Discussion about hot topics trending today

[Gatefan1976]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-aircraft.html


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...-idUSKBN1CV37W


https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-35-readiness/


These are just recent articles. There are many others describing this situation currently, and in the past.

We typically see these issues after Democratic administrations. If you recall, the rescue mission for the 79 hostages taken by Iran in 1979 failed when the helicopters crashed in the desert due to lack of maintenance. There are other reports of these issues after the Clinton administration in 2000 or so.

I don't defend or advocate wasteful spending in the military, or anywhere else. But the Democrats would rather waste money tending to the needs of freeloaders who won't even put forth an effort to support themselves than spend it on the hardware our military needs.

I agree with some of your rationale, just not your conclusion.
Firstly, no modern US president has ever decreased military budgets or spending, so it's neither a republican or a democrat thing, it's a US thing.
Yes, you are quite right that while the USAF lists thousands of pieces of equipment, not all of it is combat ready, or even combat suited anymore.
Money is wasted by both parties to keep the numbers up, yet, just like your infrastructure, it is not maintained.
The military simply does not need it's budget, it's not a military "need", it's a dick waving exercise and YES, you just defended "wasteful spending" by calling it a -need-.
You want to not support the "freeloaders"?
Fine, cut the taxation rate on the people by the fed in a way designed to help the freeloaders not be freeloaders. Make the federal tax free threshold higher rather than supply tax breaks to people who can do without them. You don't need to "waste" federal money on healthcare if those at the bottom could afford it for themselves. (or CHIP, or SNAP, or any other program)
Let the working poor just become the "working"

[Gatefan1976]

Additional to the above.
Trump claims that his spend increase is the "largest in history" for the US military, yet this is not true. Ronnie Reagan holds that title at a whopping 25% in comparison to trumps 9.8 (call it 10) percent.
Ronnie had a purpose however, to outspend the USSR and drive it into economic ruin trying to keep up, and he largely succeeded in that goal.
(this is called non partisan thinking, I know you have issues with it, but I just gave credit to a republican)

What is trumps purpose?
Everyone knows you have the biggest, shiniest toys already, and not 5 times the spend, but 10 times the spend of your closest competitors.
"who knew we spent so much on defence??"
EVERYONE.

"but I WANT a PARADE and if YOU don't give me one, I am going to SHUT DOWN your government and blame YOU"
No wonder the rank and file of the military consider him a moron, he does not want it to honour THEM, he wants it to "honour" HIMSELF.
Veruca Salt would be proud, if she gave a damn about anyone else..........

[Gatefan1976]

The USA spends as much as the next five combined. So no, it's not underfunded. Plus, with stuff like buying tanks they don't need, insanely expensive and largely pointless projects like the Zumwalt and F-35, it's not like the military needs the money.

Current funding is more than enough, it must just be spent in a smarter way.

Actually, the R&D aspect is entirely understandable.
They want the best fighters and sea mounted weapons, that's fine, but if a F-35 is twice as good as a FA-18, let the 18's slide into the past, (or on-sell them as the US is want to do).
A surface stealth ship with a working railgun?, you can eliminate half of the support ships for a carrier group with such a ship, and it's far more flexible than most of them as well.
Then there is the secondary market for the tech developments in the public sector (Velcro anyone?, space food sticks??)

This is where annoyed is right, there is real value it military tech development simply -because- it gets so much money thrown at it so the developmental speed is faster. Yes, it can be done in the private sector, but it takes dedication by the company involved and a willingness, or ability to ignore the hits the way on the way there.

[Annoyed]

The military simply does not need it's budget, it's not a military "need", it's a dick waving exercise and YES, you just defended "wasteful spending" by calling it a -need-.

I think not. Yes, our weapons systems are indeed very expensive. But how much of this expenditure, from stealth technology to drones is intended to make it easier for our service personnel to carry out their missions and return home in one piece? I would much rather spend taxpayer dollars than servicemen's lives and consider that money well spent.

Fine, cut the taxation rate on the people by the fed in a way designed to help the freeloaders not be freeloaders. Make the federal tax free threshold higher rather than supply tax breaks to people who can do without them. You don't need to "waste" federal money on healthcare if those at the bottom could afford it for themselves. (or CHIP, or SNAP, or any other program)
Let the working poor just become the "working"

Our tax system is graduated; the well to do already pay far more than the lower incomes. Has been that way for a very long time now. The tax deal pushed through by Trump and the Republicans last fall expands upon that.

