The Covid19 thread

[Annoyed]

People who do not *obey* the "social distancing" recommendation either do so because
1) they may claim they haven't been told in CLEAR, simple words
2) they think it's cool to break "rules"... thus ignore consequences
3) they want to test the system to see if this virus is for real or not.

That is true for any place on this planet, and mostly, also especially true among the "young and restless" ages.... not just *urban* sprawlers and dwellers. Lots of *urbanites* working in rural / suburban locations, such as nursing homes and assisted living facilities in NJ... wonder just where all those infected folks came from that got sick with this COVID-19 virus...? Ummm. It wasn't the residents / patients already living in the nursing homes... those folks weren't permitted to go anywhere since near the end of March (2020) outside of their building premises, except maybe doctor visits. No visitors and no shopping... so many are currently low on personal supplies.

Up to a few weeks ago, the residents have been on lockdowns with NO visitors. Only staff workers and delivery people were allowed into the building ...and since everyone has to be tested daily with rigorous health exams, some of them showed up sick with the virus. So, where did *those* workers get infected from and how? Did they NOT "social distance", or clean their hands and keep their face clear of germs...NOT wear a mask, when they should/could have...?

That is the best argument for keeping things closed at this time. We simply don't know enough about how this potentially fatal disease spreads, if and how long immunity lasts, or many other things.

[Annoyed]

We are being given a very specific leeway here because of the subject. I fully expect this thread to close down once this is over to keep in line with the 2020 vision statement.

You may be right, but myself, I'm hoping they re-think that. There is obviously a demand for such an outlet around here, based on the number of folks who do blur the lines into politics (myself included). It's also very difficult to have a discussion about almost anything in the real world because politics is so intertwined with everything these days. It is the process by which most societies discuss and choose a course of action.

[SGalisa]

(Rant...?) I hate to repeat this, but Unless (Generic) *you* are already in a comfy position to stay home, got lots of finance to fall back on during hard times, life is generally good for *you*... of course, *you* might tell other people to stay OUT OF WORK. Live off of TPTB freebies. Except...Ummm. Nothing is free... somewhere, there will be a payback TOLL coming down the road. This is NOT utopia, yet...

Regarding NY & other high health risk areas opening...or NOT. (Generic) If you folks want NY to stay shutter closed, because of COVID19 cases popping up or whatever paranoia excuse comes up -- Don't complain when the monies finally dry up. It's NOT fair to the other states to to come to the rescue and by *forced* hands, BAIL *your state* out from the disaster, which is being allowed to fester because of decisions made by TPTB.

But also, Please keep in mind----
If people who are not wearing a facial "mask" cannot abide by the guidelines to "not breathe or cough" on someone else's space or person, and keep their paws off if known to be contaminated, then those people *should* stay home / stay within their own local areas, except for medical travel or other life-sustaining matter (family care / home / vehicle repair). If they can work from home, because their employer has some arrangement made that such a system can be put firmly into place, then, by ALL means DO that!

But don't punish the rest of us who were trying to work towards retirement--but now cannot, because of (generic) *your* insecurities, failure to comply to the latest COVID19 guidelines (mostly for being in public places), or personal paranoia. As I've mentioned before, if the store clerks can work, and people now out of jobs can go shopping, they could certainly be working.... Think of this another way, the LONGER people get used to staying home, the more they will *want* to stay home permanently... at someone else's expense. THINK ABOUT THAT! Unless any of (generic) *you* support that system, it's Not such a utopian *dream-world* then for the remaining workers.
It was TPTB decision to close the world down, which has shut other people down -- domino effect. Money used to *grow on trees* (fabric type)... now it's just all numbers or heading into that general direction... digital.

If (Generic) *you* who are working, OR have enough cash stashed away somewhere to last into next year and perhaps 2 or 5 years from now, that's wonderful for YOU. Lots of other folks do NOT have such wonders to help support them... until that magical vaccine shows up... or antibody testing becomes more available, is nearly 100% reliable, and given at cheaper rates.

Many people cannot wait an entire year to find out if they are declared *safe* to work or not. AND, as has been noted, there is NO guarantee that antibodies from COVID19 will help ward off future encounters. Not to also mention, some other NEW viral/bug that might show up in the meantime. That happens... you+we are ALL DOOMED. Deja vu.

