My Journey through Babylon 5

[magictrick]

The telepath subplot mixed into the story was interesting though and it gets followed up in some rather interesting ways. Thankfully, Delenn comes back to the forefront with the next two episodes. "Moments of Transition" really reignites B5's fire for season 4. The lull after the Shadow War has tensed up to where we know we're losing the peace... again. It's just a matter of how this time around. By the time you get around to the end of "Moments of Transition" B5 will be cranking it up to full gear again.

That is good to know. From what has transpired thus far most of the Minbari episodes have been pretty great. I've also come to expect this sort of development from B5. There were a few of these episodes that lulled in the first season and that turned out into a pretty awesome arc.

I'm also hoping that at some point they get into more detail about that planet beside the station. They mention it now and again for various reasons but never really delve deeper into what its all about. It seems that it wasn't built or maintained by neither the Shadows, Vorlons or any of the other advanced races we've been introduced to. It would be cool to know its true purpose.

[Savatage]

Other than Zathras, I don't remember anything about this episode. I gave my brother my dvds so I can't go back and watch. Season 4 was a bit different than any of the others because it wrapped up the Shadow War early and then basically started from scratch on new plot lines. The result being there were some slow set-up episodes in the middle, but like Cold Fuzz said, it'll pick up soon and give you the big payoff episode you've come to expect in B5.

[magictrick]

4x13- Rumors, Bargains and Lies

I didn't realize from previous episodes that the situation on Minbar had escalated to full out civil war. Does this mean the sacred rule "Minbari never kill Minbari" has been broken? How else does civil war work?

I found the conversations between Delenn and Neroon to be interesting. I'm not sure what to make of the ending, if Neroon is actually deceiving her or if it is part of the plan. Lennier once again stepped up and saved the day by being his selfless self.

A lot of time seems to be dedicated to the religious and warrior castes, but there is also a worker caste on Minbar which doesn't seem to be mentioned quite as often. I always wondered why that is.

Other than that not much to say about this episode. The rest of the action on B5 was just filler.

[Savatage]

4x13- Rumors, Bargains and Lies

I didn't realize from previous episodes that the situation on Minbar had escalated to full out civil war. Does this mean the sacred rule "Minbari never kill Minbari" has been broken? How else does civil war work?

I found the conversations between Delenn and Neroon to be interesting. I'm not sure what to make of the ending, if Neroon is actually deceiving her or if it is part of the plan. Lennier once again stepped up and saved the day by being his selfless self.

A lot of time seems to be dedicated to the religious and warrior castes, but there is also a worker caste on Minbar which doesn't seem to be mentioned quite as often. I always wondered why that is.

Other than that not much to say about this episode. The rest of the action on B5 was just filler.

"Minbari never kill Minbari" has become "Minbari castes don't kill Minbari of the same caste". Breaking the Grey Council has created a power vacuum and the Warrior caste feel it's their time to rule. If that means killing some other Minbari, well, so be it.

As for the Worker caste, we never really learn much about them. We know they were in the Grey council, that they're the builders and craftsmen of the Minbari and have their version of Minbari dialect. Beyond that we never get to meet one up close. I'm going to put out some BBQ and a bowl of M&Ms and await Cold Fuzz's wisdom on this. He probably knows more about the Worker claste than I do.

[Cold Fuzz]

4x13- Rumors, Bargains and Lies

I didn't realize from previous episodes that the situation on Minbar had escalated to full out civil war. Does this mean the sacred rule "Minbari never kill Minbari" has been broken? How else does civil war work?

I found the conversations between Delenn and Neroon to be interesting. I'm not sure what to make of the ending, if Neroon is actually deceiving her or if it is part of the plan. Lennier once again stepped up and saved the day by being his selfless self.

A lot of time seems to be dedicated to the religious and warrior castes, but there is also a worker caste on Minbar which doesn't seem to be mentioned quite as often. I always wondered why that is.

Other than that not much to say about this episode. The rest of the action on B5 was just filler.

Just to point out something about what's going on at the station: No, it was not just filler. There is a reason why all that hubbub on the station was taking place and there's going to have a logical payoff later, just like with everything else on B5.

"Minbari never kill Minbari" has become "Minbari castes don't kill Minbari of the same caste". Breaking the Grey Council has created a power vacuum and the Warrior caste feel it's their time to rule. If that means killing some other Minbari, well, so be it.

As for the Worker caste, we never really learn much about them. We know they were in the Grey council, that they're the builders and craftsmen of the Minbari and have their version of Minbari dialect. Beyond that we never get to meet one up close. I'm going to put out some BBQ and a bowl of M&Ms and await Cold Fuzz's wisdom on this. He probably knows more about the Worker claste than I do.

The sacred rule of "Minbari do not kill Minbari" was instituted by Valen. The Warrior Caste has essentially rejected his teachings and so are working by a different set of rules. They're now operating with the mindset the Minbari used to have before the coming of Valen. Of course, this is not a good thing.

