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    Death by a thousand cuts

    So you folks like BSG, huh? Ready to trash talk the plot lines

    Seriously, I have watched every single BSG episode including the Pegasus director’s cut. Before anyone starts shooting energy beams up my six, I am a fan. But I’ve been thinking about the last few of episodes and they are definitely losing this fan, episode-by-episode. Especially the current one with Baltar’s defense counsel. Puhleez! Lords of Cobol save me from grandstanding cowboy defense attorneys!

    But, I digress. Actually, the producers are losing this fan not all at once with anything monumental. It’s more akin to death by a thousand cuts performed by bad writing. consider this: Am I the only fan who "gets it" that the mandala, central to all this hocus-pocus nonsense with Kara Thrace and the search for earth is actually a simple representation of syzygy, the alignment of The Sun, Earth and Moon? DUH!

    How long must we suffer through endless jump cuts and dreamscapes until they reveal what is painfully obvious. I got the syzygy mandala map when I first saw it on the planetfall episode. Man, they sure are milking that artifice for a multi-episodic story arc.

    Honestly BSG fans, what started out as a wonderful series with excellent visuals, decent scripts episode-after-episode, and sensational acting (especially for a sci-fi space opera) -- has really taken a nose dive this season. IMHO. I think the writers and certainly the executive producer are taking themselves WAY too mystically this time out. And the writers are not good enough to pull it off. They are telegraphing the big revelations to come in a rather clumsy way. Are we finally done with that hardass psycho pilot Starbuck? Probably not. Being vaporized in a gas giant implosion should have been the first clue :-) No corpse, no autopsy. Oh, we’ll see Kara again. Just as Spock was resurrected, so to shall Starbuck. The writers try too hard to implement the "nothing is as it seems" mantra. And it ain't working, in this fan's opinion. Everything is a wee bit too obvious.

    And, while I'm at it, the messy masala of a polytheistic society that has maintained traditional racist castes which suddenly develops the moral and ethical fabric to create unions and collective bargaining is a bad joke. The best the polytheistic societies on this tiny blue planet ever came up with were trade guilds. There is a fundamental leap of social and religious evolution that had to happen to evolve past polytheism to monotheism and respect for individual rights that is actually the cornerstone of Judaism before Earthly societies could develop those institutions. OK, so in the BSG world it took a different track? Nah, not buying it. Not when the series is going to end one of two ways: (IMHO)

    1. They come to Earth, have a final genocidal showdown with the Cylons and the remaining human survivors become the ancient Greeks or,

    2. They find earth and the lost tribe that landed here and founded Hellenistic society. There will be some good explanation for the loss of all that fancy technology.

    Tell me something I don't already know please, tick tock, life is too short :-)

    It's the same sort of metaphysical-babble BS that tanked ST DS9 at the end of its run with all that Celestial Temple, Pah Wraith, messenger of the Prophets, good versus evil silliness. One of the best things about ST TNG, for example, was the absence of all that crap. Same with Voyager. But, I digress, yet again.

    The BSG producers and writers are stuck in some higher calling God groove and lost in space. (OK, bad pun.)

    IMHO, space operas always work best when they ignore the metaphysical weirdness and just stick to the laws of physics wrapped around a damned fine story line. For example, even Star Trek physics. After all, the transporter was invented to save on expensive production costs whenever the crew needed to make a planetfall. Nothing very fancy there. NBC was just being cheap. But even in that, the ST team managed to factor in the Heisenberg Principle and while the solution was not at hand in our time, they simply invented Heisenberg Compensators for the transporter system and its, "3 to beam up, energize."

    You would think the BSG boys-n-girls would have figured all this out. In good sci fi writing, it's OK to suspend belief, not put your brains on hold. BTW, I have been a die-hard sci-fi fan since I first learned to read at age 4. Used to write sci-fi short stories back in the day as a teenager. Prayed at the altar of the greats: Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Rod Serling, DC Fontana, Roddenberry, etc. Lived long enough to see that some of their wild fantasies, were not so wild after all. Like personal communicators, directed energy weapons, communications satellites, artificial intelligence, robotics, yada-yada-yada. Somehow, drunken and disturbed fighter pilots, Cylon babes, and improbable story lines are not quite cutting it for this sci-fi lad.

    Your thoughts, BSG fans?