Spoiler:

Sure, this is a different slant than what my former (now locked) *earth's future* topic was mentioning, but the end goal results will be the same (disastrous results!). I'm not going to discuss the zillions of conspiracies circulating about *who* on this planet is plotting *what*... and there are plenty about projecting the target year 2030 as the first goal-post to reset this world in TPTB wannabee direction. But if people don't want to heed the caution-warning signs heading into that direction, so be it.

I've said this before---- that this COVID19 may be seasonal. If it *is*, then expect anything that opens to come back and bite us ALL in the upcoming winter months to SHUT everything down AGAIN. Once that happens, the world just might totally collapse financially, and FOOD wise. Already expecting lots of man-made "famines" because of various farms destroying their crops to large scale businesses, and food industries destroying their foods because of one reason or another.

These situations are currently man-made caused, due to orders at the highest tiers from TPTB, whoever they may be, and will ONLY get worse. They could have been totally avoided, by heeding advice, but OH NO, people gotta put the world on HOLD, and hope in TPTB that our life / world doesn't fall apart in the process. It's been predicted, foretold, cautioned, warned, etc., but NO ONE was or is listening that should be listening.
Why COVID19, and why NOW? Why didn't these shut-downs occur with other viral issues or disasters? Whether they are aware of it or not, or deliberately causing this for whatever nefarious reason(s), TPTB are having a free-for-all destroying this planet in ways that would have never been affected if these shut-downs didn't go into never-ending effect.


Oh, and if those of you who think you haven't gotten sick with a variant mutation of the COVID19 bug, yet, and are afraid or *terrified* of getting it, there's that wonderful vaccine coming near the end of next year that just might give you the bug that way instead... Keep waiting... that is, IF you can survive on your own sustenance / storage bins that long. It's going to be a very long year ahead for that shiny new day to finally show up. Just hope TPTB don't plan / enforce some horrid new system into place by the end of that time frame, that makes the lives of people even worse than it currently may seem.

No thanks to this world and its various COVID-19 situations, I may have to look at finding a different job, that does NOT involve stock/cashier clerk work, due to my degenerative cartilage condition (DDD). Would prefer staying away from disability, because that would hurt physically, not just financially. Would love to do something that does involve *STAYING at HOME* (yay!) , but I would need to find professional people skilled in the areas of what I need to go into some sort of back-up plan for those "rainy day" retirement funds... which currently doNOT exist.
Unfortunately, in the meantime, I (personally) cannot rely on this world any more for a *happy* retirement. There is not going to be any such thing, except for those people who are already *blessed* with the means to do so and have one.

[Annoyed]

(Rant...?) I hate to repeat this, but Unless (Generic) *you* are already in a comfy position to stay home, got lots of finance to fall back on during hard times, life is generally good for *you*... of course, *you* might tell other people to stay OUT OF WORK. Live off of TPTB freebies. Except...Ummm. Nothing is free... somewhere, there will be a payback TOLL coming down the road. This is NOT utopia, yet...

Regarding NY & other high health risk areas opening...or NOT. (Generic) If you folks want NY to stay shutter closed, because of COVID19 cases popping up or whatever paranoia excuse comes up -- Don't complain when the monies finally dry up. It's NOT fair to the other states to to come to the rescue and by *forced* hands, BAIL *your state* out from the disaster, which is being allowed to fester because of decisions made by TPTB.

But also, Please keep in mind----
If people who are not wearing a facial "mask" cannot abide by the guidelines to "not breathe or cough" on someone else's space or person, and keep their paws off if known to be contaminated, then those people *should* stay home / stay within their own local areas, except for medical travel or other life-sustaining matter (family care / home / vehicle repair). If they can work from home, because their employer has some arrangement made that such a system can be put firmly into place, then, by ALL means DO that!

But don't punish the rest of us who were trying to work towards retirement--but now cannot, because of (generic) *your* insecurities, failure to comply to the latest COVID19 guidelines (mostly for being in public places), or personal paranoia. As I've mentioned before, if the store clerks can work, and people now out of jobs can go shopping, they could certainly be working.... Think of this another way, the LONGER people get used to staying home, the more they will *want* to stay home permanently... at someone else's expense. THINK ABOUT THAT! Unless any of (generic) *you* support that system, it's Not such a utopian *dream-world* then for the remaining workers.
It was TPTB decision to close the world down, which has shut other people down -- domino effect. Money used to *grow on trees* (fabric type)... now it's just all numbers or heading into that general direction... digital.

