seemed like the happiest/most optimistic person on the ship. So I won't say it was a wasted death just for pure shock value as there was meaning/impact behind her death.

Yeah. If the person who always sees the silver lining can get so broken and lost that she sees the only way out is to kill herself, it tells a lot about the morale of the fleet.

[jaredh]

I think I'm starting to see where this is going...

Here are the 12 cylons:

Cavil, Six, Sharon, Leoben, Doral, Simon, D'anna (the 7)
Tigh, Ellen, Tyrol, Anders, Torry (the 5)

Has no one noticed the Sci-Fi site lists all of these as cast and 11 non-cylons?

Adama, Roslin, Baltar, Helo, Cally, Dee, Gaeta, Lee, Romo, Zarek, Kara

This parallel makes me wonder...is that 12th human reference Billy or (more likely) Cottle?

So the chronology of events that everyone tends to accept appears to be:

1 - LoK create the cylons 1.0
2 - Cylons 1.0 rebel destroy kobol
3 - 13 tribes (12 LoK and 1 Cylon) go off to settle other places
4 - Cylons 1.0 settle Earth, 12 Tribes settle colonies
5 - LoK or something from the colonies finds Earth, wipes it out, some cylons escape (5 or 12, TBD...but 12 being the central number, seems more likely)
6 - The remaining member of the Cylons 1.0 find the Cylons 2.0 that the colonies built
7 - the series starts not long after

Now, consder the personalities of the humans verus our 12 dear cylons. Alot of the humans and cylons appear to have matching models:

Adama --> Cavil (defiant real leader)
Helo --> Sharon (both tied from early on)
Baltar --> Six (both tied from the start)
Zarack --> Leoben (both whack jobs)
Cottle --> Simon (both medical)
Cally --> Tyrol (tied)
Kara --> Tigh (tied alot at the beginning, both short tempered, effective leaders when necessary, albeit undependable)
Romo --> Ellen (the silent ones...always around, lurking...slipping in at the best/worst time)
Lee --> Anders (both bold, brazen, powerful characters, natural leaders)
Dee --> D'anna (both lose hope)
Gaeta --> Doral (strong assist types)
Roslin --> Torry (manipulative, controlling, wanna-be leaders)

With this type of parallel, it starts leading me towards wondering if the Cylons (1.0) fashioned themselves (or were fashioned by their creators) after the original Lords of Kobol...and the 12 key human figures on Galactica are either the 12 LoK or some manifestation of them. The whole kara thing really starts to call into question her humanity...and thus everyone else's. What if there is a missing step?

It all keeps coming back to these 12 Lords of Kobol. Twelve, twelve, twelve. It's all over the place in this story. These 12 lords, and their offspring/creations, are the story. How the original 12 interact with their descendants, whether they are immortals playing creation games, is all yet to be fully realized....but I'm highly suspecting we are going towards these 12 Lords playing a big hand in the cycle of life...that they manifest themselves in every cycle inside that cycle's beings, and either consciously or unconsciously direct the flow of life. Based on all the things that have come into place for all these characters to survive to this point, one has to start to wonder if something bigger than them isn't shaping the outcome.

The fact Leoben ran from Kara, showing fear for the first time from any of the 7 cylons over anything other than death is significant. She is more than human, more than even cylon as they know cylon to be....she is a Lord of Kobol manifestation....something that possibly cannot even die, just be reborn (my current theory is that the LoK don't die, they are just reborn into the current cycle of life)

[madk99]

no,

Wedge Antilles, who happened to be the only 'minor' character that made it through all 3 star wars movies (the first ones, not the latter ones)

thus he ended up being a constant observer to the making of history. the 'little guy' that's in it with the 'greats' that has a first hand POV to the making of history.

Ummmmmm. Yes, I know. (He was Rosencrantz and/or Gildenstern)

[entil2001]

The previous episode ended with the Colonials and renegade Cylons standing amidst the ruins of a world called Earth, just moments after the remnants of Humanity celebrated their potential deliverance. The better part of this episode is devoted to the psychological fallout of that crushing blow, and the results are stunning, to say the least.

This is not a happy episode. In fact, this could be one of the most depressing hours of television in years. Not one person is happy, not one person is remotely satisfied, and not one person is left unscathed. What makes this such a powerful and perfect episode is that the audience can understand the characters' reactions. In a sense, we're all reeling from the realization that Earth is not what it was supposed to be, and that there is no obvious direction for the future. Worse, they all know that Father Cavil's faction of the Cylons will be showing up sooner or later, and there will be no magical resolution to that problem.

