He That Believeth in Me (401)

[Trek_Girl42]

I am addicted to spoilers! They don't ruin the show for me, they make me anticipate it even more. I try to restrain myself, though, for the sake of others.

I despise them. Season two aired six months late here, and I got spoiled on the one year later and couple other things by some frakwit in an SG-1 thread.....I've hated spoilers with a passion since then.


P-90_177, hypocritical, yes. But that's just part of who Starbuck is. She's inconsistent (well, she's consistent at being inconsistent) and passionate in her anger which in anyone inevitably leads to hypocrisy.

[Pandora's_Box]

I've gotta say that while I thoroughly enjoyed this episode (it was a very solid epi), it wasn't my favourite and not the best season premiere as Briangate mentioned.

Few things I liked:

Baltar and Six: I have always loved these two characters. The miniseries introduced these amazingly complex characters and then season one just took them above and beyond what I could have ever expected from a television show. Even a sci-fi tv show.
Spoiler for speculation (not based on spoilers):

Spoiler:

I've been toying with the idea that the Six in his head is actually the voice of the Cylon God. Afterall, it's been established that the polytheistic religion of the humans and its Gods has some basis in fact (Tomb of Athena anyone?) so why not the Cylon God? I wouldn't put it past this show to pull that off.

On top of that, it seems like no matter what Baltar goes through, no matter what hardships or hells he's put through, in the end he'll always be about Gaius Baltar. On any other show and with any other actor this would come off as one-note but not here.

Kara: She's back but is she a cylon? If she's not then where did she get the new Viper? How did she find Earth? Where is this 'feeling' coming from? So many questions!! I love it!

Things I didn't:

Laura Roslin: Something about her reactions to Kara just annoyed me. We;re talking about the woman who asked Kara to retrieve the Arrow of Apollo of an occupied, post-nuclear apocolypse Caprica so that she could take it to the Tomb of Athena of Kobol and find the mythical planet Earth. All of which she'd gotten from scriptures and visions induced by Chamalla. Now she's refusing to believe in the possibility that Kara may have actually found Earth. I understand that the curcumstances are suspect and that Laura thinks she knows the way, but to just summarily dismiss the idea and label her a Cylon? I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later.


Overall though, I can't say I was dissapointed. Great beginning to what is sadly the last season of one of the best sci-fi shows, or rather one of the best shows of any genre period.

Can we finally get some mainstream recognition this season, please? James Callis and Tricia Helfer deserve Emmy's. This show deserves Emmy's. Heck...just give one to everybody on the show. The acting and writing is better than on 90% of the shows that usually get the awards.

[Trek_Girl42]

Laura Roslin: Something about her reactions to Kara just annoyed me. We;re talking about the woman who asked Kara to retrieve the Arrow of Apollo of an occupied, post-nuclear apocolypse Caprica so that she could take it to the Tomb of Athena of Kobol and find the mythical planet Earth. All of which she'd gotten from scriptures and visions induced by Chamalla. Now she's refusing to believe in the possibility that Kara may have actually found Earth. I understand that the curcumstances are suspect and that Laura thinks she knows the way, but to just summarily dismiss the idea and label her a Cylon? I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later.

The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

[Pandora's_Box]

The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

If Kara were a Cylon then this would mean that she'd been one the whole time as has been stated on the show.
Logically then, she was a Cylon when Roslin sent her for the Arrow. Couldn't this then have all been an elaborate trap set up by the Cylons to find Earth? Wouldn't humanity be doomed then anyway and following where the path that started with the Arrow leads just means they're leading the Cylons right to the thirteenth colony?

[Pandora's_Box]

I have to correct what I said earlier about Baltar always being about his own needs and wants despite everything he's gone through.

It's important to note that he doesn't seem to do that in this episode. He is willing to trade his life for that of the young boy. Now, whether he does this as a ploy to gain more standing and trust from these peope or whether he really truly believes that there is a God listening and ready to make the trade, remains to be seen.

I for one am not so certain that Baltar has become such a devout believer yet. I don't even know if I believe he's truly capable of it, but we'll see.