If (Generic) *you* who are working, OR have enough cash stashed away somewhere to last into next year and perhaps 2 or 5 years from now, that's wonderful for YOU. Lots of other folks do NOT have such wonders to help support them... until that magical vaccine shows up... or antibody testing becomes more available, is nearly 100% reliable, and given at cheaper rates.

Many people cannot wait an entire year to find out if they are declared *safe* to work or not. AND, as has been noted, there is NO guarantee that antibodies from COVID19 will help ward off future encounters. Not to also mention, some other NEW viral/bug that might show up in the meantime. That happens... you+we are ALL DOOMED. Deja vu.

Spoiler:

Sure, this is a different slant than what my former (now locked) *earth's future* topic was mentioning, but the end goal results will be the same (disastrous results!). I'm not going to discuss the zillions of conspiracies circulating about *who* on this planet is plotting *what*... and there are plenty about projecting the target year 2030 as the first goal-post to reset this world in TPTB wannabee direction. But if people don't want to heed the caution-warning signs heading into that direction, so be it.

I've said this before---- that this COVID19 may be seasonal. If it *is*, then expect anything that opens to come back and bite us ALL in the upcoming winter months to SHUT everything down AGAIN. Once that happens, the world just might totally collapse financially, and FOOD wise. Already expecting lots of man-made "famines" because of various farms destroying their crops to large scale businesses, and food industries destroying their foods because of one reason or another.

These situations are currently man-made caused, due to orders at the highest tiers from TPTB, whoever they may be, and will ONLY get worse. They could have been totally avoided, by heeding advice, but OH NO, people gotta put the world on HOLD, and hope in TPTB that our life / world doesn't fall apart in the process. It's been predicted, foretold, cautioned, warned, etc., but NO ONE was or is listening that should be listening.
Why COVID19, and why NOW? Why didn't these shut-downs occur with other viral issues or disasters? Whether they are aware of it or not, or deliberately causing this for whatever nefarious reason(s), TPTB are having a free-for-all destroying this planet in ways that would have never been affected if these shut-downs didn't go into never-ending effect.


Oh, and if those of you who think you haven't gotten sick with a variant mutation of the COVID19 bug, yet, and are afraid or *terrified* of getting it, there's that wonderful vaccine coming near the end of next year that just might give you the bug that way instead... Keep waiting... that is, IF you can survive on your own sustenance / storage bins that long. It's going to be a very long year ahead for that shiny new day to finally show up. Just hope TPTB don't plan / enforce some horrid new system into place by the end of that time frame, that makes the lives of people even worse than it currently may seem.

No thanks to this world and its various COVID-19 situations, I may have to look at finding a different job, that does NOT involve stock/cashier clerk work, due to my degenerative cartilage condition (DDD). Would prefer staying away from disability, because that would hurt physically, not just financially. Would love to do something that does involve *STAYING at HOME* (yay!) , but I would need to find professional people skilled in the areas of what I need to go into some sort of back-up plan for those "rainy day" retirement funds... which currently doNOT exist.
Unfortunately, in the meantime, I (personally) cannot rely on this world any more for a *happy* retirement. There is not going to be any such thing, except for those people who are already *blessed* with the means to do so and have one.

Just 2 points...
First, many states such as NY have had budget problems well before CV showed up. NY was almost 7 billion in the hole at the start of this mess, and many politicians see this as an opportunity to get the feds to pay for their state-level screw ups. That is wrong, and should not be allowed to happen.

Second, and more importantly, there is a very long list of pre-existing conditions that make the risk of death or serious disease from CV far higher for the people that have them. Many folks are pushing for premature re-opening, and by doing so, they are placing their lives at risk.

Granted, for the young and healthy, CV doesn't seem to pose all that great a risk. But re-opening doesn't just have those low risk people returning to work. It also forces the high risk individuals back into the office or whatever, where the odds of catching it are fairly high as we have not yet come up with anonymous, accurate testing or a vaccine. So, premature re-opening is deliberately placing the lives of high risk individuals in jeopardy for the financial gain of others.

