Discussion about hot topics trending today

[Annoyed]

On that random thing.. I wanna know were first and business class people included in that list, or just coach? Talking about it elsewhere, someone who HAS been on a flight where bumps like that came up in the past, it only seemed to be coach to him..

From the article I cited: http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/0...ed-flight.html

Several factors come into play when an airline decides who to remove, including a "passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment." Those with disabilities or children traveling alone are least likely to be asked to leave.

[aretood2]

Airlines have very broad powers to remove a passenger from flight for a multitude of reasons. Your ticket's rules, a.k.a. contract of carriage, has a lot of legalese that boils down to the following: your seat on the airplane is not actually guaranteed until the flight is airborne, and anything except getting from point A to point B eventually is not included in your ticket.

This was not technically an overbooking but airline's internal decision to put four crew members on that flight which had to report for duty in Louisville the next day, but it doesn't actually matter. UA followed the required protocol, asking for volunteers to deboard, and offering $800 compensation plus a hotel night for whoever was willing to depart the next day. No one accepted, so they were forced to move on to the unpleasant part legally called "involuntarily denied boarding". This is legal under both USA laws and IATA rules, otherwise a stubborn passenger could create a costly standoff, resulting in a disruption of flight schedule, major losses for the airline and the airport and inconvenience for thousands of passengers.

Here's the kicker; refusing to abide by airline crew's instructions IS illegal. The term is "Interference with flight crew members and attendants" (49 U.S. Code § 46504). The passenger stubbornly clinging to his seat after being instructed to deboard is no different from the passenger who refuses to sit down and buckle up so that the plane could depart, or engages in any other behavior which lessens the crew's ability to operate the flight. Legal penalties for such behavior range from a fine to 20 years jail term.

One can question the level of force used in extracting the passenger from the flight, but he was committing a criminal act and the United Airlines were within their rights.

I was under the impression that the compensation was a bit over $1000 and that the process should happen at the gate, not when passengers are already on the plane.

[Coco Pops]

And on another note.. Who saw that guy being drug off the united airlines plane? First off, last i checked, if they ask for volunteers to 'bump themselves off', they can't force anyone. Secondly WHAT was the cops doing getting involved with a dispute between the airline and a passenger. He wasn't drunk or disorderly, breaking any law (that i know of), or making threats.
SO BY what right did the cops get involved??

That was on our local news the other night and OMG that was disgusting.

I hope there's a lawsuit and the guy gets a good attorney.

The airlines need to be sued.

[Womble]

Wit the passing of that whole "Passenger bill of rights" several years back, HOW was that policy allowed to stay active? IMO that is like saying "Our employees can take the place of a paying customer, and the customer has no damn rights to argue, or else they are breaking the law, so Fark you customers!!"

There are laws that limit the right to overbook and establish minimum amounts of compensation, but banning overbooking outright would be devastating to the airline industry.

I agree. No where else allows you (to my knowledge) to overbook. Such as on busses, coaches, trains etc. SO WHY are airlines allowed to continue to get away with it?

Actually, bus and railways companies overbook; it just isn't as well known because of the nature of the product - tickets are cheaper and time schedules more flexible. Another industry where overbooking is common is hotels (big, big headache for travel agents like myself). Even web hosting companies routinely oversell their capacity.

[Womble]

I was under the impression that the compensation was a bit over $1000 and that the process should happen at the gate, not when passengers are already on the plane.

Compensations begin from $400 in the USA, I think.

The process SHOULD happen at the gate but there's nothing to prevent it from happening after the passengers are seated.

[Womble]

Fine, then let it become unaffordable. But that won't happen. If they price their customers out of the market, most airlines will go out of business. I'm pretty sure they will find ways to keep the lights on.

Why, because sometimes you need to fly from point A to point B and there better be someone to transport you? If airlines find passenger air travel unprofitable, they will exit that market and stick with cargo flights or catering to those wealthy enough to pay for business class travel, and the have-nots will go back to the 19th century travel speeds. Which would be devastating to your economy, which is why there is no government crazy enough to make it happen.

Airlines will pass on any costs imposed upon them to the consumer one way or another, like any business.

But I'm not buying that explanation to begin with. As I suggested, simply make it so that if a passenger does not show up for the flight, he pays anyway. The airline doesn't lose 10 cents. It gets paid, and if anything, it saves a little in fuel because that's 180 Lbs or so they don't have to lift.
The only exception would be if the passenger misses the gate because his connecting flight was delayed. If the connecting flight that is late is owned by that airline (or any affiliated airline/regional carrier), then the airline eats it. If the late connection flight was owned by another airline, that airline pays retail pricing for the seat.
The airline gets every dime it originally sold seats for, and there is no need for overbooking. Problem solved.

