Flat Earthers and other regressions

[Chaka-Z0]

Because knowledge does not change what we are.
We know more, but do nothing about it.
Knowledge has proven to be ineffective in changing behaviour.
If we want to change, we actually WANT to change.

What about the condom? No behavior change?

It is the doom of men that we all forget.

I've heard that before and I think it's a negative approach. I'm way too positive of a guy to even consider this.

[Gatefan1976]

What about the condom? No behavior change?

nope, we still shag like bunnies, the condom let us keep doing it.
[quote]
This is the value of conservatism, being aware of the risk, progressivism gives us the choice.

I've heard that before and I think it's a negative approach. I'm way too positive of a guy to even consider this.

It's quote from Merlin in one of the first movie adeptations of Excalibiur.
We forget.
we ALWAYS forget, and it's not negative, it's a judgement of history. it's not nice, it's not soothing, but it is accurate.
We forget.
Perhaps we should remember?

[Annoyed]

This discussion reminds me of a quote from Khan in Star Trek TOS - "Space Seed"

Nothing ever changes, except man. Your technical accomplishments? Improve a mechanical device and you may double productivity, but improve man and you gain a thousandfold. I am such a man.

We have certainly improved our tools, but we have not improved ourselves.

One must break out from the capitalism mode by engaging in for instance the outdoors on occasion and learning skills that might not be useful on the spot but important to survive.

Why? Capitalism, while not perfect has produced the most successful society in human history, while socialism/communism has failed wherever it took hold.

I bet Annoyed rejects evolution. Its only a theory

Actually, I do believe in evolution.

[Chaka-Z0]

Okay for the record this discussion has taken multiple vectors and it's become a bit confusing

we ALWAYS forget, and it's not negative, it's a judgement of history. it's not nice, it's not soothing, but it is accurate.
We forget.
Perhaps we should remember?

It is YOUR judgment of history and your own defeatist way of thinking and I don't give a snapple how you twist it I'm not ever going to think that, so we'll need to agree to disagree.

You want to believe we've always been hopeless and we can't change, that's on you buddy. It isn't a fact, it's a perception. I understand your interpretation of the term evolution but that ultimately is a question of semantics.

Why? Capitalism, while not perfect has produced the most successful society in human history, while socialism/communism has failed wherever it took hold.

I don't know what we're talking about anymore, basically Magi was talking how much we're stuck in our little capitalism hamster ball (work - eat- kiss wife - sleep - reset) and I responded by saying that sometimes we forget to learn the basics since we're stuck in a comfortable automated life, such as outdoor skills.

[Annoyed]

Okay for the record this discussion has taken multiple vectors and it's become a bit confusing



It is YOUR judgment of history and your own defeatist way of thinking and I don't give a snapple how you twist it I'm not ever going to think that, so we'll need to agree to disagree.

You want to believe we've always been hopeless and we can't change, that's on you buddy. It isn't a fact, it's a perception. I understand your interpretation of the term evolution but that ultimately is a question of semantics.



I don't know what we're talking about anymore, basically Magi was talking how much we're stuck in our little capitalism hamster ball (work - eat- kiss wife - sleep - reset) and I responded by saying that sometimes we forget to learn the basics since we're stuck in a comfortable automated life, such as outdoor skills.

We ARE stuck on the treadmill. It's just that that treadmill is the best we've come up with to date.

[Chaka-Z0]

We ARE stuck on the treadmill. It's just that that treadmill is the best we've come up with to date.

Sure I'm not arguing that. Everything goes fine until the treadmill breaks down. I've seen it firsthand, many families realized how screwed they were when the tornadoes hit this winter here, many without even the means to light a fire or access to food & water.

Actually that treadmill works so well that it gives the opportunity to some to come up with ridiculous theories such as Flat Earth, climate change denial and the Earth being 6k years old (wink wink SGAlisa).

[magi877]

it doesn't matter what form of govt. or economy you have, in all cases there are people at the top of the ladder, people in the middle and people on the bottom, and in all cases those higher up do better than those beneath them a the expense of those beneath them.