Sorry, but I'm not going to agree that that is an ethical course of action.

[Gatefan1976]

If only you had an effective social safety network...…..
The opening lines of the US constitution, in big, bold letters is WE, THE PEOPLE.
There is no inherent wrong in allowing the states to govern themselves, but for -right now- it's the federal response that matters, and don't give me any BS that "no one could see this coming" or that the federal government can implicitly wash its hands of this response (which it has done, live on camera, by MANY people)
The current administration has been in power for almost 4 years, at what point can you demand it be held accountable for it's failings?
I've seen stories of governers of both parties either succeeding or failing to do their duty as leaders, and those that fail, no matter party should get kicked to the curb by the voters and those that have responded well, no matter party should keep their seats.
What you need, in a moment of "national crisis", as this has been declared, is national leadership, and weather you like it or not, that's the federal government.
It can take a back seat again (if that's what you want) AFTER, but for NOW, it's what you NEED.

[Annoyed]

If only you had an effective social safety network...…..
The opening lines of the US constitution, in big, bold letters is WE, THE PEOPLE.
There is no inherent wrong in allowing the states to govern themselves, but for -right now- it's the federal response that matters, and don't give me any BS that "no one could see this coming" or that the federal government can implicitly wash its hands of this response (which it has done, live on camera, by MANY people)
The current administration has been in power for almost 4 years, at what point can you demand it be held accountable for it's failings?
I've seen stories of governers of both parties either succeeding or failing to do their duty as leaders, and those that fail, no matter party should get kicked to the curb by the voters and those that have responded well, no matter party should keep their seats.
What you need, in a moment of "national crisis", as this has been declared, is national leadership, and weather you like it or not, that's the federal government.
It can take a back seat again (if that's what you want) AFTER, but for NOW, it's what you NEED.

What if the people of a state (or states) CAN'T kick errant governors and other officials to the curb because all of the voting power in a state is concentrated in a large city? There is nothing like the Electoral College at the state level to provide a way around the tyranny of the cities. Just speaking for my own self, most of the people I talk to IRL despise our current governor, for good reasons, and the general opinion is that hanging is too good for him. But we also know that he will not be driven out of office.

Aside from failing at the very start, the Feds have done a good job in providing support and assistance so far. The Federal stimulus bills, expansion of unemployment has made this situation far more livable for many of the citizens. Granted, there are parts of the Federal govt. that have put their priorities on advancing their own political agenda, but fortunately, they didn't prevail. At least some parts of the federal govt. is also showing leadership by rejecting the statements of the WHO and trying to place the blame for this where it properly belongs, China.

[Gatefan1976]

What if the people of a state (or states) CAN'T kick errant governors and other officials to the curb because all of the voting power in a state is concentrated in a large city?

So, the people don't count if they live in a city?

There is nothing like the Electoral College at the state level to provide a way around the tyranny of the cities.

Tyranny?
You mean you want to alter the balance so they have less of a voice than rural / suburban folks.
This is in direct contradiction to your own constitution.

Just speaking for my own self, most of the people I talk to IRL despise our current governor, for good reasons, and the general opinion is that hanging is too good for him. But we also know that he will not be driven out of office.

Err, because the people, the actual PEOPLE want to keep him?
Let me tell you something, as you are so fond of telling me that because I don't live in the US I should not comment. Cuomo, despite all his failings is being seen GLOBALLY as a leader who has had to make the tough decisions to keep your state safe and get you guys out of the pit you find yourself in now. You want to hang him? Join one of the moronic militia's that turn up armed with guns and ignore the social distancing rules in your precious "red states" based on what your "fake news" media that you watch tells you.
I've tried to bridge the divide, I've done it here and in PM's but you seem incapable of seeing that, so what am I supposed to do?
I could put you on ignore, but that stops the conversation and I don't agree with that stance, but damn you frustrate the hell out of me, not because you have a different opinion, but you are utterly unwilling to even compromise on position.
Years ago Magi and I had a conversation about guns, and as he is in rural PA, he made the case that he needed a semi auto for pest control, I argued against anyone needing them. In the end, after several pages, I agreed with his need for such a weapon because it served a purpose -for him-
All I am asking is for you to keep a somewhat open mind, be willing to see both sides, not just one.
Is that really too much to ask for?