As for the Worker Caste, sadly they're always caught in the middle when the Warrior and Religious Castes go at one another. The canon novel To Dream in the City of Sorrows actually explores their role in Minbari society a bit. Now I haven't read the novel in a very long time (late 90s) so I'll rehash what I can remember.

The Worker Caste functioned as the backbone of the Minbari Federation's infrastructure. I remember they were described as the chefs, cleaners, commercial pilots, engineers, construction workers, mapmakers, miners, manufacturers, and basically anyone who didn't fit into the mindset of the Religious or Warrior Castes.

This should give you an idea of what their status is truly like in Minbari society: A member of the Religious or Warrior Castes would never deign to address a member of the Worker Caste in the Worker Caste language. It would be "losing face" if that were to happen. The Workers were essentially obligated to learn all of the Minbari caste languages as they had to interact frequently with both the Religious and the Warriors even though the other castes wouldn't address them in their own language.

Some other Minbari factoids I remembered from the novel: Adronato is the language of the Religious Caste (which we heard a little of in the episode "And Now for a Word.") It's also the most complex of the Minbari primary languages, with grammar being quite convoluted. Apparently the grammar changes depending on who a person is addressing, who the speaker is, and what the topic of conversation is. The Warrior Caste language is very different. It's direct and unambiguous which is a necessity in combat. The Worker Caste language was also simple and to the point, which made it good for things like tech readouts and some such. Also, now that the Shadow War is over, I can say this little blurb about Minbar: Sinclair/Valen knew Ulkesh, the other Vorlon ambassador. That's the other Vorlon's real name. He and Sinclair weren't exactly friends.

During the time of Valen though, the Worker Caste was allowed to join the Rangers in the war against the Shadows. After he departed from Minbar though, the Workers were not permitted to join the Rangers. The Religious and Warrior Castes always struggled for leadership and authority because each believed it was their rightful place to rule. The Workers were servants. Thankfully, there were a few like Delenn who believed otherwise.

I hope you enjoyed the BBQ and M&Ms.

[Savatage]

See, that's why Cold Fuzz is a demigod. I read that book - more recently too - and I don't recall half of that. I remember someone from the working class fixed Sinclair's bed that's it!

[Nolamom]

Fuzz - made you a present. Don't know if it *really* looks like you, but it's a rough approximation of the beard...

[magictrick]

4x14 - Moments of Transition

The Minbari conflict seems to have come to a conclusion rather quickly. It was interesting to see that the Religious and Warrior castes were the ones at odds throughout the whole time, but when it came time to reform the Grey Council it was the Worker caste who got the most seats. Delenn's speech at the end though made perfect sense to me.

I was surprised to find that Lyta was in such a bad position when it came to finances. It seems kind of odd to me that after all she has done to help out the command team wouldn't do something to assist her.

In fact, I don't know if it is just me, but the command team, especially Sheridan, seem to be painted in a different light this season. For some reason I don't sympathize with them as much as before. Whether it is for some of the questionable actions that have been taken or even the lack of action in Lyta's case, the atmosphere surrounding B5 has changed. I'm finding it easier to feel for Garibaldi even though he's undergone the most obvious change in character and personality since his return - a mystery which still hasn't been resolved.

The last scene in this episode came out of nowhere, probably because neither Sheridan or Ivanova had been featured in this episode up until that point. I guess the war just took a dramatic turn following Sheridan's declaration.

One thing I'm curious about - the fleet of ships the Minbari built for the war with the Shadows, are those controlled by the religious caste or warrior caste or both? How come they weren't featured in the civil war on Minbar?

[Savatage]

I won't say much about about Lyta's situation other than it bears watching as we move ahead into next season.

The White Star fleet is the Ranger fleet. Even though it's mostly crewed by members of the religious caste, it isn't controled by the caste. Cold Fuzz can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if Delenn used the Rangers to win a cival war on Minbar it would have been seen as an abuse of power. Plus, the Rangers aren't just Minbari so that would be bringing other races into the conflict.

[Savatage]

Fuzz - made you a present. Don't know if it *really* looks like you, but it's a rough approximation of the beard...

I love it!

[Cold Fuzz]

4x14 - Moments of Transition

The Minbari conflict seems to have come to a conclusion rather quickly. It was interesting to see that the Religious and Warrior castes were the ones at odds throughout the whole time, but when it came time to reform the Grey Council it was the Worker caste who got the most seats. Delenn's speech at the end though made perfect sense to me.

I was surprised to find that Lyta was in such a bad position when it came to finances. It seems kind of odd to me that after all she has done to help out the command team wouldn't do something to assist her.

In fact, I don't know if it is just me, but the command team, especially Sheridan, seem to be painted in a different light this season. For some reason I don't sympathize with them as much as before. Whether it is for some of the questionable actions that have been taken or even the lack of action in Lyta's case, the atmosphere surrounding B5 has changed. I'm finding it easier to feel for Garibaldi even though he's undergone the most obvious change in character and personality since his return - a mystery which still hasn't been resolved.

