Extraterrestrials

[mad_gater]

FTL is impossible, at our current level of technology and understanding of the laws of physics.
That does not mean it is impossible, all it means is that our understanding is incomplete.

right....the rule is that it's impossible in normal space-time...thus the most plausible method might be the one in Babylon 5 where they basically travel through a realm known as hyperspace and basically take a shortcut through space-time that's not normal where the distance between point A and point B in hyperspace is a lot shorter than it is in normal space-time

[thekillman]

right....the rule is that it's impossible in normal space-time...thus the most plausible method might be the one in Babylon 5 where they basically travel through a realm known as hyperspace and basically take a shortcut through space-time that's not normal where the distance between point A and point B in hyperspace is a lot shorter than it is in normal space-time

In other words, it's fantasy.

[Annoyed]

In other words, it's fantasy.

At our current level of technological development. In 500 years, it may be quite possible.
Remember, before we broke previous "speed barriers", there were plenty of the best minds of their time that said we couldn't go faster than running, speed of a horse, etc.

[Chaka-Z0]

I'm a little late but wanted to comment on this

Trouble is, we don't have much of an idea under which conditions matter can self-organize into life, if at all.

You're right, as a matter of fact geologists / biologists have discovered a couple weeks ago that the Earth's deep interior crust contains millions if not billions of lifeforms, mostly in the form of bacteria. Before then, nobody thought possible that life could exist in an environment deprived of light, oxygen, and immense pressure from the weight of the crust. They call those ''Intraterrestrials''.

Europa is more than likely to contain many complex lifeforms under the moon's layer of ice (imagine an ocean the size of the moon, it's next to impossible that this immense body of water is deprived of lifeforms).

Billions of stars and tens of billions of planets? Sure, bring it. Rocky planets within "goldilocks zone"? Fewer. Rocky planets within goldilocks zone capable of supporting life of any kind? Do we even know how many factors to control for?

Actually more like hundreds of billions of stars and at least 1 hundred billions of planets. That is, in the Milky Way alone.

Recent advancements in Infra-red tech made us realize how many MORE stars there are that we weren't able to see before. Not to mention the NASA working on a prototype of a deployable screen, that will be attached to a telescope-satellite. Just like a lizard's crest, the screen will block the light / space-radiation around the telescope. This should reveal even more star systems.

On average, 1 in 5 sun-like stars has an Earth-sized rocky planet in the goldilocks zone - but that's if we play fast and loose with the definitions of "sun-like" and "Earth-sized". My understanding is that out of 4000 exoplanets discovered so far, none qualify as theoretically capable of supporting life.

No they have found quite a few actually, some with the infra-red tech. For instance this is ROSS 128, 11 years away.

The problem is that we only know relatively for certainty that life can exist on a planet similar to ours, that's easy, we live here so we can tell. But it is more than likely that lifeforms can evolve in a sulfuric environment with Magma instead of water. Living organisms have been found in volcanoes on earth, inside the magma.

And then we will have to get to the definition of what constitutes life. And then what constitutes intelligent life. Every time narrowing the probabilities down by orders of magnitude. Why is it so improbable that they might reach zero?

Self-awareness, tools usage (intelligence) and will to live would be my gross criterias. I mean unicellular life exists for sure, they are plentiful on comets and asteroids.

Let's not forget that floating objects in space have encountered / impacted many stellar bodies, imagine like you're going 100 miles / hour in your car, there's going to be a few flies splats on your windshield right? Theoretically, that could very well be how we came to be on Earth along with a multitude of other factors.

[Annoyed]

Self-awareness, tools usage (intelligence) and will to live would be my gross criterias. I mean unicellular life exists for sure, they are plentiful on comets and asteroids.

I'm not so sure tool usage should be a qualification. Many people think Dolphins might be intelligent. They very well might be, but since we can't communicate with them in ways that we are familiar with, many people ignore that possibility.

Incredibly arrogant to think that because we don't recognize their intelligence by our standards they don't have it.

[mad_gater]

I'm a little late but wanted to comment on this



You're right, as a matter of fact geologists / biologists have discovered a couple weeks ago that the Earth's deep interior crust contains millions if not billions of lifeforms, mostly in the form of bacteria. Before then, nobody thought possible that life could exist in an environment deprived of light, oxygen, and immense pressure from the weight of the crust. They call those ''Intraterrestrials''.

Europa is more than likely to contain many complex lifeforms under the moon's layer of ice (imagine an ocean the size of the moon, it's next to impossible that this immense body of water is deprived of lifeforms).



Actually more like hundreds of billions of stars and at least 1 hundred billions of planets. That is, in the Milky Way alone.

Recent advancements in Infra-red tech made us realize how many MORE stars there are that we weren't able to see before. Not to mention the NASA working on a prototype of a deployable screen, that will be attached to a telescope-satellite. Just like a lizard's crest, the screen will block the light / space-radiation around the telescope. This should reveal even more star systems.



No they have found quite a few actually, some with the infra-red tech. For instance this is ROSS 128, 11 years away.

The problem is that we only know relatively for certainty that life can exist on a planet similar to ours, that's easy, we live here so we can tell. But it is more than likely that lifeforms can evolve in a sulfuric environment with Magma instead of water. Living organisms have been found in volcanoes on earth, inside the magma.



