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    #46
    Given the degree that I did not like last weeks episode I was rather dubious about this one, though I had more hope for it knowing that we were going to come back to the cylon storyline which in all honesty is what I've found most compelling about the entire season.

    So I guess I will start with the cylon plot, which I would say was the A plot of this episode. The lead in scene from last weeks episode and this week's opening scene feel very different. I don't know if it's the quality of the writing or different writers or what. It was as if Starbuck suddenly became more sane, and while I can buy that the shooting of Gaeta was something that would snap her out of it, the entire turn of events if watched back to back would seem odd.

    If the raptor plan was plausable to start with, why hadn't it been brought up before? Why hadn't Kara brought it up? It's pretty clear that everyone including Kara thinks Anders is a little batty after he shoots Gaeta, so why are they so eager to take him into a potentially difficult and touchy situation on the cylon baseship? Was he a really nessecary character for that mission or did the writers just want to put him there.

    Speaking of the writing, Gaeta's leg and health I think were an unnessecary addition to emphasizing the jump clock. Too much of the muchness. The stakes were already high and adding Felix to that mix just deminished his character.

    The burning basetars and wounded remaining one are Kara's vision. Didn't see that coming. I guess that ends the fan discussions about the Ships of Light since we now know they were cylon ships all along. Does this mean we've come to the end of Kara's visions because she didn't have any other visions to earth.

    I would like to comment about how amazing the visual effects are this season. They are doing some very special stuff in being reductive, in going down to the small detail. The voyage through the destroyed and burning basestars was pretty amazing stuff. I loved how they were bleeding. Not sure the explosion was nessecary, much like Gaeta's leg it seemed like a false note in the script. Like the writers didn't kow how to get form seeing the basetar to having the raptor land so they decided to make a minicliffhanger and jump to the basetar landing bay.

    Athena is a hero to the Eights. I love how they are such sheep and she hates them for it. Pick a side and stick with it. It's a turn of plot I didn't expect and I like that it gives Grace a chance to prove that she can really differentiate those characters in a way I don't think she's been entirely successful in doing before. She is so caught up in being human that it seems almost unfair to ask her suddnely to be a cylon again.

    Six and Red Head Chick who's name I can't spell off the top of my head. I found that scene endlessly fascinating on a number of levels. Has Natalie never been killed that she thinks that the other Six should be able to get past what was clearly a pretty horrific death. Drowning in a septic tank is got to be the worst way I can think of to go, and Boothbey seems to have had a certain sadistic streak about killing cylons on New Caprica. I'm glad they paid that off. I found her death to have a bit more impact than Mathias' last week in part because it was bound to happen.

    You couldn't have brought those people togeather and expect there not to be ill feelings. It's said that the most dangerous time for a soldier is the time right after the firing is supposed to stop. The first few minutes after surrendar, the first few hours after a cease fire. You can't have thrown togeather two races of people who have been hell bent on killing each other and not expect someone to die.

    On a film production level I'd love to know how they handled the intimate dialogue between Six and Natalie, and the kiss, though I suppose the fact that the six was bent over by handers and her hair was in her face means they could have used a double. Except Tricia's face is not exactly one you could double that easily. Oddly enough the scene had a lot of the same feelings to it that Tigh and Ellen had, though admittedly much faster and not as deeply. You can tell how much working with the humans is eating at Natalie. I wonder if she really thought through her comment about not needing the Raptor crew. How was she going to make peace with the Colonials if she had just killed a bunch of them to staal a raptor?

    I still love Natalie. She's still Six and Laura Roslin's love child. I want to have Tricia Helfer's internet babies. I'm just in awh of her.

    Starbuck did not annoy me for once this season. I was getting very tired of the bug eyed crazy look and I rather sympathized with her in the hybrid scenes. It seemed a little strange to me that no one else seemed to ract to "Kara Thrace will be the harbringer of death" bit given they discussed the rest of the sentence preceeding it. If they take the hybrid's statement on face value as they appeared to, shouldn't they take all of it?

    Again, I love the damaged basehip vfx, and rather liked the scene between Helo and Athena when they show back up again, but it leads me back to the same question the fans have been asking for a while. Why are these two not talking about their kid? You know, the shape of things to come? We're still dealing with the fighting Agathons being out of character in this reguard.

    The Roslin B plot... it was so shocking to see Mary with no hair. Though the bald cap wasn't the best fitting one I've ever seen. You can tell she's got so much hair under it. It just made her have a very strange shape to her head. The scene with Tory would feel more touching if whe hadn't been watching Tory betray Roslin with Baltar for the last three episodes. It's difficult to come back to the idea that Tory is such a good aide to Roslin given we haven't seen Roslin with Tory in a while.

    Speaking of not seeing people, while I was happy to do without Baltar, anyone wondering where Lee is given that RDM kept saying how much Lee came into his own when they took him out of the uniform? At least when they lost Lee in the second half of season 2 and three... they didn't physically misplace Jamie Bamber.

