Babylon 5 - The Complete First Time Watch (Spoilers) First watch/Rewatch

[jmoz]

Up to Wheel of Fire

Spoiler:

Wow, just wow. Blew me away some of the things. Londo just grew immensely in character for me because we, the audience, know why he's doing the things he's doing. What a sacrifice. And so true what he said, he could do anything when he did not have a lot of power, but now with all the power, he can do nothing.

You're right Fuzz, really hated how the whole war was pretty background except for a few battle scenes. Hope that the Psycorps thing isn't too much of a background. Wonder if that ship will ever be discovered, the one that stays in hyperspace all the time.

G'Kar's great as usual, although less funny since that other episode. Garibaldi kinda annoyed me but Lochley pulled him out of it which was great.

HOLY CRAP about Leyta, that was awesome, doomsday. Loved that end scene with Garibaldi and Leyta. Revenge is pretty sweet sometimes. Leyta was pretty awesome even though she's totally going against all that Byron was, irony.

Delen's pregnant, that was kinda sweet ish. Weird about the biology and stuff.

Dang, I was really hoping to see Ivanova one more time in the series, even as a guest or something. Dang. Maybe she might show up in the rest of the episodes or the movies, seems unlikely though. Sad that the core group is leaving, everyone almost. Even Delen and Sheridan have to eventually to the new headquarters, yeah?

[Cold Fuzz]

Up to Wheel of Fire

Spoiler:

Wow, just wow. Blew me away some of the things. Londo just grew immensely in character for me because we, the audience, know why he's doing the things he's doing. What a sacrifice. And so true what he said, he could do anything when he did not have a lot of power, but now with all the power, he can do nothing.

You're right Fuzz, really hated how the whole war was pretty background except for a few battle scenes. Hope that the Psycorps thing isn't too much of a background. Wonder if that ship will ever be discovered, the one that stays in hyperspace all the time.

G'Kar's great as usual, although less funny since that other episode. Garibaldi kinda annoyed me but Lochley pulled him out of it which was great.

HOLY CRAP about Leyta, that was awesome, doomsday. Loved that end scene with Garibaldi and Leyta. Revenge is pretty sweet sometimes. Leyta was pretty awesome even though she's totally going against all that Byron was, irony.

Delen's pregnant, that was kinda sweet ish. Weird about the biology and stuff.

Dang, I was really hoping to see Ivanova one more time in the series, even as a guest or something. Dang. Maybe she might show up in the rest of the episodes or the movies, seems unlikely though. Sad that the core group is leaving, everyone almost. Even Delen and Sheridan have to eventually to the new headquarters, yeah?

Spoiler:

The Fall of Centauri Prime and The Wheel of Fire are among the best episodes in season 5 and in the entire series. It's indeed a great tragedy for Londo because he genuinely did become a better person throughout the whole series. Unfortunately, he made some terrible choices. The reality is that no matter how much a person changes for the better and abjures their previous actions, there are consequences to be faced. Londo crossed too many lines. Though Londo himself is not someone I would refer to as evil, many of his previous actions were and there's no equivocating about it. He was directly responsible for the 2nd enslavement of the Narns and numerous other problems. JMS said it himself that answering the question "What do you want?" before "Who are you?" has disastrous results and Londo is a great example of that.

I keep wondering what season 5 would have been like had PTEN not folded and B5 didn't have to transfer over to TNT. I think both the major storylines, the Drakh/Centauri problems and the telepaths, suffered greatly due to a constrained budget, constrained time, or both.

Despite this, we got some high-quality material in The Wheel of Fire. Garibaldi and Lochley having a shared history was greatly unexpected and created a believable bond of sobriety between the two. I don't know if the Psi Corps mobile base (aka the mothership) would ever be find. If it's addressed in the Psi Corps novel trilogy, I'm not certain since I've never read the novels--unfortunately.

You're correct that everyone is leaving. By the time you get to Objects at Rest, there's a feeling of not just the series ending, but the end of an era as well. People who were together at the very heart of monumental events in history are at last going their separate ways. It's a great change for everyone.