    #2
    Only one: you're biased in favor of the monotheists.

    I like the metaphysical side of BSG. If it was only about chasing cylons and finding Earth, it would run out of story in a season, not four or five.
    sigpic

    Comment


      #3
      I have to agree with Desperado

      This show is slowly killing off my enthusiasm for it....

      where are the cylons? all the quadrangle crap and the baltar trial is taking this show nowhere..

      I really really can't wait for this season to finish...... sorry.... I used to gnaw on my fingers in anticipation waiting for the next episode, now it's ah right what have they got this week....

      Comment


        #4
        So, I simply have a question or two for all those people that think BSG sucks right now and is losing them.

        When did it start? What was the start, the first moment, when BSG disappointed you?

        If, as stated above, it's all the metaphysical stuff, hmmm... so I take it that you were starting to be done with this series in season 1? That's when that stuff started, if not in the mini-series... so please, do tell, when did you start to lose interest? I'll be any amount that it was well into the metephysics of it all.

        Space opera without metaphysics... bad news for Star Wars.

        You want to suggest that the transporters in ST were okay because they provided some scientific out... Okay, well, last I checked we weren't able to construct Cylons. What's the science out for that? What in science suggests that we can create life forms from mechanics that we'll ultimately be able to mate with?

        If we're going to be petty about stuff, let's be petty. The metaphysics of this show didn't start in episode 1 of season 3... they started in episode 1 of season 1, if not before.

        Pick and choose all you want. I can throw it right back at you why you're a hypocrit. The fact is, either you're enjoying it or not. But because you can't either follow or enjoy the story doesn't mean that they're doing something different or wrong.

        See, here's the paragraph where my own bias comes in and I complain about the quadrangle... I find that much more offensive to my sensibilities than any of the religion. But is it going to make me stop watching? No. If a series evolved exactly the way you think it should at every point you're either the writer or one bored fan.

        Comment


          #5
          Interesting observation regarding the poly versus monotheism camps. Actually, I'm quite agnostic in that regard. Atheistic, if you will, since science cannot assume the influence of a supernatural hand but must always follow the evidence, explore the universe, find the measurable connections, test, question, prove and disprove. My only belief is that science is as flawed as any religion and therefore must always be questioned, which is the very nature of science.

          Then, alongs comes a season of scripts that get lost in metaphysical babble at the expense of the bigger picture which is the struggle of humanity against genocide while simultaneously struggling with its own internal weaknesses. Pretty heavy stuff of great scripts. It should be presented in blended episodic form, juxtaposing the twin struggles side-by-side or at best with alternating story arcs. Except that this season, IMHO, the writing turned wimpy and weak and just plain silly in many respects. The juxtaposition between the struggle to survive Cylon persecution and ensure the survival of humanity has been completely lost to the petty internal squabbles of the exiles. But this long dry spell of no Cylons except for poor Ms. Six is BORING.

          The BSG concept was obviously adapted from the Book of Exodus, adding a polytheistic religion overlay, and flinging the Children of Cobol (aka the Children of Israel) into space instead of with Sinai wilderness. Which, as science has pointed out, was actually the Arabian peninsula and the Ten Commandments Episode (aka, Eye of Jupiter episode) actually took place on Jebel Musa in what is now Saudi Arabia instead of Santa Katerina which has been the traditional location in Sinai. If you believe the mythology, that is.

          But, again I digress. Except to make a point. The authors are lifting ideas from one of the greatest cultural parables and dramatic stories of genocide, escape, wilderness wandering and eventual redemption ever written. Doesn’t matter whether you believe in one God, a pantheon, or no god at all – this is an important cultural underpinning of human society.

          Yet in Season 3, our intrepid producers/writers are not capturing the intense drama of the two stores -- the threat from within due to moral weakness of those who would be redeemed, testing whether they are worthy of redemption and have the moral strength to redeem themselves -- and the threat from without to exterminate them by a ruthless, merciless, implacable enemy – which the victim’s own actions gave rise to. WOW! This is the stuff of legends. Oops, been there, read that. That's still great material for serialized TV drama, and this season, the BSG folks are just not up to the challenge.