[chris777]

So much for "the plan"

well if you trust the script of this episode one must assume that the final 1 is on board Galactica based on caprica 6's conversation with Laura.
Which also brings up the question why did she not recognize Tigh , unless the "trigger" made them "detectable" so to speak, and Yes it is possible that she only detects the 4 we know, given I am not entirely convinced the writers have even decided on the final one.

Based on the promo for episode 2 it is safe to assume That Cavil is attempting to determine why the raiders caused the cylon fleet to retreat by lobotomizing them. Which brings up a gripe While Iwas impressed with the Fx on the opening scene, and it was quite good, cinematic in fact, the whole "nick of time" save has been pulled off too many times in this show, its getting a bit unbelievable, I understand that it was a nesessity with the setection of anders, and quite likely the writers could not come up with another save, but it is becoming overused, what is this like the 4th of 5th time this sort of save has been pulled off?


As for characterization all the characters flip flop around in their views and opinions.
Laura trust starbuck (with the arrow) she doesnt trust her.
Lee doesn't trust athena(thinking she's boomer) but trust starbuck
trusted Laura, but now trust starbuck
Adama trusted starbuck , now does not
and Starbuck ahh Starbuck Well she trust Athena, but would shoot sam if she found out he was a cylon.
But it is starbuck and she is about as stable as a whirlpool (the eye lol)
it's just strange, I assume its different writers coming in not having a nandle on the characters, but its kind of annoying.
It reminds me of Lees speech in Baltars trial, I know people are hypocrites, but it just seems sort of ridiculous with the pendulum shifting views these people seem to have.

Pretty good overall though.

[wilsan]

The first thing I noticed at the begining of the show was how clean Starbuck's viper was in the teaser before the opening credits. This accually raised a lot of questions, if Starbuck is not a Cylon then how did she get back to the fleet in a new bird? And what's with the time discrepance? These sort of things seem contradictory.

[monkey_man132]

Spoiler:

I really enjoyed this episode it was so great man In sci fi shows theres always that cheesy storyline of someone returning from the dead but they are not sure wether its really him/her but this was done good, of course

I'm not really a big fan as in I haven't seen many episodes, but I have watches mini series, razor, many episodes here and theres and most of season 3 and I am really liking it!!!

kick ass space battle I love the civilian ships in the heat of it that was so cool the missiles flying and Adama saying "we can take the hits" and for vipers to protect civilian ships, man that was awesome.

third edit just forgot to add i friggin jumped when Adama was shot in the face, took me a couple seconds to cool down and then i started thinking it wasn't a real sequence, pheeewwww!!!!

[Trek_Girl42]

Anyone know if we'll be getting the podcasts again this season? I really need my RDM commentary fix.....

[hoof]

Good episode, but there are some obvious questions the characters should be asking:

1) If Kara is a trap intended to get the fleet killed, then why would the Cylons, who obviously know they have the fleet cornered, let them go? Adama and Roslyn should realize that something else is going on and that Kara is not part of the "regular" cylon plan, at least not if the plan was to destroy the fleet. They had their chance and they chose not to finish the humans (or at least most of them). Thus it seems illogical that they'd use Kara to engineer the fleet's demise. That leads to the fairly obvious conclusion that Kara must be part of either someone else's plan, or the Cylons don't (yet) want the humans dead.

2) If Kara is a remake (e.g. not the original body), then her fingers are likely not broken from her childhood. If whoever engineered her return provided a clean & new Viper, then they likely didn't re-break her fingers. Thus, if they check her hands for prior breaks and they don't find any, she's a copy. Of course, few people know about her hands, except for her hubby, who's worried about his own background right know.

3) If this really was Kara, I doubt she'd be so dumb as to think Adama would listen to her if she kills the president. It's obvious that if she executes the president, everyone will think she's a cylon who was programmed to do that, and thus can't be trusted (it would be like trusting Boomer right after she shot Adama). Thus, why would she go after the president? Why wouldn't she even think that going after the president would convince everyone that she's a threat?

Frankly, regardless of what they think of Kara, they really should be asking themselves why the Cylons pulled back. In some ways Kara is blinding them to the much more important question of trying to ascertain why the Cylons would choose not to finish them. Obviously something changed mid-battle, obviously something convinced them to change course.

