The Covid19 thread

[Annoyed]

It is the raison d'etre of this country to be that one door that never gets slammed shut for Jewish people around the world. The world (USA included) slammed too many doors shut on us the last time Jewish people needed shelter.

In that case. if that is the decision of the people and their government because of their values, that is their absolute right. But, then they have to accept the consequences of that decision, as well as what they perceive as the benefits.

[Annoyed]

Let me start with some numbers from Belgium.

All stores have re-opened since May 18. Outdoor sports are back for groups of max 20 and under the guidance of a professional coach. Indoor sports are still prohibited. Schools are open again for 6, 7, 12 and 18 year olds which equals to the first, second and sixth year of primary school, and the final year of highschool. They have class on alternating days with social distancing and face mask guidelines.

Our next phase of re-opening won't happen until after the 8th of June, depending on how the current one evolves. So far all is well. Our infection rate is down, cases are down, deaths are down -- significantly from the previous weeks.

Facemasks are mandatory for everyone over 12 on public transport and strongly advised for going shopping or whenever you're in a situation where the social distance cannot be guaranteed.

My company has a 2-days-at-the-office/3-days-at-home work plan in effect, since only 50% of the office space can be occupied at any given time, which means we have to play musical chairs. Half of our desk spaces has been taped off (luckily not my desk) and we have to schedule our office time. I don't plan to go back until the first week of June since I want to see how the second week of our halfway normal out-of-lockdown-situation progresses -- picked wednesday and friday since those days are relatively quiet ones as far as traffic goes. We are still upholding technical unemployement until, at the very least, the 30th of June, which means all of us have 1 day "off" each week until the end of June except for a week with a holiday so not during the first week since monday the 1st of June is a national holiday.

Our current statistics:
1,415 patients are still in hospital, among which 268 are in ICU
15,123 have been released from hospital and declared cured
9,212 have died, of which more than half died in hospital settings and are confirmed cases, the other half are care home deaths and contain confirmed and suspected cases (reminder that Belgium has the most accurate death stat in the world)

In the passed 24 hours:
56 new patients were admitted to hospitals
26 deaths were recorded, of which 14 died in hospital and 12 in a care home of which 67% was confirmed by testing

So, our steady decline continues.

****

I hope you folks don't have a resurgence.. that bit about sharing desks worries me. Latest felgercarb from the CDC aside, we've been told this lives for days on surfaces..

Myself, I've been quite vocal about thinking that we are re-opening way too early, and when we should re-open.
I now think we should remain in our current "closed" state until such time as the recommendations / requirements for masks, social distancing and all that crap are lifted. None of those are really effective. If it's not safe to be in public, it's not safe to be at work, either.

[Annoyed]

Pretty much what's happening to Brussels Airlines.
And many other airlines in the world.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for the commercial passenger airline industry. At least in the US, they have mistreated and abused their customers to the point where I don't give a rats rear end if they go out of business or not. I know it will be a cold day in you-know-where before I get on another one of the damned things.

[Skydiver]

One explanation I would suggest is that a large part of American arrivals in recent months have been American Orthodox Jews who hurried to emigrate from the land of opportunity and private healthcare to Israel to enjoy our single-payer healthcare. Many of them settled in Bnei Braq and Jerusalem where the population largely ignored quarantine regulations until the government sent in the army.

Or they were people going ‘home’ or on pilgrimage for the Easter and Passover holidays.

[Skydiver]

Living on a surface and being ‘strong’ or intact enough to infect someone can be two different things.

Think about it. Say you sneeze glitter. Someone sneezes 3 feet away from you and you’re covered with glitter. Good luck getting rid of it. May even get some on your lips, in your nose or your eyes.

Drop glitter on the table. Gonna be there for days. But ya gotta dip/rub your fingers in it, bring them to your mouth and nose and eyes and basically put that glitter inside your body.

All virus degrades outside the body. AIDS, as I recall, is relatively harmless once it leaves the body. Meaning you have a high viral load of AIDS, cut yourself, bleed on the ground, the chance of you infecting someone is pretty low. COVID is likely the same way.

So sneeze on a counter, yeah, it’s contaminated. And the virus may live on that surface for a period of time. But to pick it up from there you have to, well literally pick it up. Touch/rub that surface then bring your hands to your mouth, nose or eyes and introduce it to your body. And then to be infected you also need to deliver enough virus to your body. Which is the thoughts now behind the length of time you are exposed to a person.

Say Jane is COVID positive but asymptomatic. Every time she breathes out she exhales 10 virus spores. If you are within 6 feet of her you might breathe in one or more of those spores. And the longer you are close to her the more she breathes, the more you breathe and, theoretically, the more virus you inhale.

Which is one reason bars, theaters, restaurants and churches are high transmission areas. They are places where people are in close proximity to each other for extended periods of time, increasing the chances that they will inhale airborne virus particles.

With discipline, the surface transmission can be less. Clean surfaces, wash your hands and you break that cycle. But the air in enclosed areas could POSSIBLY become a virus Petrie dish. The more people that meet, the more that MIGHT be carrying it, the longer they are there, the more they exhale or talk the more virus particles they can put into the air.

My biggest qualm about the CDC is my fear that they are under pressure to tweak their messages to avoid angering leadership. I understand that their (and other agencies) reporting will change as further research proves or disproves theories. That’s the evolving nature of science. many scientific theories change over time (how about Pluto for example? The ability to predict tornadoes? Thinking the Coelacanth was extinct?)

Science, by its very nature and definition, means things change as we learn more.

[Annoyed]

My biggest qualm about the CDC is my fear that they are under pressure to tweak their messages to avoid angering leadership. I understand that their (and other agencies) reporting will change as further research proves or disproves theories. That’s the evolving nature of science. many scientific theories change over time (how about Pluto for example? The ability to predict tornadoes? Thinking the Coelacanth was extinct?)