          BTW, our intrepid producers/writers have plenty of historical examples to follow. If the Egyptian armies and Pharaoh don't float their boat, try Hitler and the Nazis. The Sudanese Darfurians and the Janjaweed. Rwandan Hutus and Tutsis, Chinese and Tibetans, Khmer Rough and all of Cambodia, Saddam and the Sunnis versus Iraqi Shiites and Kurds. The list is long and saddening to recount. In every generation on this planet at least, there arises persecutors who challenge our moral fiber and our lives with unspeakable evil and genocide. And there are a noble few -- the Israelites escaping Pharaoh, the Warsaw Ghetto fighters taking on the Nazis, and so on -- who stand in a place of integrity to survive, fight and sometimes die for the greater good. The BSG writers are working too hard to try and be "cool". They should just get back to telling an epic and heroic story with the space opera backdrop. It worked for two seasons. Hey, writers, "If it ain't broke..."

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Marauder359 View Post
            So, I simply have a question or two for all those people that think BSG sucks right now and is losing them.

            When did it start? What was the start, the first moment, when BSG disappointed you?
            Mostly I lurk around here, so much so that I had to register again just to reply. The first moment of disappointment came at the end of last season. I hated the whole idea of being stuck on the planet, for me the 'new direction' was backwards. Then when this season started and they were still there, and still there, and still there.

            I stopped watching religiously around episode three or four. I dvr'd it thinking it would be better just to watch it all at once. Nope didn't help. Then thing I liked about the show was the action, adventure and the characters were fleshed out enough but not so much that they overpowered the story.

            This season forget space opera, we are looking at a soap opera. The angst, husbands and wives betraying each other, murder, a shocking 'death'. The revealing trial. If I want that garbage I will watch As the Stomach Turns.

            I know there is more to the show than that but for me all the soap opera-y type stuff has left me with little interest in anything else.

            Comment


              #7
              Did you people even watch the mini-series?

              Did you accomplish that feat without falling asleep?

              You thought New Caprica was a step in the wrong direction... HELLO? That was the point! Baltar chose to go with New Caprica as a political gambit to consolidate power. It was a backward step for humanity.

              Certainly the drama this season has been heightened, but how could it not? These are the only people left. This is humanity. At some point the barriers that had held back the personal entanglements on a colonial ship are going to break down... they have. Roslin says from the very start they need to start having babies. Did you think she meant cloning?

              I'm all for interesting plots and the things we saw in the first 2 seasons.

              However, if season 3 looks like season 1 and season 1 looks like season 5, what was the point? A series is about progression and growth. You may not like how they're doing it, but they're doing nothing different, in as much as they're being faithful to the characters and the progressions they'd make.

              Also, sometimes the naysayers make it sound like we had to watch a whole years' worth of New Caprica. We didn't. We were there for a few episodes.

              I mean, complaining about the growth of the series would be like being disappointed that Helo and Sharon aren't still running around Cylon Occupied Caprica.

              Comment


                #8
                I think the show just has lost some pace. There were episodes where I thought they would pick it up again, like say when they discovered that beacon or when the got to the temple.

                Or maybe they should make episodes different. Maybe make a hole episode out of the perspective of one single person. Or tell the same story from the view of two different people. I think it´s okay to do an episode about love, betrayal and struggle between charackters. But it gets boring quickly. Make an episode with e.g. lots of space battle tactics and then some character developement.
                It´s the variaty that I miss in the episodes...
                Welcome to the zone where normal things don't happen...




                ...very often

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Marauder359 View Post
                  If a series evolved exactly the way you think it should at every point you're either the writer or one bored fan.
                  One of the best quotes I've seen on any BSG board. Wish I'd said it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Desperado View Post
                    And, while I'm at it, the messy masala of a polytheistic society that has maintained traditional racist castes which suddenly develops the moral and ethical fabric to create unions and collective bargaining is a bad joke. The best the polytheistic societies on this tiny blue planet ever came up with were trade guilds. There is a fundamental leap of social and religious evolution that had to happen to evolve past polytheism to monotheism and respect for individual rights that is actually the cornerstone of Judaism before Earthly societies could develop those institutions. OK, so in the BSG world it took a different track? Nah, not buying it. Not when the series is going to end one of two ways: (IMHO)

                    1. They come to Earth, have a final genocidal showdown with the Cylons and the remaining human survivors become the ancient Greeks or,

                    2. They find earth and the lost tribe that landed here and founded Hellenistic society. There will be some good explanation for the loss of all that fancy technology.

