The Covid19 thread

[Womble]

I took a bus a while ago. Maybe a third of the people wore masks, most of them on their chin or with their nose out.

The trouble with maintaining quarantine and protective measures for a long time, people hate discomfort. They get tired of being inconvenienced and they lose the initial fear factor after months of this never-ending stream of warnings. A short-but-severe crisis is easier for us as a species to handle than a slow-moving one stretched out in time.

The Israeli government has raised the fines for not wearing masks in public areas from 200 to 500 shekels (120 euros). We'll see if it helps.

What concerns me even more, one-third of the unemployed people in Israel are about to finish their unemployment benefits days, and that includes my wife whose 50 days will run out in early July (and lots of my colleagues who used up their unemployment days while on unpaid leave, then got fired).

[Annoyed]

Europe is keeping Americans out until further notice.

Something about a lack of properly dealing with this thing called covid-19.

Good. You guys gotta watch out for yourselves, and people can’t pat 45 on the back praising him for closing the borders to keep the virus out if others wont’ do the same.

NY is talking about blocking or requiring quarantine for people coming from Florida, and this is probably not the only state to be thinking of such things. And at least 26 states are seeing numbers climbing as of late. It's more than clear to me that our govt. is pressing us to re-open far too soon.

Governments are going to have to do more aid/stimulus packages... And I mean effective programs. Trial baloons have been floated about giving "back to work" bonues and such... Idiots! What good is that going to do the guy whose job has gone away for good or cannot risk re-entering the job market due to risk of catching CV 'cause it could be fatal for them?

This isn't gonna be cheap, and I hope someone in a position of power is trying to figure out a way to send China the bill.

[Falcon Horus]

Our Security Council convened today and the press conference just ended... Unfortunately, they didn't make facemasks mandatory in stores. Ah well, ... nice try, I guess.

Anyway... this is what they decided for phase 4 which goes in on July 1st:

* our bubble of 10 contacts may expand to 15 people.

* Public events may happen with a max of 200 people if it's inside and 400 if it's outside. At all times keeping to the safety rules. If those can't be guaranteed, the events can't happen. If all goes wall, the numbers will be doubled from August 1st onward.

* Event organizers will have a tool at their disposal with a checklist to guide them.

* Facemasks will not be made mandatory in stores. Should the infection rate grow again, this will be rescinded and they will be mandatory. So, "common sense" wins and they expect people to use it. Good luck with that!

* As of the 1st of July, it's also allowed to go shopping with more people -- from the same household. Up until now, that was limited to one person per household. And the time spend inside the shops is also no longer limited to 30 minutes. Social distancing, obviously, has to be maintained at all time.

* Markets may contain more than 50 stalls.

*************

I'm disappointed about the facemask rule, but beyond that... I'm okay with the new rules.

[Annoyed]

Our Security Council convened today and the press conference just ended... Unfortunately, they didn't make facemasks mandatory in stores. Ah well, ... nice try, I guess.

Anyway... this is what they decided for phase 4 which goes in on July 1st:

* our bubble of 10 contacts may expand to 15 people.

* Public events may happen with a max of 200 people if it's inside and 400 if it's outside. At all times keeping to the safety rules. If those can't be guaranteed, the events can't happen. If all goes wall, the numbers will be doubled from August 1st onward.

* Event organizers will have a tool at their disposal with a checklist to guide them.

* Facemasks will not be made mandatory in stores. Should the infection rate grow again, this will be rescinded and they will be mandatory. So, "common sense" wins and they expect people to use it. Good luck with that!

* As of the 1st of July, it's also allowed to go shopping with more people -- from the same household. Up until now, that was limited to one person per household. And the time spend inside the shops is also no longer limited to 30 minutes. Social distancing, obviously, has to be maintained at all time.

* Markets may contain more than 50 stalls.

*************

I'm disappointed about the facemask rule, but beyond that... I'm okay with the new rules.