Dee's suicide is shocking in the moment it happens, but after re-watching the episode, the writers did a very good job of leading up to it. Dee's loss of hope is palpable from the very beginning, and her "date" with Lee seems as much about saying goodbye as it is about pushing Lee in the right direction before checking out. If it doesn't seem to quite make sense, I think that's intentional; Dee is not in her right mind, so it's hard to grasp her rationale in detail. It's simply obvious that the discovery of a formerly Cylon-populated, ruined husk of Earth annihilated her mental stability.

Dee is essentially our window into the psychological torture experienced by the entire Colonial fleet. Her death is the break between the façade of civility and the unbearable truth. Adama completes the picture; those who look at Dee's decision and wonder if that's what they should do as well. Frankly, I'm shocked that there weren't more suicides. If Adama had pushed Tigh into killing him, I imagine it would have all been over.

As it is, there's now a massive power vacuum. Roslin has all but checked out and the primary religion is under serious question. Lee could make a case that he should stand in Roslin's place, but I expect Zarek to make a move sooner or later. After all, he was the one who pushed Lee into the limelight in the first place; he has definite ambitions. I also expect Baltar's new religion to become a lot more prominent in the days to come, as the Colonials cast about for something to believe in.

Amidst the crushing despair, there were amazing revelations. Nearly everyone is taking Earth for granted, but it may not be what it seems. Baltar and the others conclude that the thirteenth tribe consisted of Cylons, both Centurions and "skinjobs", and that they arrived on this particular world and called it "Earth". Does that mean that it is, in fact, Earth?

It's quite possible, given the cyclic nature of the story, that thousands of years ago, they were also searching for Earth, hunted down by their own Cylons. Who's to say they didn't end up finding a burned-out Earth themselves? They could have simply found a new world, called that Earth in memory of the "original". And then, like now, they could have gone about the business of merging Humans and Cylons into a race of beings like Hera and Nicholas.

After all, the bones were Cylon, but why does that necessarily mean that they were Cylons as we know them? They, too, appear to have lost the ability to resurrect, or the survival of the Final Five wouldn't have been so extraordinary. And because Tigh and the others were known since they were younger, and they aged like normal human beings, it stands to reason that their own resurrection was not in the usual Cylon style.

This harkens back to one of my original theories, one I've mentioned several times: that the Final Five are Human/Cylon hybrids from the previous cycle who managed to persist until the next cycle. How that happened is still to be determined, but it must have involved some kind of regenerative program. Perhaps it was something that the Five sent into space before the end came. One might suspect that the nuclear destruction of Earth came from the previous cycle's analogue to Father Cavil and his Cylon faction.

Something tells me that the restoration of the Final Five is directly connected to Kara's restoration. Kara was dead, her Viper destroyed. That being the case, how was she reborn? Everyone assumes that Earth is completely dead, but someone (or something) had to resurrect Kara and her Viper. Perhaps something that didn't see or know the difference between man and machine? Something that was programmed or designed to recreate members of a Human/Cylon hybrid species?

If so, the whole question of the fifth Cylon's identity becomes moot. That individual is no longer a factor; how they came to be in this time is a lot more important. Kara's very existence is more important than Ellen Tigh's true nature. Piecing together the puzzle of what the Final Five really are, how they survived, and how and when they came to intersect with the current Cylon population is the major mystery to be resolved.

Not that the question of the final Cylon wasn't front and center. This is another aspect of Dee's suicide; they were clearly using Dee as a red herring for the revelation of the fifth. The same applies to Kara (though, admittedly, I believe she's connected to the Final Five in some way). Just the fact that the writers were able to keep the central mysteries front and center, while dealing with the despair of the fleet was such depth, is a testimony to the excellence of the episode.

From the script to the performances to the direction to the score, everything came together to make this one of the best episodes of the series in a very long time. This is easily the best episode of the season, even topping the powerful "Revelations". What makes this truly astounding is the realization that there are nine more episodes to go until the end.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

[medegnosj]

I think it's possible that we Earth humans are *all* cylons, and have since been classified as such by our Children To the Stars: The Twelve Colonies.

Theory:

The "cylons" in this time period of BSG are originally *us* (homo sapiens sapiens).

The "humans" in this time period are our children living throughout the Twelve Colonies (homo sapiens colonius)-- probably evolved, through selective breeding and clonal manipulation, to be slightly different enough from H. sapiens sapiens to be detectable when their DNA is tested.

The "revered Final Five" are The Original Clones-- clones of a select few member of our H. sapiens sapiens family, originally created sans cybernetics (if they actually had them at all) by Old Earth "cylon" creators (scientists? business moguls? BOTH??)