                    Tell me something I don't already know please, tick tock, life is too short :-)
                    Did you actually say that a polytheistic society couldn't develop unions? This is your biggest complaint about the religious storyline with BSG? Seriously?

                    Your thoughts, BSG fans?
                    I have come to the conclusion that people who ***** and whine about something (especially a TV show) very rarely actually know what they are talking about.
                    "May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Susan Ivanova

                    "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest. " - Citizen G'Kar

                    "I will see you again, in the place where no shadows fall." - Delenn

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Okay I absolutely love BSG.

                      If you want a stereotypical scifi that just does the same thing over and over again go watch Star Trek Voyager....

                      DS9 was one of the best scifi's ever made. Hell not just scifi but the story itself
                      was great!

                      The same goes for BSG, the people writing this show are really trying their best to create a real good overall story. You have to watch the series in the same way you'd read a book. The first season established the main characters and the main problem. Season two normalized the situation and even a glimer of hope. Season three is like any good middle. It's dark and it brings the situation down, it creates new problems for the characters and reveals new truths that weren't previously known.

                      I'd say the show is going to need 2 more seasons, too ultimately climax and end the storylines.

                      Look at the original Star Wars trilogy.
                      A new hope: It established the characters and problems, and gave a glimmer of hope. (analogous to season 1 and 2)
                      Empire Strikes Back: It was very melancholy, you lose some characters you like and you learned a new truth. (Season 3)
                      Return of the Jedi: climax and closed the storyline (season 4 and hopefully season 5)

                      All great stories follow this pattern, at first everyone thought Empire was way too dark, but in hence sight it's considered the best out of all of them... I'm sure season 3 will be considered one of the greatest (although season 1 is still best in my book)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Sorry, but even though i will still watch BSG feverently, i find it just a tad boring, very few episodes in this season have got me going and put me on edge until the next episode.

                        Most of the episodes have been boring and about character progression without continuing the MAIN story line. Sorry BSG has become lost in the religious ramblings and lost its direction.. the story line of BSG is about escaping cylon tyranny and finding our last bastion of hope in a distant planet called Earth....

                        At present IMO BSG looks like a show that's run out of money and they are just plodding along with weak character story lines because they spent most of it on a couple of major episodes......

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by tgmd View Post
                          Okay I absolutely love BSG.

                          If you want a stereotypical scifi that just does the same thing over and over again go watch Star Trek Voyager....

                          DS9 was one of the best scifi's ever made. Hell not just scifi but the story itself
                          was great!

                          The same goes for BSG, the people writing this show are really trying their best to create a real good overall story. You have to watch the series in the same way you'd read a book. The first season established the main characters and the main problem. Season two normalized the situation and even a glimer of hope. Season three is like any good middle. It's dark and it brings the situation down, it creates new problems for the characters and reveals new truths that weren't previously known.

                          I'd say the show is going to need 2 more seasons, too ultimately climax and end the storylines.

                          Look at the original Star Wars trilogy.
                          A new hope: It established the characters and problems, and gave a glimmer of hope. (analogous to season 1 and 2)
                          Empire Strikes Back: It was very melancholy, you lose some characters you like and you learned a new truth. (Season 3)
                          Return of the Jedi: climax and closed the storyline (season 4 and hopefully season 5)

                          All great stories follow this pattern, at first everyone thought Empire was way too dark, but in hence sight it's considered the best out of all of them... I'm sure season 3 will be considered one of the greatest (although season 1 is still best in my book)
                          Thank The Gods that someone uses their head

                          And too point sometihng out

                          This version of BSG has never been about fighting the Cylons, not about space battles.
                          Its about the PEOPLE, their destiny and beliefs, their flaws, their messed up love lives, their grudges, their pasts and futures and what makes them them.

                          I personally have LOVED the last few episodes, because its not just about a SHIP, its about the people living their lives ON that ship.
                          Blitz

                          www.myspace.com/twilightpeace

                          One was an experiment made to cause destruction in any condition except water, the other was an aquatic expermiment to destroy the world...but in the end...Stitch and Nim: They made an amazing Hula team

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I love BSG, too. It’s gutsy, bold, best scifi acting on the small screen in a very long time. Probably the best since Twilight Zone. Homage to Rod Serling who actually was the inspiration for my career path. Why else would I give a rat’s patootie about what’s happening in Season 3 if I did not love the show? It’s easier to just change channels than rant in the forum.