Self-awareness, tools usage (intelligence) and will to live would be my gross criterias. I mean unicellular life exists for sure, they are plentiful on comets and asteroids.

Let's not forget that floating objects in space have encountered / impacted many stellar bodies, imagine like you're going 100 miles / hour in your car, there's going to be a few flies splats on your windshield right? Theoretically, that could very well be how we came to be on Earth along with a multitude of other factors.

entirely possible for life to evolve in environments other than class-M (to use ST classifications)...Tholians for example live in some really hot environments...also the silicon-based lifeforms encountered such as the Hortas of Janus VI and the silicon life encountered by the Enterprise-D

as for hyperspace travel...we may one day figure out how to open such a window into hyperspace...that might be the easier part even....getting the probably copious amounts of energy required to do so would probably be the harder part....probably why any ship in Babylon 5 that made its own jump points into hyperspace needed a Quantium-40 reactor and even then said reactor had to be enormous so only larger ships could make their own jump points...smaller craft like shuttles had to use jumpgates

[Coco Pops]

OK suppose we get some kind of breakthrough inside the next 50 years and that theoretical "warp drive" happens. What for us humans changes?

[Annoyed]

OK suppose we get some kind of breakthrough inside the next 50 years and that theoretical "warp drive" happens. What for us humans changes?

I don't think it will be within 50 years. 500? Maybe..

First, the technology required, particularly in the realm of energy generation will radically transform human society on its own. Competition for resources, particularly energy, drive a great deal of conflict in this world, both physical and economic. The tech required to achieve FTL would transform life on earth.

And, of course, we would start exploring nearby space. This would be along the lines of scratching our curiosity itch at first.

However, once and if solid, incontrovertible evidence is discovered that proves the existence of other races on other planets, particularly if we actually encounter someone, that will have a unifying effect upon the human race; the "us vs. them" mentality will come into play.

[Coco Pops]

I don't think it will be within 50 years. 500? Maybe..

First, the technology required, particularly in the realm of energy generation will radically transform human society on its own. Competition for resources, particularly energy, drive a great deal of conflict in this world, both physical and economic. The tech required to achieve FTL would transform life on earth.

And, of course, we would start exploring nearby space. This would be along the lines of scratching our curiosity itch at first.

However, once and if solid, incontrovertible evidence is discovered that proves the existence of other races on other planets, particularly if we actually encounter someone, that will have a unifying effect upon the human race; the "us vs. them" mentality will come into play.

So humanity can become the aggressor you think?

Won't that be great?

IF we find life on Europa that's ET right in our home solar system

[Annoyed]

So humanity can become the aggressor you think?

Won't that be great?

IF we find life on Europa that's ET right in our home solar system

We are a very aggressive species.

But I hadn't meant it that way. I was thinking that definite knowledge of an alien intelligent race would unify us as in "we are all humans" rather that my group is Americans, your group is Australians, and so forth.

[Chaka-Z0]

We are a very aggressive species.

But I hadn't meant it that way. I was thinking that definite knowledge of an alien intelligent race would unify us as in "we are all humans" rather that my group is Americans, your group is Australians, and so forth.

Did you know that the area where the UFO spottings are the most numerous is in Arizona? As a matter of fact, its quite easy to see an Alien yourself. The current population of Texas is 28.3 millions.

[Annoyed]

Did you know that the area where the UFO spottings are the most numerous is in Arizona? As a matter of fact, its quite easy to see an Alien yourself. The current population of Texas is 28.3 millions.

Do I need to make any of the 4,217,028 possible smart@r$e responses to that?

[Chaka-Z0]

Do I need to make any of the 4,217,028 possible smart@r$e responses to that?

Hey I'm just stating facts here!

[Coco Pops]

What about Europa?

I've a very good feeling there is life under all the ice there. Would that count as a bona fide ET?

[Womble]

You're right, as a matter of fact geologists / biologists have discovered a couple weeks ago that the Earth's deep interior crust contains millions if not billions of lifeforms, mostly in the form of bacteria. Before then, nobody thought possible that life could exist in an environment deprived of light, oxygen, and immense pressure from the weight of the crust. They call those ''Intraterrestrials''.

Question is, did that life originate on the surface and adapt to live in the crust, or the other way round?

Self-awareness, tools usage (intelligence) and will to live would be my gross criterias. I mean unicellular life exists for sure, they are plentiful on comets and asteroids.

None's been found yet. Anywhere. And the likelyhood is... not great. There is not enough energy on those things to support the kind of chemical reactions life would require.

Plus the criteria.. Self-awareness is something we don't have proper definitions for and no tests to confirm. The cleaning wrasse and manta rays can recognize themselves in the mirror but grey parrots and octopuses - animals whose high intelligence is confirmed in other ways - cannot. Will to live... try and give it definition, I dare you. What's left, tool use? Most birds build nests - that's tool use. Australian black kites pick up burning sticks during wildfires and drop them in non-burning vegetation, using fire to flush out prey. Alligators use sticks as bait to catch birds who are in the process of nest-building.

Let's not forget that floating objects in space have encountered / impacted many stellar bodies, imagine like you're going 100 miles / hour in your car, there's going to be a few flies splats on your windshield right? Theoretically, that could very well be how we came to be on Earth along with a multitude of other factors.

Still assumptions.