The Department of Boneheadedness.

[Wraithworshipper]

Before computers, the Australian education system used ham radios to teach students in the outback. Sometimes low tech is still the best tech. Then again, you'd still have an issue of enough equipment and knowledge of how to use it. It seems as tech changes, the school systems just go from one hidebound strategy to the next. smh

[Annoyed]

Pop quiz! Who said "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain" ?

Same principle applies.

[Gatefan1976]

Scotty, but he was not always correct.

Needs must as the devil drives

[Annoyed]

Scotty, but he was not always correct.

Needs must as the devil drives

Are you denying that he's right this time? The idea being that the more complex & convoluted something is, the sooner it will fail.

[Gatefan1976]

Are you denying that he's right this time? The idea being that the more complex & convoluted something is, the sooner it will fail.

yes, because the complicated the idea, the more management it needs.
Simple idea's are for simple people, and they can do it alone and there is nothing wrong with that. What you DON'T get is that while the Enterprise-D or E based on simple idea's, they are far more complex than the Excelcior class but despite what scotty did, they were still built.
Why do you think that was?

[Annoyed]

yes, because the complicated the idea, the more management it needs.
Simple idea's are for simple people, and they can do it alone and there is nothing wrong with that. What you DON'T get is that while the Enterprise-D or E based on simple idea's, they are far more complex than the Excelcior class but despite what scotty did, they were still built.
Why do you think that was?

But we weren't asking grandmothers, teachers and such to take the navigation console apart, were we?

We're talking about offering or requiring that some basic functions such as school or whatever to be carried out exclusively via technology that a lot of people don't and don't want to understand. Sure, make services available via the Internet, but don't make that the only access method.
And it is not the service provider's task to TS whatever is wrong with the individual's computer or whatever. Going back a few posts, it's not Tood's job to figure out why their internet don't work.

[Wraithworshipper]

And conversely, it's not the student's job to try to troubleshoot a glitch in the system when, technically, the job of the student is to learn the subject being taught.

[Annoyed]

And conversely, it's not the student's job to try to troubleshoot a glitch in the system when, technically, the job of the student is to learn the subject being taught.

It is if the glitch is in the student's system.

I've worked a very long time in the computer support industry, and the vast majority of issues are with the customer's system or their lack of skill in using it.

[Gatefan1976]

It is if the glitch is in the student's system.

I've worked a very long time in the computer support industry, and the vast majority of issues are with the customer's system or their lack of skill in using it.

So, you are doing what you have been complaining about in the service industry?
Rich.

[Annoyed]

So, you are doing what you have been complaining about in the service industry?
Rich.

Actually, not any longer. But that is another tale.

But I understand it far better than you suspect.

I was in what could be called customer service for the last 20+ years of my working life. So I am damned well aware of what constitutes good customer service and what does not. I also understand worker frustration in that arena, because the worker can't do anything to fix it, he is a peon, there to be peed on, nothing more. I've been that peon for more years than I care to count.

[Gatefan1976]

Actually, not any longer. But that is another tale.

But I understand it far better than you suspect.

I was in what could be called customer service for the last 20+ years of my working life. So I am damned well aware of what constitutes good customer service and what does not. I also understand worker frustration in that arena, because the worker can't do anything to fix it, he is a peon, there to be peed on, nothing more. I've been that peon for more years than I care to count.

I'm younger than you and done it longer, and in more sections than you have, so no, you do not understand it better than me.
You "get it", sure, but your age does not mean you "know better"

[Annoyed]

I'm younger than you and done it longer, and in more sections than you have, so no, you do not understand it better than me.
You "get it", sure, but your age does not mean you "know better"

Confusion. I understood your job to be involved with replenishment and maintaining food displays in supermarkets, a position where contact w/customers was incidental, you were there so they talked to you.

Not correct?

[Gatefan1976]

Confusion. I understood your job to be involved with replenishment and maintaining food displays in supermarkets, a position where contact w/customers was incidental, you were there so they talked to you.

Not correct?

It's what I do NOW, I spent years running a variety of stores before then. Being night fill simply became more practical with kids involved and Mrs GF making more money than me.

[Wraithworshipper]

It is if the glitch is in the student's system.

I've worked a very long time in the computer support industry, and the vast majority of issues are with the customer's system or their lack of skill in using it.

No. You just made my point. The student's job is to learn what is being taught. If the student has NOT BEEN TAUGHT how to trouble shoot a computer system they have not been taught to use because it is beyond their ability to learn on their own, they should not be expected to be able to trouble shoot it. Remember, we are talking about a huge age spread from 5 years to 18 years of age. I have encountered folks younger than I am who have said there's NO excuse for anyone under 40 NOT to be PROFICIENT with computers. His monetary advantages were showing. (No he was not white, so I'm not going there.) I guess I should have been flattered, but he was about a decade and a half low in his estimation of my age. When I was in my senior year of high school, the only computer language was code. Computer games were mostly coding images, and and every thing was in black and white or black and green. The absolute height of technology. When I was in my early 30's and a substitute teacher, I had to have a 5yr old tell me that turning on the computer merely involved hitting any key. Bless his little heart, he whispered so as not to embarrass me in front of the class.

My point is...school systems which admit to not having money for enough teachers and tech are expecting that SOMEHOW the kids are learning vital skills somewhere else. Sadly, this is not the case.

As technology is racing ahead in development, the ability of the families to obtain and utilize it is not keeping pace. I am 23 years younger than my Mom. We have discussed how I feel about tech having left my ass sitting in the dust. She said, "Imagine how I feel. I grew up with an outhouse and under drawers made from cloth flower sacks."

[Annoyed]

No. You just made my point. The student's job is to learn what is being taught. If the student has NOT BEEN TAUGHT how to trouble shoot a computer system they have not been taught to use because it is beyond their ability to learn on their own, they should not be expected to be able to trouble shoot it. Remember, we are talking about a huge age spread from 5 years to 18 years of age. I have encountered folks younger than I am who have said there's NO excuse for anyone under 40 NOT to be PROFICIENT with computers. His monetary advantages were showing. (No he was not white, so I'm not going there.) I guess I should have been flattered, but he was about a decade and a half low in his estimation of my age. When I was in my senior year of high school, the only computer language was code. Computer games were mostly coding images, and and every thing was in black and white or black and green. The absolute height of technology. When I was in my early 30's and a substitute teacher, I had to have a 5yr old tell me that turning on the computer merely involved hitting any key. Bless his little heart, he whispered so as not to embarrass me in front of the class.

My point is...school systems which admit to not having money for enough teachers and tech are expecting that SOMEHOW the kids are learning vital skills somewhere else. Sadly, this is not the case.

As technology is racing ahead in development, the ability of the families to obtain and utilize it is not keeping pace. I am 23 years younger than my Mom. We have discussed how I feel about tech having left my ass sitting in the dust. She said, "Imagine how I feel. I grew up with an outhouse and under drawers made from cloth flower sacks."

Maybe that's a reason that we shouldn't be depending upon computers to take the place of brick & mortar schools? Or any other essential service for that matter. Offer the education service "in person" as the primary avenue, maybe offer computerized for those who wish to and are able to use the tech?

But even if it is offered via computer only, the only thing the school should be responsible for is ensuring that the service is available and working on their end; their servers are running, etc. The ability to use and troubleshooting of problems with the students hardware is the responsibility of the student. Or do you want the schools to pay for technicians to make service calls to the homes of people who can't TS or learn to use it on their own? That's gonna get real expensive, real quick. Why should the service provider be on the hook for those costs?