Science, by its very nature and definition, means things change as we learn more.

That right there is why I don't believe a word they're saying at this point. They misled and deceived folks right from the start to avoid angering China. Then, they outright lied to the US population by telling us that masks were not needed, and were ineffective anyway. And now they're walking back on their statements that it can live for days on surfaces.

Oh, and have you noticed? The administration and many others are engaged in an enormous PR campaign to re-open everything. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Sorry, what's the old saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[Skydiver]

Reopening is a huge rabbit hole of ‘he said/she said’ where the ‘why’ is a huge matter of debate.

Regardless of the why the how is going to be exceedingly tough.

I mean I don’t care of my town totally opens up. I’m not going to the movies. I’m still going to go out only if I need to and for what I need. Recreational shopping is, at the very least, months away for me. (And will be done with bottles of hand sanitizer and a face covering).

Even if they were having a 4th of july fireworks show I wouldn’t go. Its easy for me not to go, I’m not much of a social person in normal times.

So those that think ‘it’ll all get back to normal next week’ are fooling themselves. Some will run out yes. ANd we will likely have a second wave. But there will be others that stay away, stay home and work to protect themselves until there is a vaccine

[Gatefan1976]

Sigh.

[Annoyed]

Sigh.

I did see your post before it was deleted. By the time I looked at it again to consider a response, it was gone. I figured I better keep my mouth shut, my response would likely have been deleted too.

[Annoyed]

Reopening is a huge rabbit hole of ‘he said/she said’ where the ‘why’ is a huge matter of debate.

Regardless of the why the how is going to be exceedingly tough.

I mean I don’t care of my town totally opens up. I’m not going to the movies. I’m still going to go out only if I need to and for what I need. Recreational shopping is, at the very least, months away for me. (And will be done with bottles of hand sanitizer and a face covering).

Even if they were having a 4th of july fireworks show I wouldn’t go. Its easy for me not to go, I’m not much of a social person in normal times.

So those that think ‘it’ll all get back to normal next week’ are fooling themselves. Some will run out yes. ANd we will likely have a second wave. But there will be others that stay away, stay home and work to protect themselves until there is a vaccine

As far as the lockdown and such, it has had very little serious effect on me, I'm a hermit by nature anyway. So just about anything I went out for before this all started was an "essential service" anyway.

I'm really not happy with this massive PR campaign and push to open everything up prematurely. nowdays, I think the trigger should be when they lift all the social distancing/masks and such requirements. If it is hazardous for people to be in home depot or whatever essential store they're in, it's gonna be even more hazardous to stuff people back into cubicle farms, regardless of masks, which are not effective and distancing.

[Gatefan1976]

from what I have seen/heard/read people will go back when they feel safe, no matter what any governor or fed says.
On this we are on the same page, opening to fast would just be dangerous.

[Gatefan1976]

I did see your post before it was deleted. By the time I looked at it again to consider a response, it was gone. I figured I better keep my mouth shut, my response would likely have been deleted too.

That's alright dude.

[Skydiver]

As far as the lockdown and such, it has had very little serious effect on me, I'm a hermit by nature anyway. So just about anything I went out for before this all started was an "essential service" anyway.

I'm really not happy with this massive PR campaign and push to open everything up prematurely. nowdays, I think the trigger should be when they lift all the social distancing/masks and such requirements. If it is hazardous for people to be in home depot or whatever essential store they're in, it's gonna be even more hazardous to stuff people back into cubicle farms, regardless of masks, which are not effective and distancing.

While I agree with you it seems the main criteria for opening - gotta do what they can to boost those second quarter numbers and placate the share holders.

Our govt has this thing about ‘paying lazy people’ and write it as ‘getting back to work’. So they wrap it in patriotism and ‘constitutionality’ when the real motive is ‘if states open up and people CHOOSE to stay home then they do not qualify for unemployment so get those lazy louts back to work’.

Since an overwhelming number of jobs have few to no benefits, such as sick leave and vacation, if people don’t work they don’t eat and they can be fired for not coming in thus freeing up a job for someone that will work.

The economy can’t handle people not working and paying taxes for as long as it would take to break the transmission chain, so instead those in control are wrapping reopening in patriotism and freedom to get people back to work - even if it kills them.

They’re going for herd immunity now - while they remain sequestered away and ‘protected’ by the ability to be tested whenever they want.

The general public are sacrificial lambs to get the economy moving and keep the share holders happy. It’s to the point that those of us that choose or are able to protect ourselves with masks or staying home are now mocked because we do not answer the dog whistle.

[Gatefan1976]

SMH
It's good to be the king, as Mel Brooks said.

[Annoyed]

Our govt has this thing about ‘paying lazy people’ and write it as ‘getting back to work’. So they wrap it in patriotism and ‘constitutionality’ when the real motive is ‘if states open up and people CHOOSE to stay home then they do not qualify for unemployment so get those lazy louts back to work’.

Since an overwhelming number of jobs have few to no benefits, such as sick leave and vacation, if people don’t work they don’t eat and they can be fired for not coming in thus freeing up a job for someone that will work.

The economy can’t handle people not working and paying taxes for as long as it would take to break the transmission chain, so instead those in control are wrapping reopening in patriotism and freedom to get people back to work - even if it kills them.

Employment levels are going to be sky high for at least a year or two. Just look at the plans; Businesses operating at 25 - 50% capacity after they re-open? That much is known. How long will that last? And when it does come time for restaffing at full levels, many of these folks aren't going to be re-hired.

State unemployment spending is going to be very high for quite a while. I think the feds might help the states with that kind of thing, but I don't know about any other unrelated state bailouts and such.