                            Season 3 went south for me after the Eye of Jupiter episode. Started getting stupid after that.

                            I agree with the observation about running out of money. Cylons, space battles, CGI all cost big bucks to produce. Notice the stories are getting claustrophobically centered around the Galactica interiors sets. Even the fuel processing ship was nothing more than tight shots of old machinery. It fit with the story but the story fit with the low-budget production values.

                            In sci fi, the science is everything. It's SCI(ence) fiction, not metaphysics or comic book religion fiction.

                            Need I quote legions of examples. Star Wars, IMHO, was a piece of CGI-bloated crap after the first blockbuster release. In ended on a bad joke. Do NOT get me started on that POS. All FX, no acting, lame story line. Lucas started huge, finished with an embarrassment. But, I digress again.


                            On the plus side, when scifi pushes the reality envelope successfully include IMO, Children of Men, Minority Report, Alien 1 & 2, 3 was stupid and 4 was just a comic romp with tongue firmly held in cheek. And, of course, my all time classic favorite, Shakespeare’s Tempest done as Forbidden Planet, “monsters of the Id.” I guess you could include FAILSAFE, On The Beach and Dr. Strangelove in the mix, plus many others. Good scifi writing shines on its own and we loyal fans deserve better than what we are seeing in BSG S3.

                            BTW, I do have some professional credentials in this matter since I’m a writer with extensive experience, scripts included. Not a writer on this show so don’t worry your heads about that.

                            And my pro cred doesn’t give me any more right to criticize a show than anyone else. What an incredibly arrogant comment that was. As one who respects viewers and consumers to the max, I realize that we are the ONLY ones who DO have an absolute, unquestionable right and in fact an obligation to comment about the shows we watch. After all, viewers are the CUSTOMERS. And, the customer is always right. A seldom discussed fact of commercial television is that the critics don’t meant diddly squat. Neither do the producers, directors, and most certainly not the writers or actors. The people who call ALL the shots are the advertisers. And their bosses are we consumers (viewers). If we like it and watch and buy the advertisers’ goods and services, the show lives. If not, it dies. Artistic merit has nothing to do with it. It’s all about ratings, eyeballs on commercials or, in the case of HBO, Showtime et al; subscribers. NOTHING else matters to the poobahs who run the shows. Nothing. So, you tell me, who has more right to criticize? Those who watch and pay the price for our entertainment addiction, or someone else?

                            After all, how many fabulous writers/producers/directors have been one-trick ponies and how many have legs to what they do. Zuiker at CSI, the SG family (another spin-off machine), Steven Bochco, Aaron Sorkin, Don Bellesario (Magnum PI silly and short-lived, JAG outstanding and survived an epic 10 seasons), Ridley Scott (NUMB3RS, still strong season 3 and getting better), Shawn Ryan (The Shield simply awesome, The Unit , outstanding, both going strong), etc. – many have had great shows followed by duds. Sorkin is the poster child: The brilliant West Wing and this POS Sunset Strip that was just yanked. Bochco made history with Hill Street Blues yet Over There, despite being a sensational series, well written, beautifully produced, gut-wrenchingly acted, died. Ryan is riding the wave of The Shield and The Unit, but as sure as his name is “Shawn” he too will stumble. Hey, it’s a tough town. And we viewers are a tough audience. As we should be. In fact, if we were more discriminating in our viewing choices and criticized a helluva lot more, TV would be a helluva lot better.

                            So, complain on intrepid viewers and ignore those who would silence your right to kvetch.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Orion's Star View Post
                              Did you actually say that a polytheistic society couldn't develop unions? This is your biggest complaint about the religious storyline with BSG? Seriously?
                              I found myself wondering the same thing. Desperado, can you explain how you came to this conclusion a bit?
                              Words to live by: "When in doubt, shoot at the guy yelling 'Kree!'."

                              Let's try this again: Spoiler-free 'til Season 4.5.

                              EJO on the blooper reel: "I hope you like it... or I'll SQUASH YOUR NUTS."

                              Spoiler:
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