Guess What's Coming To Dinner (407)

[AeronPrometheus]

u know, I thought of that mobile phone analogy - however is there's a fundamental difference : when you call someone your call is explicitly directed at that person. it is they you seek & no one else. hence the need for "hubs" to identify caller & callee

a more valid analogy would be a Talkie-Walkie broadcasting a signal for any nearby (and correctly tuned) TW to pick up. a skinj doesn't care where he or she uploads - any properly equiped & functional resship in a relative vicinity is all it takes

*shrugs*, I'm leaning towards the "we don't yet see the whole picture" idea and the Rez Hub serves more than a tertiary purpose.

Spoiler:

"OG hybrid" ??
if you're talking about that old-man hybrid, wasn't he a construction of those older cylons ?

Yes. Remember Razor?

Spoiler:

Boomer said that when the return for decommissioning signal was given not all the old Cylons came back.

maybe basestars also have resurrection equipment but nowhere near enough resources (clones) to handle wide-scale resurrections (like another basestar blowing up)

Yeah, that would be the job of a couple Rez Ships probably, but it's logical to assume (And I swear they mentioned this on a 3rd season episode) that they'd be able to pick up stragglers straight from a Base Star.

then is 7 of 9 also a computer ?

No, Seven is a cyborg. A lesser one now, but some of the tech had to be left in place to keep her alive. She started human and was given implants. Boomer was from the start; software in an artificially grown body. Big difference.

[SoulReaver]

No, Seven is a cyborg. A lesser one now, but some of the tech had to be left in place to keep her alive. She started human and was given implants. Boomer was from the start; software in an artificially grown body. Big difference.

a cyborg is a technologically enhanced organism so Boomer pretty much qualifies... Boomer may be able to control computers & broadcast her memories & all the rest of it thanks to...whatever circuitry...but at the core she's still organic if not human. technically speaking she's even less of a cyborg than 7 of 9 for at least one reason : her "mechanical/organic" ratio is way, way lower than Seven's (we can see that, and also for the fact that even closer scrutiny cannot tell the difference between cylons & humans : whatever silica pathways or machinery the cylons have is in infinitesimal quantity). also Seven needs her borg implants to live which means the technological components are so intertwined with her organic self that they might as well be be considered an integral part of her (ie. she's even "more" than just a cyborg as the implants' purpose is more than mere enhancement), whereas for the cylons...we don't know :| (what happens if the embedded circuitry is somehow removed - do they just live as humans unable to download or are they too unable to survive ?)

the fact the Seven was born whereas Boomer not is kinda irrelevant (what about those borg babies in TnG ? they couldn't have been born, and the nanites & implants or whatever were included as they were grown so they started off as cyborgs). if a "pure" human were grown instead of born (SW clone trooper-style) would that make it any less human than one who came into the world in ole fashion ? (in a way clone troopers would appear even less humans than the cylons as the cylons as least can override their conditioning - even Boomer did, to a degree - whereas the troopers, despite not being cyborgs, cannot)
heck even the colonial military's troopers appear less human. they make excellent drones with little if any free will (must be some good "programming" eh ?) - they're more like centurions, lol

[Deckker]

Depending on the nature of the systems design, they may not have the ability to build a network of such redundancy for a network of such a scale. They do have a limited range still.

The Cylon Homeworld, probably does have a resurrections system. However due to the distance they have traveled. I think its safe to say they have travelled some 1,000 light years already. Not a unreasonable number if you think about it. They would need to make their central systems mobile and the cost of making several mobile HQ is prohibitive.

So My guess, is that when the Cyclons decided to move to Earth, they spend an enormous amount of resources to uproot everything and make them mobile and move. The undertaking of any long -term voyage is surely limited by the lack of raw materials .

While the human fleet was rag tag, the cyclon prepared themselves for a long journey.

This is my thought, in the end, there is not enough genetic material to repopulate the human race, the remanding genetic will come from the cyclons.

[Deckker]

dp

[AeronPrometheus]

a cyborg is a technologically enhanced organism so Boomer pretty much qualifies... Boomer may be able to control computers & broadcast her memories & all the rest of it thanks to...whatever circuitry...but at the core she's still organic if not human. technically speaking she's even less of a cyborg than 7 of 9 for at least one reason : her "mechanical/organic" ratio is way, way lower than Seven's (we can see that, and also for the fact that even closer scrutiny cannot tell the difference between cylons & humans : whatever silica pathways or machinery the cylons have is in infinitesimal quantity). also Seven needs her borg implants to live which means the technological components are so intertwined with her organic self that they might as well be be considered an integral part of her (ie. she's even "more" than just a cyborg as the implants' purpose is more than mere enhancement), whereas for the cylons...we don't know :| (what happens if the embedded circuitry is somehow removed - do they just live as humans unable to download or are they too unable to survive ?)

the fact the Seven was born whereas Boomer not is kinda irrelevant (what about those borg babies in TnG ? they couldn't have been born, and the nanites & implants or whatever were included as they were grown so they started off as cyborgs). if a "pure" human were grown instead of born (SW clone trooper-style) would that make it any less human than one who came into the world in ole fashion ? (in a way clone troopers would appear even less humans than the cylons as the cylons as least can override their conditioning - even Boomer did, to a degree - whereas the troopers, despite not being cyborgs, cannot)
heck even the colonial military's troopers appear less human. they make excellent drones with little if any free will (must be some good "programming" eh ?) - they're more like centurions, lol

Okay... Semantics aside the origins of Seven and Boomer are starkly different.