And you wonder why we won't let you out again,

Seriously, facemasks ought to be optional for folks who wear glasses. Reason: warm, moist breath coming out from the top edge of the mask fogs your glasses up, making it impossible to see.
Oh, and then there's this... all that breath escaping around the edge of the mask pretty much proves the ineffectiveness of the masks to begin with. Useless.

Again, we shouldn't be opening and forcing people back to work until AFTER the precautions are no longer recommended or required.

[mad_gater]

I took a bus a while ago. Maybe a third of the people wore masks, most of them on their chin or with their nose out.

The trouble with maintaining quarantine and protective measures for a long time, people hate discomfort. They get tired of being inconvenienced and they lose the initial fear factor after months of this never-ending stream of warnings. A short-but-severe crisis is easier for us as a species to handle than a slow-moving one stretched out in time.

The Israeli government has raised the fines for not wearing masks in public areas from 200 to 500 shekels (120 euros). We'll see if it helps.

What concerns me even more, one-third of the unemployed people in Israel are about to finish their unemployment benefits days, and that includes my wife whose 50 days will run out in early July (and lots of my colleagues who used up their unemployment days while on unpaid leave, then got fired).

or it could be that people have major and valid concerns about re-breathing their own carbon dioxide for 8 hours a day every work day

[VampyreWraith]

NY is talking about blocking or requiring quarantine for people coming from Florida, and this is probably not the only state to be thinking of such things. And at least 26 states are seeing numbers climbing as of late. It's more than clear to me that our govt. is pressing us to re-open far too soon.

Governments are going to have to do more aid/stimulus packages... And I mean effective programs. Trial baloons have been floated about giving "back to work" bonues and such... Idiots! What good is that going to do the guy whose job has gone away for good or cannot risk re-entering the job market due to risk of catching CV 'cause it could be fatal for them?

This isn't gonna be cheap, and I hope someone in a position of power is trying to figure out a way to send China the bill.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/06...uarantine/amp/

NY, NJ, and CT will be requiring people to quarantine if they're coming from states that have a high infection rates (higher t g an 10% I think).

And you wonder why we won't let you out again,

Seriously, facemasks ought to be optional for folks who wear glasses. Reason: warm, moist breath coming out from the top edge of the mask fogs your glasses up, making it impossible to see.
Oh, and then there's this... all that breath escaping around the edge of the mask pretty much proves the ineffectiveness of the masks to begin with. Useless.

Again, we shouldn't be opening and forcing people back to work until AFTER the precautions are no longer recommended or required.

If the mask is fitted properly your glasses don't fog up. There are a few people at work who wear glasses and their masks don't fog up and they say they don't have that problem as long as the mask is on the right way.

Even if breath is escaping out the sides of the mask, which really shouldn't be happening if if the mask is on right, the mask is still blocking a lot of it from projecting out further. There's a lot of people out their who don't bother to cover their sneezing and coughing, at least if they're wearing a mask all of those virus/germ filled droplets aren't being projected as far into the air. No one is claiming that masks are 100%, that's why masks shouldn't be used as an excuse not to social distance. There are just certain situations where maintaining 6ft of distance from other people is near impossible (some store isles are barely 6ft wide, and sometimes streets and public transportation can be crowded), in those cases wearing a mask is necessary to help minimize the spread of the virus.

[Annoyed]

If the mask is fitted properly your glasses don't fog up. There are a few people at work who wear glasses and their masks don't fog up and they say they don't have that problem as long as the mask is on the right way.

Even if breath is escaping out the sides of the mask, which really shouldn't be happening if if the mask is on right, the mask is still blocking a lot of it from projecting out further. There's a lot of people out their who don't bother to cover their sneezing and coughing, at least if they're wearing a mask all of those virus/germ filled droplets aren't being projected as far into the air. No one is claiming that masks are 100%, that's why masks shouldn't be used as an excuse not to social distance. There are just certain situations where maintaining 6ft of distance from other people is near impossible (some store isles are barely 6ft wide, and sometimes streets and public transportation can be crowded), in those cases wearing a mask is necessary to help minimize the spread of the virus.