P.S. I think that Byron's philosophy would never have worked against the Psi Corps. Then again, I'm not a pacifist--not even close. I believe that non-violence in opposition to an organization like Psi Corps is like trying to play nice with a cobra. It's unrealistic and foolish. Byron's dream of freedom for telepaths is laudable but there's absolutely no way such an organization could be overthrown without blood.

[jmoz]

Objects at Rest

Spoiler:

Excellent two episodes. I was kinda sad at some of the parts though. Everyone is leaving. Londo totally dropped by for those Drak's goals. Did Delen actually see them? I was wondering about that. I wonder how G'Kar ends up going to the Centauri planet years later to kill Londo.

It'll be interesting. Was surprised at Leyta's leaving though. Was hoping she would receive a better sendoff. Then again, her whole personality change was completely weird. Hopefully, G'Kar will be a good influence on her.

Laneer's little thing where he leaves Sheridan in that chamber was totally ridiculous and pretty unbelievable to me. Ridiculous. Think it was a little cheap stunt of having a bit of action in that closure episode. Then again, it might be not and he probably has some journey later on that's relevant to the overall plot. Eh. I still didn't like it.

Pretty decent episodes. Garibaldi blackmailing was pretty great. He may be doing morally questionable deeds, but the recipient of those deeds are the bad guys so it's all good.

Now on to the movies from the order of view I saw here.

[suse]

JMS treatise on spoo...



suse

[Cold Fuzz]

Objects at Rest

Spoiler:

Excellent two episodes. I was kinda sad at some of the parts though. Everyone is leaving. Londo totally dropped by for those Drak's goals. Did Delen actually see them? I was wondering about that. I wonder how G'Kar ends up going to the Centauri planet years later to kill Londo.

It'll be interesting. Was surprised at Leyta's leaving though. Was hoping she would receive a better sendoff. Then again, her whole personality change was completely weird. Hopefully, G'Kar will be a good influence on her.

Laneer's little thing where he leaves Sheridan in that chamber was totally ridiculous and pretty unbelievable to me. Ridiculous. Think it was a little cheap stunt of having a bit of action in that closure episode. Then again, it might be not and he probably has some journey later on that's relevant to the overall plot. Eh. I still didn't like it.

Pretty decent episodes. Garibaldi blackmailing was pretty great. He may be doing morally questionable deeds, but the recipient of those deeds are the bad guys so it's all good.

Now on to the movies from the order of view I saw here.

Spoiler:

It's pretty sad to see everyone moving on. However, the crew's grand deeds have been done. They built something incredible and wonderful with the Alliance, though others on GateWorld question the--ahem--the political validity of an organization like the Interstellar Alliance. But I'm not going there.

Delenn being able to see the Drakh Keepers have always been a curious issue. It's possible that use of the Triluminary has made her sensitive to the Shadows and their servants. She did sense their presence before so it's possible she might be sensing something similar with the Drakh. The novels, unfortunately, don't elaborate on this quirk with Delenn's perceptions.

G'Kar's purpose on Centauri Prime in the distant future is explored in great depth in the Legions of Fire trilogy. They talk about Londo's unfortunate slavery to the Drakh in great detail, as well as how the Alliance eventually manages to free them.

Lyta's large shift in her personality wasn't too surprising to me. She been used by the Vorlons, dumped by the Vorlons, used as a weapon, taken for granted, and repeatedly treated as a disposable asset by any number of characters. She's tired of it all and she's massively pissed. I can sympathize with her as I actually went through a similar thing myself a few years ago (not the Vorlon superweapon thing, but the emotional transformation).

It's sad about Lennier. Bill Mumy, the actor who played Lennier, was massively disappointed by the character's downturn at the very end of the series. However, without Lennier's turn, what would his character have done instead? I think it would have left his character with nowhere to go. I will say only that Lennier does eventually redeem himself, and that his path will eventually intersect...with Lyta's and Garibaldi's.

[Rodney_Mckay]

Sorry! I kinda forgot about my own thread

But until I have time to come and post a lengthy review, I can confirm that I'm making headway into Season 4 post-Shadow War.

[Cold Fuzz]

Sorry! I kinda forgot about my own thread

But until I have time to come and post a lengthy review, I can confirm that I'm making headway into Season 4 post-Shadow War.

