Faith (406)

[nckzvnbr]

I do believe that part of Kara's destiny was to find Leoban so that he could take her to the Hybrid so they could have there little chat. I don't think they will have to go back to the nebula, but I could be wrong. During that chat, the Hybrid told Kara that the way to Earth would be via the Five.

Spoiler:

There are spoilers at patriot resource and battlestargalactica-wiki that suggest they will find Earth before the second half of the season and that it is abandoned. Further, they will find ruins. There are some pictures of a Raptor parked by some ruins, which according to rumor is on "Earth."

[Mongoletsi]

Anders definitely seems like the one who has the strongest connection to the other Cylons.

Respectfully disagree...

Tyrol to Sharon
Tigh to Six

Not to mention Helo to Sharon, and in fact Adama to Sharon. Or Baltar to 6.

[Mongoletsi]

... Nick & Hera are the only ones left and repopulate the Earth as Adam & Eve... Glad I wasn't the only one thinking of this.

Erm. It's totally a genetic impossibility for a single pair to repopulate a planet*. You need something like 50,000 people (according to Baltar)

* Do they teach that in Kansas now?

[Mongoletsi]

Ooh ooh... has anyone mentioned that this was the first time in the series that we've seen a FTL jump from the cockpit's perspective? I was wondering when we were gonna see that!

I thought it was a bit too "Startrek". Not being a hardcore geek, I kinda like the BSG anti-technology approach. I though it was meant to go "fwwwwip" not "woososhoosooohooooossh" if ye ken what am sayin?

[Mongoletsi]

Coupla my own questions...

- Somebody else already asked this; why is Anders not locked up for shooting Gaeta?

- Why didn't other Centurions respond when the one in the Hybrid room was shot up?

- Why didn't the Centurion(s) recognise Anders, as the Raider did?

- WTF is gonna happen when they jump back to the fleet? How the hell are Adama/Roslin going to explain it, and also prevent hysteria?

That'll be all

[m57lyra]

Coupla my own questions...

- Somebody else already asked this; why is Anders not locked up for shooting Gaeta?

- Why didn't other Centurions respond when the one in the Hybrid room was shot up?

- Why didn't the Centurion(s) recognise Anders, as the Raider did?

- WTF is gonna happen when they jump back to the fleet? How the hell are Adama/Roslin going to explain it, and also prevent hysteria?

That'll be all

1. Why would they when are the crap that kara pulled never got her locked up, CAllie wasn't locked up for killing Sharon, etc.

2. Maybe it was the only one left?

3. It took a bit of "handshaking" fo them to sync up. That opportnity wan't presented... ?

[CellarDwellar]

- Somebody else already asked this; why is Anders not locked up for shooting Gaeta?

Because Anders is a mudpuppy?

Kidding.

Take a look at the context, and why he shot him; I don't remember the episode right now, so I can't give a completely...detailed...explanation...bleh. Too much academics going through my brain right now.

If I remember right; he shot him to gtfo. So really you can't lock him up, because Anders is well-respected and always been sane despite the fact that his girlfriend is a slutty nut case. I'd give him respects for just THAT, I'd give him a little leeway for an outburst of WTF.

- Why didn't other Centurions respond when the one in the Hybrid room was shot up?

Because they didn't want to.

They all have free wills on that ship, right? So, they don't WANT to do something, they don't do it.

- Why didn't the Centurion(s) recognise Anders, as the Raider did?

The raider may not have actually recognized Anders, it's all speculation right now. They may have backed off by order of one of the cylons thinking that the final five are on the fleet and didn't want them destroyed, and was receiving the orders at that time.

In reality, speculation is all that says "Hey, remember that raider ship? It recognized Anders as a cylon."

- WTF is gonna happen when they jump back to the fleet? How the hell are Adama/Roslin going to explain it, and also prevent hysteria?

All of this is in my opinion!

I think Adama is gonna be all WTH YOU DOIN', and Kara's going to explain with Athena, Leoben, and Anders backing her up. Since Athena is babbling, I'm sure Helo will join in, and I'm not so sure about Gaeta, but still. So once it's explained, Roslin's going to have the usual NO, NO, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, THEY'RE CYLONS, YOU'RE CRAZY.