Riddle me this: Where can you buy a proper fitting mask? A: You can't, unless you have a special pipeline as a result of being in health care industry, or well placed politicians and relatives. The only things on the shelves for purchase are this:

This is what I can find on the shelves and it is not form fitting, and cannot be made to seal at the edges. Translation: It's a useless piece of crap meant to make the politicians feel they are doing something. Hell, the bra-masks we were joking about a month or so back are probably better fitting than this.

If you want something effective, you need something like this at a bare minimum:


Problem is that you can't buy these, anywhere. At least not around here. I've seen them advertised on those TV ads.. "Please allow 3-6 weeks for delivery", but I'm not stupid enough to do anything but fast forward through those ads.

And even this style isn't all that airtight. I had a box of 5 of these that I purchased long ago at the start of this mess, and they did not prevent the eyeglass fogging problem, at least not on my face.

[Annoyed]

Oh, and as far as the wisdom of opening things up again goes....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/no...jCa?li=BBnb7Kz

Younger people in their 20s, 30s and 40s are increasingly testing positive for COVID-19, a marked shift from the early months of the pandemic when older adults bore the brunt of cases. The shift is especially evidence in states now seeing spikes in cases, including Florida and Texas.

Experts attribute the rise in cases in younger adults to a variety of factors, including increased testing but, even more, large gatherings of people. The coronavirus spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets from coughing, sneezing, talking and singing.

"I've seen bars and restaurants that look like it's New Year's Eve 1999, not a care in the world, nobody wearing masks, standing shoulder to shoulder," said Dr. James McDeavitt, senior vice president and dean of clinical affairs at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

Give people (youngsters in particular) a chance to be stupid and they will jump at the chance every time.

[Annoyed]

And, in the arena of not knowing what the hell we're doing yet....

Granted, this comes out of China, so it may be a work of fiction, but...

COVID-19 antibodies may fade in as little as 2 months, study says

We have no business even thinking about returning to whatever they want to pass off as "normal" yet. Even with all the other problems, we simply don't know enough about this yet.

[VampyreWraith]

Riddle me this: Where can you buy a proper fitting mask? A: You can't, unless you have a special pipeline as a result of being in health care industry, or well placed politicians and relatives. The only things on the shelves for purchase are this:

This is what I can find on the shelves and it is not form fitting, and cannot be made to seal at the edges. Translation: It's a useless piece of crap meant to make the politicians feel they are doing something. Hell, the bra-masks we were joking about a month or so back are probably better fitting than this.

If you want something effective, you need something like this at a bare minimum:


Problem is that you can't buy these, anywhere. At least not around here. I've seen them advertised on those TV ads.. "Please allow 3-6 weeks for delivery", but I'm not stupid enough to do anything but fast forward through those ads.

And even this style isn't all that airtight. I had a box of 5 of these that I purchased long ago at the start of this mess, and they did not prevent the eyeglass fogging problem, at least not on my face.

You don't need an n95 mask to go to the grocery store or even to work since everyone is supposed to be social distancing on top of wearing a mask. The masks you use to go out don't need to be 100% airtight. As long as everyone is wearing something it's effective enough, if you wear one, only a fraction of what you breathe out escapes through the mask, and if someone else is close by you and they are also wearing one, only a fraction of what just got through your mask is getting through their mask. You're also not supposed to be that close to someone for that long where it would become a health issue. Medical professionals need them because they need to have prolonged contact with sick people in order to do their job.

Those regular disposable masks have have little wire piping on top. You adjust that to fit on your nose, unless you're constantly panting and huffing and puffing, not much breath should be getting out. I personally don't like these because I can't breathe wearing them and they taste like chemicals. I use a reusable cloth one. After work I wash it with antibacterial hand soap, hang it up to dry and wear it again the next day. I can breathe better using these. There are all kinds of reusable masks available for purchase, some of them are 2 ply, some are 3ply, some have little pockets where you can put in a filter. They're also not too expensive right now, since basically everyone is selling them.