The last scene in this episode came out of nowhere, probably because neither Sheridan or Ivanova had been featured in this episode up until that point. I guess the war just took a dramatic turn following Sheridan's declaration.

One thing I'm curious about - the fleet of ships the Minbari built for the war with the Shadows, are those controlled by the religious caste or warrior caste or both? How come they weren't featured in the civil war on Minbar?

You bring up a good point with Lyta. The way she's being treated right now will have consequences later. Season 5 will see the final turn for Lyta. Where she ends up is a logical result of what's happened to her.

I loved the Minbari storyline. I wish it had been drawn out more to be honest.

Fuzz - made you a present. Don't know if it *really* looks like you, but it's a rough approximation of the beard...

I love this smiley. My beard in real life is a shade darker but I still love using this. Many thanks for making this.

I won't say much about about Lyta's situation other than it bears watching as we move ahead into next season.

The White Star fleet is the Ranger fleet. Even though it's mostly crewed by members of the religious caste, it isn't controled by the caste. Cold Fuzz can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if Delenn used the Rangers to win a cival war on Minbar it would have been seen as an abuse of power. Plus, the Rangers aren't just Minbari so that would be bringing other races into the conflict.

Quite correct. Delenn wouldn't call upon the Rangers to intervene in that kind of civil war. Minbari matters would be handled internally. That and if she were to use the Rangers to tip the scales, the Warrior Caste and perhaps even the Worker Caste would consider that dishonorable.

I love it!

Yep I do too.

[magictrick]

4x15 - No Surrender, No Retreat

A lot happened in this episode but my favourite scene was once again with Londo and G'kar. Put these two characters together in the same room and you always end up with something special. I did not realize Londo was so focused on righting wrongs and doing what he can for who he now considers friends in Sheridan and the other humans. G'kar did not say as much but his expressions were enough. The final scene at the bar, and the expression on Londo's face was priceless.

As for the battle sequences, it was great to see more of an action-packed episode. It seems that the Whitestar fleet is capable enough to handle Earth's ships. Of course this was only one battle and the element of surprise was also present.

I am curious how far this story line will go - will there actually be a space battle for Earth? Remains to be seen I guess.

[Savatage]

4x15 - No Surrender, No Retreat

A lot happened in this episode but my favourite scene was once again with Londo and G'kar. Put these two characters together in the same room and you always end up with something special. I did not realize Londo was so focused on righting wrongs and doing what he can for who he now considers friends in Sheridan and the other humans. G'kar did not say as much but his expressions were enough. The final scene at the bar, and the expression on Londo's face was priceless.

As for the battle sequences, it was great to see more of an action-packed episode. It seems that the Whitestar fleet is capable enough to handle Earth's ships. Of course this was only one battle and the element of surprise was also present.

I am curious how far this story line will go - will there actually be a space battle for Earth? Remains to be seen I guess.

Things are about to move rapidly so buckle up!

[Cold Fuzz]

4x15 - No Surrender, No Retreat

A lot happened in this episode but my favourite scene was once again with Londo and G'kar. Put these two characters together in the same room and you always end up with something special. I did not realize Londo was so focused on righting wrongs and doing what he can for who he now considers friends in Sheridan and the other humans. G'kar did not say as much but his expressions were enough. The final scene at the bar, and the expression on Londo's face was priceless.

As for the battle sequences, it was great to see more of an action-packed episode. It seems that the Whitestar fleet is capable enough to handle Earth's ships. Of course this was only one battle and the element of surprise was also present.

I am curious how far this story line will go - will there actually be a space battle for Earth? Remains to be seen I guess.

Things are about to move rapidly so buckle up!

No Surrender, No Retreat kicks off the final arc of episodes for season 4, going all the way to "Rising Star."

The White Stars are considerably superior in technology to the Earth warships. If they wanted to destroy their opponents, they could easily do so. But the tactics in this battle and the upcoming battles have been to disable and capture, not destroy. That's much more difficult to do. If you order your ships to pull their punches, that's ultimately going to result in casualties.

[knowles2]

No Surrender, No Retreat kicks off the final arc of episodes for season 4, going all the way to "Rising Star."

The White Stars are considerably superior in technology to the Earth warships. If they wanted to destroy their opponents, they could easily do so. But the tactics in this battle and the upcoming battles have been to disable and capture, not destroy. That's much more difficult to do. If you order your ships to pull their punches, that's ultimately going to result in casualties.

Spoiler:

They are superior to Earth standard fleet, but Earth Shadow technology retrofitted fleet could be consider a match for the White Star fleet. If the White star fleet did not ambush them I would say that they would have won the engagement.

I think they powered down the White Star capabilities in that battle for story purposes, even with partial shadow technology the White Star fleet still should have easily outclassed the entire fleet sent after them. Especially as the White Star surprise the Earth Fleet as well.

The Whitestars were built to take on Shadow vessels after all.