That's how humanity seems to be wired.

yes, any 'advances' are normally balanced out by regressive/restrictive policies or reactions on the use of the item or the practice of using any advancement

example-- internet is a marked advancement for human info sharing and communication and so much more, but its use is restricted or otherwise regulated in much of the world

some rules are good of course but many just serve to check true freedom

then too, advancements like tech actually regress education and the application of common sense-- ex: people getting lost using a GPS and they don't even know how to use a paper map--or that they even exist. worse, they do not develop a trust in their intuition and blindly follow what their tech is telling them to do

like turning right up the little used dirt road instead of staying on pavement, when it is clear that the way to your destination should be the well traveled one

[mad_gater]

Okay for the record this discussion has taken multiple vectors and it's become a bit confusing



It is YOUR judgment of history and your own defeatist way of thinking and I don't give a snapple how you twist it I'm not ever going to think that, so we'll need to agree to disagree.

You want to believe we've always been hopeless and we can't change, that's on you buddy. It isn't a fact, it's a perception. I understand your interpretation of the term evolution but that ultimately is a question of semantics.



I don't know what we're talking about anymore, basically Magi was talking how much we're stuck in our little capitalism hamster ball (work - eat- kiss wife - sleep - reset) and I responded by saying that sometimes we forget to learn the basics since we're stuck in a comfortable automated life, such as outdoor skills.

it would be working better if the government weren't trying to stick its already overly large nose into every facet of the private sector economy and driving up its costs

[Gatefan1976]

Okay for the record this discussion has taken multiple vectors and it's become a bit confusing

Conversations evolve, I have told you this before.
It seems you want the conversation to be based in the past, not the future.
What political position does that put you in?

It is YOUR judgment of history and your own defeatist way of thinking and I don't give a snapple how you twist it I'm not ever going to think that, so we'll need to agree to disagree.

Defeatist?

I want us to remember our failures so we don't repeat them, same way Merlin did. It's not defeatist, in fact it is quite the opposite. "this time around, remember your failures, and learn from them"
Arthur failed, I don't want us to fail again.

You want to believe we've always been hopeless and we can't change, that's on you buddy. It isn't a fact, it's a perception.

No, I want us to believe we can be better than what we are, yet the reality is, we keep falling back into that hole.
because we FORGET
It's not what "I" want, it is simply what IS.

I understand your interpretation of the term evolution but that ultimately is a question of semantics.

I'm not sure you do, this post pretty much says you don't.
I'm talking about humanity evolving beyond it's need/greed based systems, to what we -could- become, not what we currently are.
If that is not hope, what is?

I don't know what we're talking about anymore, basically Magi was talking how much we're stuck in our little capitalism hamster ball (work - eat- kiss wife - sleep - reset) and I responded by saying that sometimes we forget to learn the basics since we're stuck in a comfortable automated life, such as outdoor skills.

I'll give you a more important skill, how to relate to each other.

[magi877]

One must break out from the capitalism mode by engaging in for instance the outdoors on occasion and learning skills that might not be useful on the spot but important to survive.

Just ask around you won't believe how many people cannot start a fire or build basic shelters, and how many people who get lost in the woods don't even have basic survival gear with them which should always be with you if you step in a forest.

oh yes, i KNOW this, seen it first hand!

i live in a pretty rural area (north central pa) and the amount of basic laziness from those who have lived here-and learned here- in things like hunting, fishing, taking care of their properties, lack of home gardens ,etc, is astonishing

ppl basically want to fish from their car window

at our place, we have close to 4 acres, along a river, wooded. we have a garden bigger than most ppl's backyards. fruit trees and cultivated berries. we compost all of our veg and fruit waste and use the compost in our garden.

we also have several "infected" areas with a few types of wild mushrooms that we bought spores for.

and we do it all without any "apps"

but so many ppl, even rural ones, are so lazy and just plain afraid to eat anything that doesn't come from a store and wrapped in plastic

that--called by many as 'progress' is actually regressive as well. it is in the way that modernity has stripped away common sense and what used to be basic perception that something grown locally and fresh is better. but now so many ppl somehow see locally grown as inferior to a store bought, plastic wrapped bunch of veg.