[Annoyed]

You don't need an n95 mask to go to the grocery store or even to work since everyone is supposed to be social distancing on top of wearing a mask. The masks you use to go out don't need to be 100% airtight. As long as everyone is wearing something it's effective enough, if you wear one, only a fraction of what you breathe out escapes through the mask, and if someone else is close by you and they are also wearing one, only a fraction of what just got through your mask is getting through their mask. You're also not supposed to be that close to someone for that long where it would become a health issue. Medical professionals need them because they need to have prolonged contact with sick people in order to do their job.

If there's enough blowby to fog my glasses, that's too much.
What about people going back to work in stores, cubicle farms and such. That's hardly passing contact.
Oh, and in many stores, 100% social distancing is not possible. Not enough room in the aisles.

Those regular disposable masks have have little wire piping on top. You adjust that to fit on your nose, unless you're constantly panting and huffing and puffing, not much breath should be getting out. I personally don't like these because I can't breathe wearing them and they taste like chemicals. I use a reusable cloth one. After work I wash it with antibacterial hand soap, hang it up to dry and wear it again the next day. I can breathe better using these. There are all kinds of reusable masks available for purchase, some of them are 2 ply, some are 3ply, some have little pockets where you can put in a filter. They're also not too expensive right now, since basically everyone is selling them.

Maybe there are better ones on sale there, but at the stores around here, most don't have any, and the ones that are there are basic, plain jane ones like I illustrated above, no strip for the nose and the elastic straps that hold them on break if you look at 'em funny.

Before I ran out of them, I re-used the good style masks I had. brought it home, sprayed it with iso. alcohol & hung it next to the car keys.

Question. Do you wear glasses?

[VampyreWraith]

If there's enough blowby to fog my glasses, that's too much.
What about people going back to work in stores, cubicle farms and such. That's hardly passing contact.
Oh, and in many stores, 100% social distancing is not possible. Not enough room in the aisles.



Maybe there are better ones on sale there, but at the stores around here, most don't have any, and the ones that are there are basic, plain jane ones like I illustrated above, no strip for the nose and the elastic straps that hold them on break if you look at 'em funny.

Before I ran out of them, I re-used the good style masks I had. brought it home, sprayed it with iso. alcohol & hung it next to the car keys.

Question. Do you wear glasses?

I wear glasses only when I drive, though I'm supposed to wear them when I watch TV and stuff. I'm nearsighted, I can't see detail or writing at a distance but that doesn't bother me enough to wear glasses all the time. I don't wear a mask when I drive though, but I might try it out sometime. I do have coworkers that wear glasses all the time and they wear a mask throughout the day. The question about about glasses fogging up was brought up to them on the first day we were back and both girls said that they don't have a problem with their glasses fogging up, they bend the wire up top to fit around the top of their nose and it's fine. Maybe they have different shaped glasses, I dunno.

I know grocery store aisles are tight, that's why people need to be wearing masks in them. Passing by someone in an aisle usually doesn't take long and you're only in close quarters for a bit. Unless they're coughing or sneezing away you're risk of catching anything in that situation is minor. And if someone is coughing and sneezing away, wouldn't you rather they be wearing a mask so that they aren't projecting possibly virus filled droplets many feet in multiple directions. The mask would be absorbing most of that, and what does get by isn't going to go anywhere near as far, it's not like the aresol droplets people realease when they breathe, talk, sneeze and cough, float around all over and linger in the air for an extended period of time.

The people working in cubicle farms are supposed to be spaced out so that no one is sitting to close to anyone else (at least they are supposed to be in NY). Employers are also supposed to be providing mask for their employees in NY state. If someone's employer is forcing them to work in unhealthy conditions they should file a complaint with the state department of labor. I'm sure NY being as cash strapped as it is would be happy to investigate so that they could fine the offending employer.