Aside from failing at the very start, the Feds have done a good job in providing support and assistance so far. The Federal stimulus bills, expansion of unemployment has made this situation far more livable for many of the citizens.

Not by choice though, was it?
You had MONTHS of time to address this issue, but if you look at raw footage and tweets by people they have downplayed and frankly ignored the issue. The CARE act was a bi-partisan response, not done by the WH, but by your congress, so who exactly should you be thanking?
Yes congress is part of the federal government, but who is in charge of it right now? You like what they have done but you bemoan who is in charge. The WH could have done so much more to protect it's citizens, but it did not, so who failed here?

Granted, there are parts of the Federal govt. that have put their priorities on advancing their own political agenda, but fortunately, they didn't prevail. At least some parts of the federal govt. is also showing leadership by rejecting the statements of the WHO and trying to place the blame for this where it properly belongs, China.

And exactly WHO is leading that charge for a independent inquiry into the failings of "the system" to know how and why this virus became an issue? Frigging Australia, picking a political fight with it's largest trading partner because it's the right thing to do for the safety of all. We are getting SLAMMED by Chinese press, they are saying we are being stupid and hostile towards them, they are even threatening us with "potential consequences" in militaristic tones.
So, don't tell me that your federal government has been "effective", it's one rolling ball of stupid. Weather you like it or not, "the west" looks to the US for guidance, and in this case it has failed, not just locally, but globally.

[SoulReaver]

What if the people of a state (or states) CAN'T kick errant governors and other officials to the curb because all of the voting power in a state is concentrated in a large city? There is nothing like the Electoral College at the state level to provide a way around the tyranny of the cities.

since you're talking tyranny of the minority, why not puish this to its logical conclusion & call for absolute monarchy? that way you got 1 person who's got as much power as millions of citizens QED

[SoulReaver]

btw apparently they're discovering a new symptom every week
thef is that thing - the multifunction swiss army knife of viruses?

I know the whole "escaped from a lab" thing's supposed to be just a conspiracy theory but...

[Gatefan1976]

since you're talking tyranny of the minority, why not puish this to its logical conclusion & call for absolute monarchy? that way you got 1 person who's got as much power as millions of citizens QED

That would point out the hypocrisy.
Wasn't there some country that fought a war over that?

[Gatefan1976]

btw apparently they're discovering a new symptom every week
thef is that thing - the multifunction swiss army knife of viruses?

I know the whole "escaped from a lab" thing's supposed to be just a conspiracy theory but...

Why do you think we are pushing for an independent inquiry?
I want the facts, and if this was a lab experiment gone wrong, so be it. It would not be the first time a nation has gone playing around with this kind of thing and did it go sideways, would it?

I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon of "it must have been" I want the facts. If it was a lab experiment, or the "wet markets" failing to have proper controls, so be it. One has blame, the other is far more accidental.

[mad_gater]

btw apparently they're discovering a new symptom every week
thef is that thing - the multifunction swiss army knife of viruses?

I know the whole "escaped from a lab" thing's supposed to be just a conspiracy theory but...

*puts on tinfoil hat*

or it could be that there's a widespread vested interest in keeping people isolated from each other and dependent on the government

[SGalisa]

btw apparently they're discovering a new symptom every week
thef is that thing - the multifunction swiss army knife of viruses?

I know the whole "escaped from a lab" thing's supposed to be just a conspiracy theory but...

You mean like the COVID-19 toes?
Here's what I thought was strange about the toes... I had seen info on that weeks ago. Just about that time, my neighbor was confirmed CV19 positive as well as a friend of ours who sent us a nice "miss you" card in the snail mail. That is also about the same time when I noticed that my own toes were turning purple. I thought I had a circulatory issue going on, or some heart related ailment. Almost all of my toes on both feet were turning purplish, and I had a weird bump on one of my toes that wouldn't go away. Plus, I had a 99.5 F elevated temperature or mild "fever," which also lasted for about a day.