Yeah you can pretty much be liberal when labeling what they are when all is said and done and I agree that it's the viewpoint that sets them apart.

(We have a nice collection of "drones" of our own waging war in the desert right now)

Cylons began and slaves, they broke away, created their own elite humans to replace the sentient Centurions (Psychologically, they needed to take the place of their human oppressors), they built their own slaves the new Centurions,

Spoiler:

and now those are sentient and on the verge of breaking away.

As far as the show is concerned, they're computers because humans can step back and look at their evolutionary path and go "We started this whole thing". It's a parallel to what we are and what -we- are evolving into. What is out there right now stepping back, looking at us, and going "We started this whole thing"?

P.S. Seven of Nine was not incubated on a Borg ship, she was captured at a young age on her parent's exploration ship; the Raven. I'm so pathetic that I remember all this.

[SoulReaver]

yeah Anika & her parents were assimilated because the multispectral cloaking on their shuttle failed for a brief moment allowing the borg cube they were trailing to detect them
/ST-g33k & proud of it

btw we're computers too (ok so we're born & we reproduce but then again do do the replicators -)

[AeronPrometheus]

multispectral cloaking

That was such a cheap plot device. Why couldn't they be inventive and have the ship ducking in and out of an asteroid field? Cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.

...Waaay off topic (Proud Trekkie for 15 years)

[Jeffala]

That was such a cheap plot device. Why couldn't they be inventive and have the ship ducking in and out of an asteroid field? Cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.

...Waaay off topic (Proud Trekkie for 15 years)

The Raven didn't have a cloaking device. It had "multi-adaptive shielding" that preventing the cubes' sensors from detecting the ship.

[SoulReaver]

they called it 'multispectral shielding' but technically it was a cloak, and - afaik - only a cloak (shield => protection against weapons, cloak => protection against sensors)

cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.

in Dark Frontier iirc Queeno said they'd assimilated that tech which means borg sensors can now defeat it
and since that tech was meant to be effective against mostly borg sensors the borg have no use for it

besides cloaking ain't exactly the borg's MO
the 800-pound gorilla does what it wants & lets everyone know it. it doesn't need to hide nor does it want to

[AeronPrometheus]

they called it 'multispectral shielding' but technically it was a cloak, and - afaik - only a cloak (shield => protection against weapons, cloak => protection against sensors)

in Dark Frontier iirc Queeno said they'd assimilated that tech which means borg sensors can now defeat it
and since that tech was meant to be effective against mostly borg sensors the borg have no use for it

besides cloaking ain't exactly the borg's MO
the 800-pound gorilla does what it wants & lets everyone know it. it doesn't need to hide nor does it want to

Hehe

Q: Where does a 64 cubic kilometer Borg cube travel?
A: Anywhere it wants.

But if their MO is to be a gorilla, then why the spheres, tactical cubes, scout cubes, etc...?

[SoulReaver]

But if their MO is to be a gorilla, then why the spheres, tactical cubes, scout cubes, etc...?

a gorilla doesn't have to justify itself either

besides playing gorilla doesn't preclude doing it in style



anyway the tactical cubes could be the result of their confrontation with 8472 (those "bioguns" were effective against borg shields and it was most likely the 1st time they encountered an energy-weapon to which they couldn't adapt) so they started putting armour plating on their cubes..

[AeronPrometheus]

a gorilla doesn't have to justify itself either

besides playing gorilla doesn't preclude doing it in style



anyway the tactical cubes could be the result of their confrontation with 8472 (those "bioguns" were effective against borg shields and it was most likely the 1st time they encountered an energy-weapon to which they couldn't adapt) so they started putting armour plating on their cubes..

Not a very enthusiastic upgrade... Especially since the bulk of the fleet remained standard cubes that future Janeway happily torpedo'd. In fact it wasn't an "upgrade" at all, they simply started making different, smaller cubes along slide the classic.

For those of you just now joining the conversation, this thread has been officially hijacked.

[SoulReaver]

maybe they keep the smaller more maneuverable armour-plated cubes for the bioships & the rest of their forces for their "normal" ops..

btw notice by the end of s7 they'd also upgraded their disruptors probably because borg disruptors were shown to be somewhat effective against the bioships (Tuvock said so)

For those of you just now joining the conversation, this thread has been officially hijacked assimilated.

fixed

[AeronPrometheus]

maybe they keep the smaller more maneuverable armour-plated cubes for the bioships & the rest of their forces for their "normal" ops..

btw notice by the end of s7 they'd also upgraded their disruptors probably because borg disruptors were shown to be somewhat effective against the bioships (Tuvock said so)

I'd have to watch the entire seventh season over again to remember all of that. I forgot about the Borg weapons improvements but at that point it was all riding on the Queen's ego. She had the means to win against Voyager but her own self got in the way. It was a wee too late in the game for them to start considering hardware upgrades.

P.S. It's Tuvok.

[SoulReaver]

ah voyager was another matter - the borg were up against weapons from the future and some armour-shield that made the voyager near invincible...besides queeno was up against not one but two janeways ^_^ (not that janeway made the best leader but still she had her moments)

P.S. It's Tuvok.

whoops
guess I mixed up with Spock :/