[magi877]

Sure I'm not arguing that. Everything goes fine until the treadmill breaks down. I've seen it firsthand, many families realized how screwed they were when the tornadoes hit this winter here, many without even the means to light a fire or access to food & water.

Actually that treadmill works so well that it gives the opportunity to some to come up with ridiculous theories such as Flat Earth, climate change denial and the Earth being 6k years old (wink wink SGAlisa).

yes, exactly! the modern world and all of its tech-which should indicate that we are advanced, is actually making us more tribal,yet, anti social. the advancements of science in creating the internet and the tools to use it, is actually making a space for those who would use the very tech to go back in time in the way of education and knowledge and common sense

i am not one for censorship, but i would like to see the social media sites make ppl like flat earthers and other 'theorists' place a disclaimer before their vids. state something like "warning, non scientific bull**** ahead"

i mean, with everything we have talked about here, and the apparent growing disintegration of education and the warm welcome for "i learned it on the internet" by so many younger ppl, there needs to be a system that delineates actual fact from bull****

because we apparently cannot count on ppl using the better judgment any longer in these matters

ex: the flat earth movement,and other anti science movements (like anti vaxxers) is seemingly growing. if not, then with the length of time this FE thing has been out (this iteration) it should have peaked and be dying back by now. NOPE! instead we have more international FE conferences and major media doing documentaries on it? NETFLIX even made a documentary giving these nuts even more pf a footing.

ppl think that by 'exposing' them that it will destroy them, unfort. it seems to be garnering them more members and allowing for the confluence of multiple a"anti-XYZ groups" to coalesce into one group pushing multiple "theories"

this is why you see so many FE's who are also anti vaxxers and other things like 9/11 "truthers". they were not one until they were exposed to them through media

[Chaka-Z0]

i am not one for censorship, but i would like to see the social media sites make ppl like flat earthers and other 'theorists' place a disclaimer before their vids. state something like "warning, non scientific bull**** ahead"

Notice that most of those folks live comfortable lifestyles so they got nothing else to focus their thoughts on. The poorest people are usually more centered bc they make the most of everything and learn the true value of things.

[Annoyed]

i am not one for censorship, but i would like to see the social media sites make ppl like flat earthers and other 'theorists' place a disclaimer before their vids. state something like "warning, non scientific bull**** ahead"

i mean, with everything we have talked about here, and the apparent growing disintegration of education and the warm welcome for "i learned it on the internet" by so many younger ppl, there needs to be a system that delineates actual fact from bull****

because we apparently cannot count on ppl using the better judgment any longer in these matters

Suppose that social media starts doing that.

Who decides what gets the "BS warning"? There are many things which are not settled fact, such as mankind causing climate change. Who decides?

I would much rather see legislation requiring social media sites accept all posts, no censorship allowed, period. As a practical matter, social networking is the discussion forum of this country, and it shouldn't be up to the operators to censor speech.

The only censorship I could go along with would be pr0n, but the argument could be made that it would be better to ban those under 18 completely, too. I would actually prefer that, because social networking causes a lot of problems for youngsters as is.

[Annoyed]

Sure I'm not arguing that. Everything goes fine until the treadmill breaks down. I've seen it firsthand, many families realized how screwed they were when the tornadoes hit this winter here, many without even the means to light a fire or access to food & water.

Thing is, you can't fix stupidity.

It's just common sense to be prepared. I have roughly 2 months worth of canned food/water in the basement just in case. I have a generator to provide electricity, and a good amount of gas stored to power it. I consider these to be common sense.

You can't help people who refuse to be prepared.

[Chaka-Z0]

Also important to acquire some elemental survival skills, goods will only get you so far. That way, when the Flat Earth tips on one side and we all fall in space to our deaths some of us will be able to survive in elevated terrain.