I didn't tell anyone, because I didn't want to go to the hospital if it was just a circulatory issue that I could work on correcting. It finally cleared up about a week ago, but freaked me out when it showed up. I thought my body was slowing dying, toes on up..! Heart-conditions are inherited in my family's history. And yes, there were more chest pains, too. Plus, extreme fatigue, which I thought was just from a lack of exercise... going up and down stairs all day.

Some of the medical "experts" have finally added in "runny nose" into their symptoms list. I had that during the 2nd round of the mystery virus that took about 6 weeks to completely heal (ended around middle of January 2020). Increased my zinc intake, and that helped dry up the runny nose. Worked better than the substitute z-pack/antibiotic I was prescribed. So, I was sick for about 7 or 8 weeks with what (I still believe) may have been an early, mild mutation of COVID-19...

[Falcon Horus]

Update on Belgium...

To the outside world, it seems to look like our tiny country is being ravaged to extinction by Covid-19 because we literally count all deaths. The ones that are, and the ones that are suspected. The latter goes up and down whenever tests come back positive or negative. We literally take excess deaths into account as well.

Why does Belgium have so many Coronavirus deaths?

Since that article was on the 20th of April, 2020, our numbers have risen somewhat so here are the current ones as it stands today:

7 924 deaths
12 378 people cured from corona
3 044 people still in hospital, of which 655 in ICU

We have a total of 50 267 confirmed infections so far.

Since we flattened the curve, and our numbers have been going down, we have our first restrictions lifted as of today.

1. Other than stores, restaurants and cafes, most other companies are allowed to gradually open up again. If the numbers stay down, stores will be able to follow from next week onwards. Schools should be back from the 18th onwards.

2. Parents where one of the partners is not working from home anymore, or single parents, may take their kids back to daycare. Previously this was only open to children of healthcare workers or essential personnel.

3. Everyone above the age of 12 must wear a mask on public transport, which includes the Thalys and Eurostar trains to London, Lille, Paris and Amsterdam. Not wearing one, will get you barred from boarding.

4. As of today, you may engage in sports which take place in open air and where maintaining an appropriate distance is possible, like fishing, kayakking, horse riding, golf and tennis. However, with regards to tennis, you may not pick up the balls of your opponent. Only your own. You also may meet with 2 other people while doing your preferred sport, but they always have to be the same 2 people.

5. Hospitals and doctors are back to treating non-emergent cases. As far as going to doctor's goes, people are still asked not to come in person if it's, for example, to renew prescriptions. When you do have to go, you have to wear a face mask at all times and either go alone, or only bring one other person.

6. Other safety measures are still in place: hand washing, desinfecting places and hands, keeping our distances, no seeing family members, and no non-essential moving around

Why in the world would anyone use this COVID-19 vaccination process as a means to be approved to work or not, when OTHER illnesses have occurred in the past, and employment abilities and opportunities didNOT stop those... So why this, and why ONLY COVID-19 now..?

Probably because Covid-19 has such a high infection rate, and spreads much faster from person-to-person than anything else we've seen in relation to a global pandemic.

This is not counting the Spanish Flu, or Ebola. The first happened during a time when the world was in ruins after WWI and trying to get back onto its feet, and ebola was never a global pandemic (not in the modern age anyway).

'Fraid it doesn't work that way. The employee doesn't make the choice about whether to work at home or not. The employer does. And it doesn't matter if the job can be done from home or not.

The rule is indeed simple. If your company opens up for business, you, as the employee, are expected to show up for work unless your employer has explicitly told you otherwise (as is the case for me and my company's policies at the moment).

I do imagine, whenever there is a vaccine, that it will be come mandatory and sought after. The next frustration will be, well they said ‘we can make hundreds of millions of vaccines’....well we need billions.
So it will probably go to the most vulnerable first (and the rich and connected of course), the the rest of us eventually.

Basically the flu shot.

The more susceptible and vulnerable get first dips, the rest can dip in too if they so desire.

I could have a flu shot each year if I want to, paid for by my company, but I have no interest in it. At the same time, most of my colleagues do so "herd immunity" is assured.

The sad part was seeing all those facial masks and thinking of it as TAPE over everyone's mouth.

They're nothing like tape. Maybe people simply don't want to spend too much time out in the open, fearing there might be a higher risk of infection should they do so.