On another note, I do belive this is the first time ever in the series where Gaius actually cared about someone else. Gaius actually wanted the boy to live and felt that if he could die to save the kid, he'd be willing to do it. Considering there was no obvious payback for faking it (esp. when he's about to have his throat slit), I think it's genuine. So have we seen the beginnings of a new Gaius Baltar?

Good episode, but like I expected, it's purpose is to set a bunch of balls rolling, balls that will take many episodes to resolve.

[Detox]

The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

But the thing is, the human race WAS about to die. At the start of the episode, they would've been wiped out if it wasn't for the Cylons retreating.

Her theory is that the Cylons planted Kara and then retreated when Galactica found her. But that makes no sense. If they had the chance to destroy them, but why didn't. Why would they go through the trouble and risks of scheming something, when they had the chance to end it right then and there?

So logically speaking, there would be no logical reason for Kara to be a Cylon plan to destroy the fleet. And Roslin's an idiot for assuming there would.

[wiseowl777]

i dont read spoilers, these all came from my fraked up little head, so no worries

theres a huge underlying story here that we probably know nothing abt. my opinion:
1. kara flips over the gun to roslin and says see, my choice (kinda like athena did on kobol)
2. perhaps the cylons were looking for (even though they arnt supposed 2) any signs of the other 5 and thats why they got giddy and retreated (kinda like an 0 we're in, why bother fighting?)
3. kara's not a cylon. wayy to obvious for moore. plus if it was to be a cylon ploy, giving her a new viper would be way to ridiculous of a mistake to make. it has some different meaning... what exactly i have no idea
4. they can not trust kara, espically given the cirumstances of knowing there are still (to them 5 other cylons). -for teh stargate fans, its like wat vala said to the "prior" jackson, abt no listening bc even if they have the "slighest inkling of a doubt it could lead to the end" of the human race
5. and my bigger theory.... i no longer think that the "leader" thats supposed to take us to the promised land is roslin anymore. these guys throw huge sweeping curve balls at us... i think, shes not going to make it till the end, and the leader that takes them there will only lead for a very short period of time, andd itll be the "i think i can make a bigger diff in gov. than by flying, lee adama" -

--- but does any1 have the exact lines that she said describing earth?... did she say yellow moon? and maybe i glanced too fast but those pictures she took of the moon and earth, didnt "earth" look a little reder than usual, or was it my tv?

6. 0 yeah and #6... all of these "cylons" have at some point been sleeping with a main character human... only couple
human cylon
starbuck-------sam
calley---------cheif
helo--------athena
baltar---------6 and diana
ellen---------saul
ellen----------caval
perhaps??
lee-----------dualla?


as for the:
sam-----tori
boomer----cheif
-things.... well u frakin got me!?

-just as long as its not billy the undead cylon, ill be happy

[AutumnDream]

So much for "the plan"As for characterization all the characters flip flop around in their views and opinions.
Laura trust starbuck (with the arrow) she doesnt trust her.
Lee doesn't trust athena(thinking she's boomer) but trust starbuck
trusted Laura, but now trust starbuck
Adama trusted starbuck , now does not
and Starbuck ahh Starbuck Well she trust Athena, but would shoot sam if she found out he was a cylon.
But it is starbuck and she is about as stable as a whirlpool (the eye lol)
it's just strange, I assume its different writers coming in not having a nandle on the characters, but its kind of annoying.
It reminds me of Lees speech in Baltars trial, I know people are hypocrites, but it just seems sort of ridiculous with the pendulum shifting views these people seem to have.

Pretty good overall though.

Uh, you don't find it reasonable that given recent circumstances Laura and Adama no longer trust Kara? Are you serious bro? You're criticizing the writers for not making the characters behave as if Maelstrom - Crossroads hadn't happened?

[bluestrike]

It was a really strong opening episode. I felt it only dragged with the Baltar storyline. His character has grown tired at this point.

[Integrabyte]

The BSG syndrome follows in S4 too: more NOISE than BANG. If Gaius does not sleep with someone BSG cannot move on...