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertb...rackets-rates/

Rate Individuals Married Filing Jointly
10% Up to $9,525 Up to $19,050
12% $9,526 to $38,700 $19,051 to $77,400
22% 38,701 to $82,500 $77,401 to $165,000
24% $82,501 to $157,500 $165,001 to $315,000
32% $157,501 to $200,000 $315,001 to $400,000
35% $200,001 to $500,000 $400,001 to $600,000
37% over $500,000 over $600,000


Aside from sales taxes, vehicle use/gas/etc type taxes, with the programs such as earned income credit, deductions and so forth, many people on the lower end of the scale don't actually pay ANY federal income tax, some actually get more in their tax refunds than than is deducted from their wages. Personally, as a lower middle class working stiff, that tax package is going to cut my federal tax bite by more than 1/3.

You've heard a lot about the tax bill costing people in high tax blue states such as NY more. What they don't bother to tell you is that that does not affect lower income people. Yes, the removal of the SALT deductions will cost some residents of high tax states such as NY more. But what they don't tell you is that it affects the higher income folks. Anyone shopping for a $500K home is very well off by most standards. Similar situation deductions for state income. The increase in the standard deduction more than offsets this for people up to around the $75K mark, again, a very comfortable income level.

The left wing media doesn't bother to tell you that though, does it?

As far as the intent of the Democrats, they were more then willing to play hostage with the military budget in order to defend the presence of illegal immigrants into this country, weren't they? Kinda shows their priorities.

And I'll make a prediction regarding the immigration reform firefight that is upcoming that shows their intent even more clearly, based upon what both sides have already said.

I think Trump and the Republicans will back down on DACA, allowing the "dreamers" to stay, in exchange for border security that effectively stops the flow of illegals into the country, many of whom immediately jump on the welfare free ride. That's the fair deal that Trump put on the table; neither side gets all that it wants. It's a compromise. I don't even insist upon a physical "wall"; all I want is to effectively close the borders, we don't need a wall to do that, we just need to deploy the tools we already have to accomplish that.

My idea of "immigration reform" is to round up every single illegal in the country and export them to their country of origin, no exceptions, no BS. They can then reapply for admittance using the established legal processes. But I know I'm not going to get that, so I support the compromise the Republicans put on the table.

But you mark my words. The Democrats will fight tooth and nail to avoid stopping or even slowing that flow of illegal immigrants (read: welfare recipients). The reason for this is simple. Their ticket to ride is how much they can give away; buying votes with freebies from the public treasury. Get a population that is dependent upon government hand-outs and that population will vote for whoever promises the most free stuff.

[Gatefan1976]

I think not. Yes, our weapons systems are indeed very expensive. But how much of this expenditure, from stealth technology to drones is intended to make it easier for our service personnel to carry out their missions and return home in one piece? I would much rather spend taxpayer dollars than servicemen's lives and consider that money well spent.

Bull -****-
You have no regard for anyone else's life, so you have no respect for life, just -service-
Serve the state, and you get to live. unfortunately, your back end care (VA) sucks.
So just serve and die, then we don't have to worry about anything but your statue.
They don't require constant, expensive care, just someone to wipe the crap off them when they want to make a point with them.

Our tax system is graduated; the well to do already pay far more than the lower incomes. Has been that way for a very long time now. The tax deal pushed through by Trump and the Republicans last fall expands upon that.

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertb...rackets-rates/

Rate Individuals Married Filing Jointly
10% Up to $9,525 Up to $19,050
12% $9,526 to $38,700 $19,051 to $77,400
22% 38,701 to $82,500 $77,401 to $165,000
24% $82,501 to $157,500 $165,001 to $315,000
32% $157,501 to $200,000 $315,001 to $400,000
35% $200,001 to $500,000 $400,001 to $600,000
37% over $500,000 over $600,000

Oh look, he missed the point, again.

Aside from sales taxes, vehicle use/gas/etc type taxes, with the programs such as earned income credit, deductions and so forth, many people on the lower end of the scale don't actually pay ANY federal income tax, some actually get more in their tax refunds than than is deducted from their wages. Personally, as a lower middle class working stiff, that tax package is going to cut my federal tax bite by more than 1/3.

Why are you quoting state taxes at me?

You've heard a lot about the tax bill costing people in high tax blue states such as NY more. What they don't bother to tell you is that that does not affect lower income people. Yes, the removal of the SALT deductions will cost some residents of high tax states such as NY more. But what they don't tell you is that it affects the higher income folks. Anyone shopping for a $500K home is very well off by most standards. Similar situation deductions for state income. The increase in the standard deduction more than offsets this for people up to around the $75K mark, again, a very comfortable income level.

STATE, frikking STATE taxes AGAIN.
OH, and PS, Mrs GF makes nearly 100k per year, and we are not "well off" where we live, nor are we "comfortable"

The left wing media doesn't bother to tell you that though, does it?