However, as a person who relies on seeing lips form words (I don't call it lipreading cause that's not exactly what I do) in a crowded area to understand a person, face masks are not ideal.

I have issues with hearing people in a crowd. It's like listening to white noise.

Various people in the Medical community say that the COVID-19 virus doesNOT like soap. Soap breaks down the wall or something in the virus cell, and thus it dies.

You didn't know?!?
Why else wash your hands with soap?

There was a little video one of our science guys did for kids at the start of it all, but it's mostly in Dutch so it's probably not gonna make much sense. It does have pictures but again, there's more talking in Dutch than there are pictures showing what soap does to the virus... in the case of the little video, Lieve Scheire replaces the virus with oil.

...parents or guardians who have to care for sick or vacationing kids on the home front.

Errmm... nope, not what "working-from-home" is for.

You try combining working from home, with a toddler running around or a sick kid. Or someone who have to care for. That's an impossible job.

What happens now, is literally driving many of colleagues who are parents up the walls.

BTW, how does anyone here think that the retail / "ESSENTIAL" folks feel being forced to work, while *non-important* folks / loonies stay home..? And if healthy people can shop in supermarkets, etc. with masks, why can't they work? This whole system currently makes ZERO sense.

Because mass infections is less likely to occur with less people out and about -- public transportation comes to mind which I'm sure is filled to the brim with commuters on normal days.

People who do not *obey* the "social distancing" recommendation either do so because
1) they may claim they haven't been told in CLEAR, simple words
2) they think it's cool to break "rules"... thus ignore consequences
3) they want to test the system to see if this virus is for real or not.

All three should sign a waver they won't go seeking medical care when it hits them bad.
They can do whatever they like in their own home.

Outside of it, they have a responsibility towards others who probably do not share those feelings/opinions.

(Rant...?) I hate to repeat this, but Unless (Generic) *you* are already in a comfy position to stay home, got lots of finance to fall back on during hard times, life is generally good for *you*... of course, *you* might tell other people to stay OUT OF WORK. Live off of TPTB freebies. Except...Ummm. Nothing is free... somewhere, there will be a payback TOLL coming down the road. This is NOT utopia, yet...

I have savings, yes... and am still working. But that doesn't mean I have a cushy life and could probably go without a decent income. That's just not the case.

I have rent to pay, bills to pay, food to buy, online stuff that I need (like my desk chair that should have arrived today but didn't).

I could probably live off my savings for a while, but I would like to buy a house in the next 2 years and that means I have to have some savings left in order to get a decent loan from the bank.

Oh, and if those of you who think you haven't gotten sick with a variant mutation of the COVID19 bug, yet, and are afraid or *terrified* of getting it, there's that wonderful vaccine coming near the end of next year that just might give you the bug that way instead...

You really think it's a walk in the park, getting sick with Covid-19, don't you?

Otherwise, why else would you be so flippant about it.

Yes, the damn thing scares the living daylights out of me.
I am, I think, a rather healthy person but I don't know how my immune system would react to it, so instead of finding out, I'd rather not.

I'm not gonna wait around in my bubble for that shot to come around in the next year or so, but I am going to do my damnest to protect myself and the people I care about, and if that means staying home for as long as it takes, then so be it.

My best friend is an at-risk person so yeah... whatever precaution I can take.

What you need, in a moment of "national crisis", as this has been declared, is national leadership, and weather you like it or not, that's the federal government.
It can take a back seat again (if that's what you want) AFTER, but for NOW, it's what you NEED.

But do not have.

[SoulReaver]

*puts on tinfoil hat*

or it could be that there's a widespread vested interest in keeping people isolated from each other and dependent on the government

so far almost every GOP-controled state has also imposed a lockdown on its citizens (few exceptions being rural & very sparsely populated states)

the epidemic would also be very useful as an excuse for the current government to postpone next election (possibly sine die)

Why do you think we are pushing for an independent inquiry?
I want the facts, and if this was a lab experiment gone wrong, so be it. It would not be the first time a nation has gone playing around with this kind of thing and did it go sideways, would it?

I'm just not going to jump on the bandwagon of "it must have been" I want the facts. If it was a lab experiment, or the "wet markets" failing to have proper controls, so be it. One has blame, the other is far more accidental.

btw they've reopened those wet markets