Spoiler:

The first few episodes just after the Shadow War have this weird sense of euphoria. Yeah, an incredibly difficult victory was achieved, but there's a lot of work ahead. JMS has called it the uneasy peace...just before the next war.

[jmoz]

Spoiler:

The first few episodes just after the Shadow War have this weird sense of euphoria. Yeah, an incredibly difficult victory was achieved, but there's a lot of work ahead. JMS has called it the uneasy peace...just before the next war.

Calm before the storm.

[jmoz]

Up to Lost Tales

Spoiler:

Wow, those were really excellent. Well except some of them.

The Rangers one kinda made me cringe. That whole shooting room and that punching thing was like wow, I'm gonna look away until you're done doing whatever it is you're doing.

Characters were bit cliched but so was the beginning characters in B5, so it had potential for lots of great things. Was really curious about the aliens of that movie. Guessing they had some connection to maybe the aliens from Thirdspace, or I missed stuff. G'Kar's G'Kar.

Lost Tales was freaking awesome, besides the cool up to date graphics. The new hint of an epic storyline and seeing all the characters in that intro. I was so excited. But then we only saw a few of the characters. lol, why does Sheridan still look like Malibu Ken, but I have major levels of respect for him and the journey he's been through.

Garibaldi was pretty hilarious in Lost Tales, I forget, but he said something really funny. Have to go look it up, unless someone knows what line I'm talking about.

Anyways, good movies, wish there were more movies, was hoping lost tales were more after, had awesome potential. The story telling of JMS is so awesome, much better than almost all the crap that is on tv these days.

[Cold Fuzz]

Up to Lost Tales

Spoiler:

Wow, those were really excellent. Well except some of them.

The Rangers one kinda made me cringe. That whole shooting room and that punching thing was like wow, I'm gonna look away until you're done doing whatever it is you're doing.

Characters were bit cliched but so was the beginning characters in B5, so it had potential for lots of great things. Was really curious about the aliens of that movie. Guessing they had some connection to maybe the aliens from Thirdspace, or I missed stuff. G'Kar's G'Kar.

Lost Tales was freaking awesome, besides the cool up to date graphics. The new hint of an epic storyline and seeing all the characters in that intro. I was so excited. But then we only saw a few of the characters. lol, why does Sheridan still look like Malibu Ken, but I have major levels of respect for him and the journey he's been through.

Garibaldi was pretty hilarious in Lost Tales, I forget, but he said something really funny. Have to go look it up, unless someone knows what line I'm talking about.

Anyways, good movies, wish there were more movies, was hoping lost tales were more after, had awesome potential. The story telling of JMS is so awesome, much better than almost all the crap that is on tv these days.

Spoiler:

Actually J, Garibaldi wasn't in The Lost Tales. Maybe you were thinking of Galen? (the black-robed Technomage that ends up visiting Sheridan from time to time). If you're not too acquainted with Galen, I strongly suggest watching the Crusade spin-off series before watching the B5 series finale, Sleeping in Light.

The Technomages have a large role in the Shadow War and that was supposed to have been explored with Galen, Capt. Gideon, and the storyline for Crusade. Unfortunately, TNT axed Crusade after only a 13-episode run. Thankfully, the Technomage trilogy of novels written by Jeanne Cavelos (all are consider canon by JMS) provides some incredible exploration into who and what the Technomages were. More importantly, the trilogy explores what their link is to the Drakh and the Shadows.

Aside from that, The Lost Tales was supposed to have been the beginning of an ongoing B5 anthology from JMS. Though the DVD sales went extremely well, JMS decided as of 2008 that he was no longer interested in continuing any B5 stories if he doesn't have a bigger budget. He has stated more than once that he's interested in doing a B5 theatrical movie. An attempt was made with the defunct project "The Memory of Shadows." Unfortunately, studio politics and budgeting proved to be the demise of that project, not to mention the fact that Richard Biggs (Dr. Franklin) and Andreas Katsulas (G'Kar) have passed on.

[jmoz]

Spoiler:

Actually J, Garibaldi wasn't in The Lost Tales. Maybe you were thinking of Galen? (the black-robed Technomage that ends up visiting Sheridan from time to time). If you're not too acquainted with Galen, I strongly suggest watching the Crusade spin-off series before watching the B5 series finale, Sleeping in Light.