Yeah, it does, the right wing media does not tell you how hard you are grabbing your ankles though, does it?

As far as the intent of the Democrats, they were more then willing to play hostage with the military budget in order to defend the presence of illegal immigrants into this country, weren't they? Kinda shows their priorities.

The military gets funded in a shutdown, they know that. It's only ignorant twits like trump, and clearly yourself who get suckered into this BS
But sure, it's all about illegals.............

And I'll make a prediction regarding the immigration reform firefight that is upcoming that shows their intent even more clearly, based upon what both sides have already said.

I think Trump and the Republicans will back down on DACA, allowing the "dreamers" to stay, in exchange for border security that effectively stops the flow of illegals into the country, many of whom immediately jump on the welfare free ride. That's the fair deal that Trump put on the table; neither side gets all that it wants. It's a compromise. I don't even insist upon a physical "wall"; all I want is to effectively close the borders, we don't need a wall to do that, we just need to deploy the tools we already have to accomplish that.

Well, you are certainly deploying all the tools you can get your hands on.

My idea of "immigration reform" is to round up every single illegal in the country and export them to their country of origin, no exceptions, no BS. They can then reapply for admittance using the established legal processes. But I know I'm not going to get that, so I support the compromise the Republicans put on the table.

Get out of the USA then, you are an invader, not an immigrant.
Burn lady liberty on the way out please.

But you mark my words. The Democrats will fight tooth and nail to avoid stopping or even slowing that flow of illegal immigrants (read: welfare recipients). The reason for this is simple. Their ticket to ride is how much they can give away; buying votes with freebies from the public treasury. Get a population that is dependent upon government hand-outs and that population will vote for whoever promises the most free stuff.

The people getting the "free stuff" are the rich, not the poor, and it's not government hand outs, it's corporate ones to the politicians.
-That- is your swamp, not the left or the right.

[Annoyed]

Bull -****-
You have no regard for anyone else's life, so you have no respect for life, just -service-
Serve the state, and you get to live. unfortunately, your back end care (VA) sucks.
So just serve and die, then we don't have to worry about anything but your statue.
They don't require constant, expensive care, just someone to wipe the crap off them when they want to make a point with them.


Oh look, he missed the point, again.


Why are you quoting state taxes at me?

STATE, frikking STATE taxes AGAIN.
OH, and PS, Mrs GF makes nearly 100k per year, and we are not "well off" where we live, nor are we "comfortable"

Yeah, it does, the right wing media does not tell you how hard you are grabbing your ankles though, does it?

The military gets funded in a shutdown, they know that. It's only ignorant twits like trump, and clearly yourself who get suckered into this BS
But sure, it's all about illegals.............

Well, you are certainly deploying all the tools you can get your hands on.

Get out of the USA then, you are an invader, not an immigrant.
Burn lady liberty on the way out please.

The people getting the "free stuff" are the rich, not the poor, and it's not government hand outs, it's corporate ones to the politicians.
-That- is your swamp, not the left or the right.

So much to take apart, so little time...

How the hell do you know what's in my head?
But I will concede that I know there are problems with the VA system that need to be addressed.

Missed what point? You suggested that we have a graduated tax system, where the well off pay more than the lower income folks. I pointed out that we already do that, and in fact some lower income people pay no federal taxes at all.

I don't know the prices in Au, but $100K is very comfortable in the U.S.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...me-povery.html

The median household income in the U.S. is about 60K, and in a great many households, that is the combined efforts of two or more breadwinners. $100K income for one person is decidedly "well off".

Regarding the military during a shutdown.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/governm...itary-be-paid/

While a high percentage federal employees are subject to a mandated furlough as Washington faces day two of a government shutdown, members of the U.S. military are operating as business as usual, but will not see a paycheck while lawmakers debate an agreement on spending.
Do members of the military get paid during a shutdown?

Only once Congress acts. According to the Department of Defense, the military, along with "essential" civilians, will not be paid until funds are appropriated. Troops will continue to earn their paychecks but won't receive them unless and until a new spending bill that includes backpay is passed.

Maybe I'll take the rest of it apart later, but I have stuff to do today.

[photoglyph]

I agree. Having spent time in the south while in the military (Alabama, Kentucky), I can say that many there do not 'get it.'

And who proudly displays a symbol of a war they lost?