As for general panic, they're going to have to let themselves out of the bag and state that these cylons are with Kara Thrace, and they're the opposing side of the cylon civil war currently coming out. I mean, I could understand that; siding with the side that is pro-human sounds a lot nicer than getting stuck dead in the middle of a civil war, or losing the opportunity for REAL harmony and peace.

It's a big leap for both sides, so don't gimme no "Cylons have it easy" or "humans wouldn't understand" junk. Because in all honesty, I'm very sure most people would rather look for co-existence rather than fighting EVERYTHING, AND have to find earth.

Roslin always freaks out, Kara always flips someone off in her Kara way, and Adama is always angry as hell. I want some Apollo though!

Just speculation. /flex

[Mongoletsi]

In reality, speculation is all that says "Hey, remember that raider ship? It recognized Anders as a cylon."

I'm almost entirely certain that the skinjobs have agreed that the reason the Raider stopped is because it recognised another Cylon?

I agree with your prediction for jumping back with the Basestar. It's the only way it can go but it will be pretty chaotic!

[nckzvnbr]

So is Anders going to face any consequences for shooting Gaeta, a superior officer? Ander's conduct was not the result of an order given by Kara, the ship's CO, lawful or unlawful, he did it on his own initiative. If I were Adama, I would pull an Andrew Jackson, who shot a soldier for sleeping on watch.

[Lady Snow]

So is Anders going to face any consequences for shooting Gaeta, a superior officer? Ander's conduct was not the result of an order given by Kara, the ship's CO, lawful or unlawful, he did it on his own initiative. If I were Adama, I would pull an Andrew Jackson, who shot a soldier for sleeping on watch.

He definitely should - though it might be better (read: 'funnier') if Peg-Leg Gaeta goes after Anders.

[entil2001]

As anticipated, this episode effectively ends the “introductory” phase of the season arc, bringing Kara’s initial search for the path back to Earth to a close. It also takes the Cylon civil war into an unexpected direction, and Roslin receives an interesting challenge to her perspective from another dying cancer patient. Whether in active practice or quiet discussion, faith is at the center of the story.

Previous episodes had the more “human” side of the Cylon civil war decimated without the presence of a resurrection ship, so as the weakened army, it makes sense that they would find a potential alliance with the Humans a viable option. It’s also worth noting that the models in question have been represented by individuals with a particular brand of “love” (even if Boomer is playing for the other side now).

From the pragmatic perspective, they need help to survive, and if the hardliners among the Cylon are taking control, the Humans could also use all the help they can get. From a metaphysical perspective, both sides are searching for the “Final Five”, so there’s a common cause. The lethal scene between a Six and Barolay is more than enough to remind the audience that it’s still a tense and potentially disastrous arrangement. The wounds of New Caprica are evident on both sides.

Of course, that is in and of itself intriguing. How many of the Humans have had the opportunity to realize that the Cylons are not all mindless copies? They may come from the same template, but their personalities derive from a mixture of shared and individual experience. Exposure to Humans has unlocked, at least for some models, Humans traits. It’s been acknowledged in individual cases (as demonstrated by the trust given to Athena), but how will the Human masses, who were still isolated from most Cylons on New Caprica, deal with constant exposure? (Certainly Tigh, Tyrol, Tori, and Anders will have some interesting reactions.)

The hybrid’s jabbering to Kara ties in nicely with the final moments of “Razor”, and seems to give a direction for the new alliance to follow. In fact, much of what is happening in this episode fits the prophetic words of the very first hybrid: “The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of one splintering into many. And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.”

The sleight of hand regarding the ringed planet and the comet was clever, lending far more question to the nature of Kara’s memories than I had suspected. I still don’t think Kara is the final Cylon, but she may be something apart from that entire discussion. After all, the Temple of Five on the algae planet (“Eye of Jupiter” and “Rapture”) was dedicated to the five priests (analogues to the Final Five, or so it seems) who worshipped “The One Who Cannot Be Named”. The natural assumption is that this “One” is the Cylon God, but what if it’s something very different? Is it possible that, like the thirteen Human colonies with one quite apart from the other twelve, there is a being above and apart from the twelve Cylons?