The Technomages have a large role in the Shadow War and that was supposed to have been explored with Galen, Capt. Gideon, and the storyline for Crusade. Unfortunately, TNT axed Crusade after only a 13-episode run. Thankfully, the Technomage trilogy of novels written by Jeanne Cavelos (all are consider canon by JMS) provides some incredible exploration into who and what the Technomages were. More importantly, the trilogy explores what their link is to the Drakh and the Shadows.

Aside from that, The Lost Tales was supposed to have been the beginning of an ongoing B5 anthology from JMS. Though the DVD sales went extremely well, JMS decided as of 2008 that he was no longer interested in continuing any B5 stories if he doesn't have a bigger budget. He has stated more than once that he's interested in doing a B5 theatrical movie. An attempt was made with the defunct project "The Memory of Shadows." Unfortunately, studio politics and budgeting proved to be the demise of that project, not to mention the fact that Richard Biggs (Dr. Franklin) and Andreas Katsulas (G'Kar) have passed on.

Spoiler:

Oh, I meant that one where Sheridan takes the Excalibur to Earth. That one, sorry forget the names of the episodes and movies and people. Except Ivanova, dang, wish she was in one of the movies. Sigh.

I watched it, he apparently did something that got him sort of ostracized from his brethren because he joined up with Excalibur, but I should rewatch now that I have the background context of things. Have to read the books next, could you possibly revise your order to watch list to include the books maybe?

Oh, that's sad to hear. Did not know that they died. Wow, they seemed young. Sad. And dang, no movie. Wish he still just did the minimovies. Their continued success would have probably given him more of a leverage to do a theatrical release movie. But that's still difficult because the general public don't really know Babylon 5 verse too well, would have to really dumb it down so that an average viewer could pick it up. But then again, he is an excellent writer.

[Cold Fuzz]

Spoiler:

Oh, I meant that one where Sheridan takes the Excalibur to Earth. That one, sorry forget the names of the episodes and movies and people. Except Ivanova, dang, wish she was in one of the movies. Sigh.

I watched it, he apparently did something that got him sort of ostracized from his brethren because he joined up with Excalibur, but I should rewatch now that I have the background context of things. Have to read the books next, could you possibly revise your order to watch list to include the books maybe?

Oh, that's sad to hear. Did not know that they died. Wow, they seemed young. Sad. And dang, no movie. Wish he still just did the minimovies. Their continued success would have probably given him more of a leverage to do a theatrical release movie. But that's still difficult because the general public don't really know Babylon 5 verse too well, would have to really dumb it down so that an average viewer could pick it up. But then again, he is an excellent writer.

Spoiler:

With the books, you can read the Technomage trilogy at virtually any point now. Chronologically, the Technomage trilogy comes before Crusade so it would actually be good to read those three first. But you can always come back to them later. The beauty of those books is as long as you know where it is in the B5 timeline, you can read them purely because they're good books. I personally found the trilogy to be incredible writing, especially the final book. This order would probably work for you:

A Call to Arms, and then

Technomage Trilogy:
Casting Shadows
Summoning Light
Invoking Darkness

and then:

• Crusade Series
• Psi Corps trilogy (optional, I've never been able to find copies of this)
• The Lost Tales
• Centauri Trilogy (Legions of Fire)
• Sleeping in Light

[jmoz]

Ahh, ok. Thanks, will have to get started. Will green you when I get the chance. Also, did we do the usual pleasantries? Hi, how goes things, how's the partner in bed/partner at work/kids? Etc. etc. Blah, blah. lol, nah, hope all is well and not too tiring.

[Cold Fuzz]

Ahh, ok. Thanks, will have to get started. Will green you when I get the chance. Also, did we do the usual pleasantries? Hi, how goes things, how's the partner in bed/partner at work/kids? Etc. etc. Blah, blah. lol, nah, hope all is well and not too tiring.

Talking B5 would definitely be part of our usual pleasantries. But work is...work. The wheels keep spinning everything keeps hitting the fan every single time I work on a weekend. One of my supervisors at work joked that I may be a nice guy, but I seem to attract trouble. I told him, "That's OK because I'll be trouble...for them." Garibaldi would be proud.

[geekywraith]

Started watching B5 last week and I've almost finished watching season 1.