[photoglyph]

And, slavery is really sidelined in education regarding the civil war.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018...s-hard-history

"The report includes the "dismal" results of a new, multiple-choice survey of 1,000 high school seniors — results that suggest many young people know little about slavery's origins and the government's role in perpetuating it. Just a third of students correctly identified the law that officially ended slavery, the 13th Amendment, and fewer than half knew of the Middle Passage. Most alarming, though, were the results to this question:

Which was the reason the South seceded from the Union?

a. To preserve states' rights

b. To preserve slavery

c. To protest taxes on imported goods

d. To avoid rapid industrialization

e. Not sure

Nearly half blamed taxes on imported goods. Perhaps, the report's authors guessed, students were confusing the Civil War with the Revolutionary War.

How many students chose slavery as the reason the South seceded?

Eight percent."

[photoglyph]

I’m sensing someone who votes against their own interests...

[Womble]

The thing is that if a smart guy like Elon Musk is spending his intellectual and financial resources (which are considerable) on space, that means that he is expecting some mighty fine returns on investment.

My theory is that Elon Musk is an alien stranded on Earth. He is trying to advance the Earth technologically enough to build the replacement parts for his ship and go home.

(Seriously though, Musk is a genuis at crony capitalism. He follows the government money; his empire is founded on billions in USA federal and state-level subsidies. Both Tesla and SolarCity have been bleeding money for a decade; SpaceX does not report its financial performance, presumably for the same reason. All of his companies target the government and its various agencies as primary, if not only, customers. People grumble about corporations not paying taxes? Musk TAKES taxes. It may be money well spent; Musk's SpaceX has outpaced Russia and China in space launches and potentially may provide a heavy cargo rocket to the USA before Russia or China have one of their own. But if we're talking returns on investment - Musk invests much more of your money than he does of his, and the return on that investment will come out of your pocket as well.)

[Annoyed]

My theory is that Elon Musk is an alien stranded on Earth. He is trying to advance the Earth technologically enough to build the replacement parts for his ship and go home.

(Seriously though, Musk is a genuis at crony capitalism. He follows the government money; his empire is founded on billions in USA federal and state-level subsidies. Both Tesla and SolarCity have been bleeding money for a decade; SpaceX does not report its financial performance, presumably for the same reason. All of his companies target the government and its various agencies as primary, if not only, customers. People grumble about corporations not paying taxes? Musk TAKES taxes. It may be money well spent; Musk's SpaceX has outpaced Russia and China in space launches and potentially may provide a heavy cargo rocket to the USA before Russia or China have one of their own. But if we're talking returns on investment - Musk invests much more of your money than he does of his, and the return on that investment will come out of your pocket as well.)

You have a point with that.. He does spend a lot of other people's money. His electric car business would be a failed business long ago if it was allowed to stand or fall on its own in the marketplace.

[photoglyph]

"The United States spends more on national defense than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, United Kingdom, India, France, and Japan combined. While the chart above illustrates current annual spending in dollar terms, the United States has historically devoted a larger share of its economy to defense than many of its key allies.

Defense spending accounts for almost 16 percent of all federal spending and roughly half of discretionary spending. Discretionary spending overall — including defense and non-defense spending — represents only about one-third of the annual federal budget. It is currently below its historical average as a share of GDP and is projected to decline further."

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0...nse-comparison

From 2015; doubtless this amount is too low now as Republicans have given away even more money to the starving defense industry since El Trumpo came on the scene.

"In fiscal year 2015, military spending is projected to account for 54 percent of all federal discretionary spending, a total of $598.5 billion. Military spending includes: all regular activities of the Department of Defense; war spending; nuclear weapons spending; international military assistance; and other Pentagon-related spending."

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/c...united-states/

[photoglyph]

Let's not forget that the defense industry is financially supportive of Republican politicians and irrespective of the myth, the Democrats are no weaker on defense than Republicans.

[SoulReaver]

Musk's SpaceX has outpaced Russia and China in space launches and potentially may provide a heavy cargo rocket to the USA

you mean before NASA?

(doesn't it bother anyone when some private corporation comes up with new tech - especially in critical areas - before public research does)

[Annoyed]

Let's not forget that the defense industry is financially supportive of Republican politicians and irrespective of the myth, the Democrats are no weaker on defense than Republicans.

Nonsense. Recall the 1979 Iran hostage incident? Some nut job took the reigns in Iran and decided to take 79 US citizens hostage. This was while president peanut farmer was in the White House. They decided to launch a rescue mission, which failed because the helicopters crashed in the desert due to poor maintenance; the Democrats were starving the military budgets.
That was also an election year. Ronald Reagan won in November, and Iran released the hostages the day before Inauguration day, before Reagan took office. They knew that Reagan wouldn't have pussyfooted around like Carter did.

And I don't even want to talk about the prior occupant of the White House if the need had arisen for serious use of military power.