If the Final Five “come from the home of the thirteenth”, then the theory that the Final Five are genetic descendants of the previous cycle’s merging of Human and Cylon is further supported. If that process is possible, then Kara’s genetic legacy might be connected similarly to this “One”. The mandala, carried over the ages, could be a meme carried down through the genetic memory, bringing “death” in the sense of “change/renewal”.

The first hybrid’s words seem to be following a chronological path. The “world not their own” could easily be the New Caprica situation, as “denial of the one true path” could have been the decision not to pursue Earth. The four, of course, are the four newly revealed Cylons. Kara certainly appeared to be in the “midst of confusion”, after which Leoben found her. At this point, the enemies have indeed been “brought together by impossible longing”. It would seem that the path forward is soon to be defined, and it will not be pleasant.

As seemingly obvious as it seems, the one clawing “toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering” could certainly apply to Baltar. It could technically be Roslin, though she has always been in the role of the “dying leader”. Of course, since these are obvious connections, it’s likely that the revelation will involve someone else.

Roslin’s own journey through mortality seems to confirm her role as the “dying leader” (who, apparently, will soon learn the truth about the “opera house”). Considering how long the series has drawn the distinction between the Humans’ “Lords of Kobol” and the Cylon “God”, it’s about time they had a deeper discussion on the subject. The interesting thing here is the underlying imagery that Baltar continues to utilize, which seems to connect to the collective unconscious of both Human and Cylon. More evidence, perhaps, that he is the final Cylon after all.

In terms of Roslin herself, the discussions with Emily have actually led her to wonder if Baltar is not as nutty as he seems. Given her absolute disgust with Baltar and distrust in every word that comes out of his mouth, it’s realistic for something like this, a confrontation with her apparently inevitable fate, to consider his words outside of that context. It would be a stunning turn of events if Roslin were to admit, on any level, that Baltar is right. Then again, with a basestar full of Cylons coming to visit, she’ll likely have other things on her mind.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2008
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

[m57lyra]

Oh... Just had a thought.

The dying leader COULD be Baltar. Since he has fashioned himself as a *religious* leader. And he certainly needs redeeming...

Hmmm... how will he die?

[m57lyra]

As seemingly obvious as it seems, the one clawing “toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering” could certainly apply to Baltar. It could technically be Roslin, though she has always been in the role of the “dying leader”. Of course, since these are obvious connections, it’s likely that the revelation will involve someone else.

Sheesh... I need to catch up on posts before *I* post again.

Baltar has been in the opera house with the Six as well as Roslin. That couped with the fact that Natalie is now on board, as well as Caprica Six, and Hera is apparently gravitating toward Caprica. I think there is an awful lot to be played out there...

I have a hard time believing the story is going to unfold in such a predictable manner as to have Rosyln turn out to be the dying leader, "as expected." Even a newbie watching for the first time this season could guess that one. Every part of the series has had very serious twists, coming out of left field. Baltar as the dying leader is a good candidate for season 4.

Now, will someone PLEASE answer me two questions;

1. Why hasn't Roslyn simply done another injection of Hera's blood? Why hasn't this been addressed?

2. Why did Kara not siply start by returning to the Ionian Nebula, where she could "hear" it clearly?

Ok, 3:

3. Wo the heck has been taking care of Hera?

[Amakusa]

1. Why would they when are the crap that kara pulled never got her locked up, CAllie wasn't locked up for killing Sharon, etc.

Just a little nit, but they did lock her up.

[An-Alteran]

Erm. It's totally a genetic impossibility for a single pair to repopulate a planet*. You need something like 50,000 people (according to Baltar)

* Do they teach that in Kansas now?

No it is not immpossible. It is just very unlikely, unless their lifespans were somehow increased so they could have more children.

They would also need to have genetic errors that DON'T OVERLAP.

If they had overlapping genetic errors, the mutations from their children's children could be very bad.