    The scenes between Roslin and Emily were really touching, and this is yet another example of RDM proving that the actors from Star Trek were often so much better than the material they were given. The conversation and the end reminded me a great deal of what I've seen in cancer deaths and it had a ring of authencity. When my mathmetician stepfather was at that stage of his cancer he woke up from a dream all euphoric and told my mother that they were going to let him be a complex number in the next life. It was a very sweet and very nerdy moment.

    I love the idea that this is what Roslin needed to find some truth back to her path again, and it coincided nicely with the prophecy from the hybrid about the truth of the opera house. I wounder if Athena is going to tell anyone that she's been in that opera house and with whom.

    The one thing I wish we'd seen this week was the reaction of the colonial fleet when that basetar jumps in, but i suppose that was a bit too much to ask and that's going to be a big thing next week. Or I hope it is, because if they don't show that I'll be unhappy.


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      #47
      Originally posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
      I'll buy it. Perhaps the final five get a little too big for their britches, re-program the seven for some purpose.....like deleting whatever relevant "files" they had regarding the five but didn't fully delete those "files" from the recycle bin. Hence why they retain knowledge of the existence of the final five, but can't access who they are. Probably a very bad analogy, technically speaking, but..... Then perhaps the final final cylon decided it was superior to the other four, and wiped their minds and gave them special programming? Perhaps the final final cylon believed that he/she was divine. Bah.....talking myself round in circles. Love it.
      lol no worries, any proud geek would have understood the recycling bin analogy

      Originally posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
      Heh, typo on what was intended as a little Harry Potter reference.....I'm typing too fast. I'm now very confused as to where you're going with that.
      Ah well, now you've gone and lost me I can't stand Harry Potter and avoid it like the plague so your reference went right over my head
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by marielabbott View Post
        I found last week's episode underwhelming--this week's was overwhelming. So much happened I can hardly take it all in.

        The opening minutes were intense, and I hope poor Felix survives, and survives intact. He looked like death in a few of the later shots.

        There was just so much going on...the Final Five are from Earth? Starbuck--what do those cyrptic words of the hybrid mean to her? What was Athena thinking when she turned away from her dying model-sister? Why are they killing someone in every ep this season?

        I loved Nana Visitor as the dying cancer patient. A brief friendship through the agony of shared suffering. I'm still unsure of Baltar as a religious figure; I'll have to see where this goes.

        Anders has really become a main focus for me this season, and he had an incredible range of emotions this ep. Shooting Felix in loyalty to Kara, almost touching the basestar's computer interface, nearly killing a Cylon in retribution, giving comfort to a dying one, learning he was supposedly from the lost colony and should know the way there. What a day.

        A nice quiet scene to end an action packed episode. Adama and Roslin pledge to find Earth, together.
        I find Anders's reactions to being a cylon the most intriguing at the moment. Most human, most curious (I'd say even more curious than Tory). The reactions of the others are a little more straightforward. Tigh = denial, Tory = embracing her nature, Chief = suicidal. I love that Anders, while having these moments of panic is rationally calm about it (I don't think shooting Gaeta had anything to do with his being a cylon- I think that's just purely Anders). And not scarily so. He's grown on me as a character constantly since he appeared, and this ep just pushing him into the category of my favourite characters.

        And I love the quiet scene at the end. After so much death and action, give us something light and hopeful. RDM did say in one of the podcasts that the Adama and Roslin cancer storyline is one of the strongest parts of the season. And I tend to agree so far. It feels quite peaceful. Strange saying that a CANCER storyline is the "light" part of the show. But at the moment it is. It does have it's emotionally draining elements (and will obviously become more so)- I was on the verge of tears this week AGAIN. But it's still "light" (for lack of a better word), probably due to the simple human fact of it.

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          #49
          Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
          Holy run-on-sentence Batman

          So the general idea of the quoted text is that the phrasing simply means that a similar sequence of events happens over and over? I find that hard to come to terms with, since the Cylons seem to know exactly who Kara is and what she's all about. I have a really hard time believing that events would play out so similarly that they'd be able to peg a role down to a single person quite so easily.
          Well the first season they did repeat the mantra that all this has happened before and it all happen again. Once you know the archetypes that you need to complete a story, you can find the characters that fit those archetypes.

          I'm going to be thinking on this one all week. It kind of blew my mind that the final 5 came from Earth because I can't think of a reason that the 7 would know about the 5. If the 5 came from Earth, they have to predate the 7 by a long time. Why would there have been a satellite that had a virus that killed skinjobs that appeared to come from Earth?

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            #50
            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
            lol no worries, any proud geek would have understood the recycling bin analogy
            Continuing it, lets say if Anders had indeed stuck his hand in the cylon water computer, and that potentially could have done the equivalent of hitting the "restore files" key. Suddenly everything concerning the final five comes available to them, everyone is outed and they have one big cylon party meeting after de-boxing D'Anna..... Damn you Anders for being hesitant!