At work we have to be spaced out all the time, we can't even sit next to each other on meals, we can lose our jobs if we don't follow the health and safety guidelines. I work for a large company and they know that they'll get hit with a fine if someone complains or they get caught having their employees working in unhealthy conditions.

I bought my reusable cloth masks on Amazon, they have lots of different kinds on sale there. The store I work for has packs of them available online too (my store itself doesn't have them yet), I might buy some of those too eventually.

[Annoyed]

I wear glasses only when I drive, though I'm supposed to wear them when I watch TV and stuff. I'm nearsighted, I can't see detail or writing at a distance but that doesn't bother me enough to wear glasses all the time. I don't wear a mask when I drive though, but I might try it out sometime. I do have coworkers that wear glasses all the time and they wear a mask throughout the day. The question about about glasses fogging up was brought up to them on the first day we were back and both girls said that they don't have a problem with their glasses fogging up, they bend the wire up top to fit around the top of their nose and it's fine. Maybe they have different shaped glasses, I dunno.

I know grocery store aisles are tight, that's why people need to be wearing masks in them. Passing by someone in an aisle usually doesn't take long and you're only in close quarters for a bit. Unless they're coughing or sneezing away you're risk of catching anything in that situation is minor. And if someone is coughing and sneezing away, wouldn't you rather they be wearing a mask so that they aren't projecting possibly virus filled droplets many feet in multiple directions. The mask would be absorbing most of that, and what does get by isn't going to go anywhere near as far, it's not like the aresol droplets people realease when they breathe, talk, sneeze and cough, float around all over and linger in the air for an extended period of time.

The people working in cubicle farms are supposed to be spaced out so that no one is sitting to close to anyone else (at least they are supposed to be in NY). Employers are also supposed to be providing mask for their employees in NY state. If someone's employer is forcing them to work in unhealthy conditions they should file a complaint with the state department of labor. I'm sure NY being as cash strapped as it is would be happy to investigate so that they could fine the offending employer.

At work we have to be spaced out all the time, we can't even sit next to each other on meals, we can lose our jobs if we don't follow the health and safety guidelines. I work for a large company and they know that they'll get hit with a fine if someone complains or they get caught having their employees working in unhealthy conditions.

I bought my reusable cloth masks on Amazon, they have lots of different kinds on sale there. The store I work for has packs of them available online too (my store itself doesn't have them yet), I might buy some of those too eventually.

MAYBE on the argument that passing someone in a supermarket aisle is low risk (but still risky for older folks for whom this could be serious) but 8 hours in a cubicle farm or store? No way are those masks and distancing effective. Perhaps if everyone in the office had their own office with filtered air circulation, but in a farm? You're gonna get it.

Oh, and businesses following guidelines? Ha. Simple. employee gripes. Business fires employee. Business has lawyers, ex-employee doesn't. Game over. And remember, they don't have to tell you the real reason they are firing you. They could even fire you and tell you the reason is to lessen density to meet govt. recommendations.

[Falcon Horus]

or it could be that people have major and valid concerns about re-breathing their own carbon dioxide for 8 hours a day every work day

Which is absolutely ridiculous... If healthcare workers can do it, what's stopping everyone else?

The glasses problem is something I have to deal with as well, and indeed when you can close it off at the top or fit it around your nose, the fogging is far less.

Some of the facemasks -- even homemade ones -- have wiring at the top which makes it possible to bend it around the nose.

[mad_gater]

Which is absolutely ridiculous... If healthcare workers can do it, what's stopping everyone else?

The glasses problem is something I have to deal with as well, and indeed when you can close it off at the top or fit it around your nose, the fogging is far less.

Some of the facemasks -- even homemade ones -- have wiring at the top which makes it possible to bend it around the nose.

All I know is that I'll be glad when we can stop wearing the darn things....cuz I know that despite what you think...there are people who have serious issues trying to breathe through a mask....I can manage if not pushing a load of carts but when pushing a load of carts I slip my mask down so I don't pass out from oxygen deprivation....it's also difficult wearing them when it's extraordinarily hot and humid outside