The 'regular' seven human-like models are either: a) cybernetically-enhanced copies of individuals from the later H. sapiens colonius tree of humanity, or b) cybernetically-enhanced copies of 'stored' individuals from the earlier H. sapiens sapiens line. Either way, they've been created as cybernetic versions of seven differring aspects of 'current' humanity-- albeit complete with glowing spines noticable during the practice of, uhm, certain activities...

I think that somewhere during the multi-thousand-year exodus from Earth, the name "cylon" in BSG's timeline came to mean anyone or anything NOT being of H. sapiens colonius make-up-- which, unfortunately, also included their long-lost brothers from a missing 13th colony, who in turn may actually wind up being their frakkin' long-lost PARENTS.

Toss in a few mechanical beasties created at different times and in different conflicts, and the statement " Kill that frakkin' cylon!!" becomes nothing more than word salad, and "cylon" could be used on both man and machince at the same time... and from both sides..!

As to what the name "cylon" meant to the people of old pre-attack Earth, or to the people of the failed colony of Kobol many years afterward- well, who knows..?

[HAL2100]

The fact that Starbuck will 'lead them all to their death' doesn't mean the end of life or destruction. It could be figurative in that she leads them to end their preconceptions of things and what not.

[gforce99]

Can't they just go back to New Caprica or even Kobol now?

They weren't radioactive and the only reason they left was that the Cylons showed up. Now that we are one big happy family, thats not a problem.

Right?

[L-S]

Space Humans find Earth, see it's a pile of rubble. Feel crampy. Pretty girl cries, laughs, dies. Not happiness! Not happiness!

Shocking stuff, painful. Poor Dee. Poor us! What do we, the viewer, take from this?

Starbuck, our hero, our anarchist drunk, is a tool, a machine, a re-animated gollum of some sort. We cheered for her, hoped for her, spurred her on, wanted her to succeed, enjoyed her excess, and were moved by her pain.

And she's a frog. Or a dog, or a blender. Or 'toaster.'

It's a bit of viciousness that the producer/writer Moore is putting us through. I have a certain respect for him, as he's making a superlative art/theater. Chekhov is no fun to read, either.

Critical notes:

Don't like Ellen Tigh as 5th (hidden human-type gollum cylon).


What, they all have to know each other? All have to be in the same family?

Would've been more interesting to have it be a nobody on a previously unremarkable ship.

Too much soapy nonsense, too much coincidence, too much 'all of the same.' Like in the season 2.5 episode, the terrorist stand-off in the bar - it's Lee Adama, Kara Thrace, Billy the niceboy, Dee - the gang's always too much here.

How many insane things can happen to one person? Or one group of people? I don't favor the strains of dramatic credulity.

Fair criticisms. Praises abound - brave, excoriating, soul-searching, scraping the dry bed at the bottom of the character's beings. Many thanks for a grand series, and a tremendously upsetting episode.

[madk99]

The fact that Starbuck will 'lead them all to their death' doesn't mean the end of life or destruction. It could be figurative in that she leads them to end their preconceptions of things and what not.

Exactly, Kinda like the upcoming Mayan calendar 2012 thing. The end is just the end of this cycle and the circle with turn again.

Although this was a dark (but excellent) episode I do think there will be just enough "happy ending" in the series to leave us with just enough warm fuzzies at its conclusion. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying RDM et al. will be unrealistic and load sunshine up our tailpipes. But he and the writers have done such a fantastic job of mixing up the good and the bad. He front loads every happy feeling in the world at finding Earth then pulls out the rug. Oppositely, we were emotionally drained as the RTF was physically drained in 33. Then he throws us a ray of sunshine in the final shot as Roslin adds one. He even gave us the completely unrealistic but deliciously satisfying finish of not one, not two, but THREE basestars with the demise of the Peggy.

I think TPTB understand the psyche of the audience and what we need. Real life is messy, fleeting, chaotic, sometimes ugly, sometimes beatiful, but always unpredictable. At the end of the day a person wants to say "yeah, but it ended well."

[Jeffala]

Can't they just go back to New Caprica or even Kobol now?

They weren't radioactive and the only reason they left was that the Cylons showed up. Now that we are one big happy family, thats not a problem.

Right?

Except that Cavil's group still wants to wipe the humans out of existence.

[Blackened]

I liked Sam saying "let us not talk falsely now the hours getting late" from all along the watchtower. It was like a commentary on the fact this really is the end of the series - "We're nearing the end of the series, and we're not gonna screw around".