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              #51
              Originally posted by Lady Snow View Post
              I'm guessing it's D'Anna.
              That was my understanding of the "The 3 will give you the 5." The Model 3 is the D'Anna's! So i'm assuming they might eventually unbox her Line possibly to find the Final 5.
              sigpic
              Sig Created by Lovley Lahela!

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                #52
                Maybe its just me but there is so much quiet whisper dialog I just can't make out. Military related tinnutis and hearing loss will do that.

                Tonight I HD'd the first run and watched the second with the closed caption on. WOW! That has improved and is killer accurate. It's also great to 'hear' every little whisper, like what Gaeta was telling Helo. Am I alone in finding some of the talk TOO soft and mumbled?

                Just a note, data doesn't go through an HDMI cable so there's a trade off.

                I didn't even catch Nana the first run through. Just that sense of something. Then I caught the post here and paid better attention the second viewing.

                Damn, this show demands a board, it has so much going on!

                Comment


                  #53
                  "Soon their will be four glorious in awakening struggling with the knowledge of their true selves
                  The pain of revelation bringing new clarity."

                  - Refers to how Tigh, Tyrol, Sam, and Tori are either in denial of their true selves or their acceptance of what they are

                  "I can see them all the 7 now 6 self-described machines who believe themselves without sin
                  but in time it is sin that will consume them. They will know inemity bitterness the renching
                  agony of the one splintering into the many"

                  - Refers to the 6 humanoid Cylons who have brought Civil War upon their race

                  And the 5th still in Shadow will claw towards the Light seeking redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible sufferring.

                  {The Hybrid}
                  Battlestar Galactica Razor
                  Last edited by hellrasinb; 09 May 2008, 09:59 PM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
                    Best episode of the season.

                    I absolutely adore Nana Visitor and the cancer humour and discussions. Absolutely lovely. *sniffle*
                    Holy frak that was Nana Visitor? The NV from DS9?! OMG she has not aged well...

                    But I guess that's just cancer makeup...

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Wow. FINALLY a good season 4 BSG episode.

                      I can't wait to see what happens when the Basestar jumps smack in the middle of the colonial fleet.
                      These are the wrong people... in the wrong place.

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                        #56
                        So the Six that perma-died was Caprica Six?

                        And the eight that died was the original sharon (boomer)? Or what... I still can't figure out which sharon Athena is.
                        My heart beats in 13/8.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Kara described a trinary star system with a gas giant. HD 188753 is only 149 light-years away in the constellation Cygnus and has a gas giant.

                          Alpha Centauri could be another candidate and only 4.37 light-years from Earth. Possibly close enough to see the same star patterns as the ones in the Tomb of Athena.

                          Polaris, the northern star, is also a trinary star system in the constellation Ursa Minor, and 431.42 light-years from Earth.

                          Seems like Kara was shown or remembered a signpost to Earth from what was shown in this episode. Unknown if she really visited Earth. Since Leobin called her an "angel" as opposed to an agent of "God" in the previous eppy, Kara may have encountered the 'Beings of Light'. Interesting twist from the original "War of the Gods" arc where the BoL gave Apollo, Starbuck, and Sheba the actual coodinates, but RDM only gave Starbuck 'feelings' to where it is.

                          The destruction of the Colonials if they follow Starbuck could mean a lot of things. Cavill's fleet may be following them, patiently waiting for the Colonials to find Earth and then wipe out all humans in one stroke. That would break the "circle of time" theme and history will not repeat itself. OR it could mean a merging/cross-breeding of the Human and Cylon race and that would mean the eventual end of both races as separate and unique species as they breed over several generations.

                          In any case, it is interesting that RDM is revisiting the mysticisms of the Colonial (and Cylon) universe and is reintegrating it back into the story line as well as having fans guess where the RTF is in relation to Earth.
                          It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by metabog View Post
                            So the Six that perma-died was Caprica Six?

                            And the eight that died was the original sharon (boomer)? Or what... I still can't figure out which sharon Athena is.
                            Nope and nope. Caprica Six is in Galactica's brig, last we saw spending a lot of time with Tigh. And last we saw of original Galactica Sharon (Boomer), she was having an icky affair with one of the Cavils and had sided with the Cavils, Simons and Dorals against the rest of her model, the Sixes, and Leobens.

                            So the ones that died were just a random six and eight.

                            That's not complicated at all.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Sci-Fi View Post
                              Kara described a trinary star system with a gas giant. HD 188753 is only 149 light-years away in the constellation Cygnus and has a gas giant.
                              I'm not quite getting why so many people seem to be unwilling to accept the explaination delivered on screen that Kara's visions weren't of a trinary star system but that the three flashing stars were in fact the three burning basestars, especially when the VFX people were so blatent and the dialogue so pointed that the gas giant and damaged basestar were the commet of her dialogue.


                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Zamboni View Post
                                Holy frak that was Nana Visitor? The NV from DS9?! OMG she has not aged well...

                                But I guess that's just cancer makeup...
                                Cancer makeup. She's aged just fine....


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