No it's not.

Non-refundable fares exist aplenty. In fact, the vast majority of USA domestic fares are sold as non-refundable. It is problematic in itself because air travel is not at all intuitive in how it works as a product. People don't get the non-refundable fares thing any more than they get overbooking, because they see the purchase of an airline ticket as ordering a product which has not yet been delivered to them, and they expect to be able to cancel without fees if they do it enough time in advance. "Why does airline have to be so ruthless and keep my money if they are not providing me any service? My plans have changed, I had a family emergency; just sell my seat to someone else and give me my money back!"

Few people cancel their flights just because. Most have reasons which to them are significant, and they become outraged when cancellation fees are high. I deal with those situations every single day, and trust me, it builds up to serious public relations damage. People make a grand fuss in social networks, and eventually the airline often gives in because it's cheaper than having an image of that business which exploits people's emergencies for profit. Most American airlines do not currently have a medical waiver; if you need to cancel because you were hospitalized, they won't give you an address to which you can send your medical documents to ask them to waive or lower your cancellation fee. I still get my customers' fees waived in maybe 70% of cases because I send the documents via BSP link in order to bypass their customer service. Once they get the papers, they waive, because off the record, Delta , US and UA would rather refund the fees than have a bad reputation.

Also, you can make your fares non-refundable but consumer protection laws in your state and in the rest of the world will often compel you to refund cancelled tickets anyway.

Regarding compensation, you don't think a passenger who is denied because a flight is overbooked deserves compensation? If the airlines don't want to pay compensation, they can avoid doing so easily. Don't overbook.

They deserve compensation, sure, but there's a limit. You can't give the passengers so many rights that it cripples the industry that makes them passengers.

[garhkal]

Fine, then let it become unaffordable. But that won't happen. If they price their customers out of the market, most airlines will go out of business. I'm pretty sure they will find ways to keep the lights on.

I agree. As we already have seen, they have all sorts of things they can add in fees for, hell i wouldn't be surprised if in a few years we see them charging for CARRY ons..

But I'm not buying that explanation to begin with. As I suggested, simply make it so that if a passenger does not show up for the flight, he pays anyway. The airline doesn't lose 10 cents. It gets paid, and if anything, it saves a little in fuel because that's 180 Lbs or so they don't have to lift.

And as i mentioned above, checking with the other travel services (train, bus boat) they don't overbook. So why are airlines allowed??

From the article I cited: http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/0...ed-flight.html

So its NOT random then. It picks based on whether you are "high price", less likely to raise a stink (kids or disabled) and if you are a long term customer (millage member).. It willfully selects from the "Less important people".

I was under the impression that the compensation was a bit over $1000 and that the process should happen at the gate, not when passengers are already on the plane.

Which is my whole ***** with this situation. They usually do that "we have overbooked and are looking for X # of people to give up their seat and are offering XYZ compensation" at the gate. NOT after everyone's already on the damn plane and it's already been held up a few..

There are laws that limit the right to overbook and establish minimum amounts of compensation, but banning overbooking outright would be devastating to the airline industry.

If its not a killer for cruise liners, and the like, why would it be a killer to airlines?

Another industry where overbooking is common is hotels (big, big headache for travel agents like myself). Even web hosting companies routinely oversell their capacity.

Now that i hate.. AS so far i have been one of those who did get a room i had scheduled 7 months in advance booted over to someone else (who was a rewards member) thus the hotel thought they are more worthy than i am, even though HE only booked the place a week prior.. ROYALLY peeves me off when hotels do that.

Why, because sometimes you need to fly from point A to point B and there better be someone to transport you? If airlines find passenger air travel unprofitable, they will exit that market and stick with cargo flights or catering to those wealthy enough to pay for business class travel, and the have-nots will go back to the 19th century travel speeds. Which would be devastating to your economy, which is why there is no government crazy enough to make it happen.

I know many who get by FINE with driving rather than flying all cause of how the airlines gimp you on all sorts of fees these days. And they are NOT going "19th century" speeds. With 2 adults in a car, you can drive 24 straight hrs (one drives for 8, the other sleeps, then he drives for 8 while the first sleeps, rince and repeat), stopping only for gas, food and toilet breaks.. At 60mph, that gives a very good 1400 or so miles you can drive in a day.. At being just around 4000 miles across, that means it should take no more than 6 days to cross the country driving...
So ONLY if you have to go from The US somewhere else you can't reach by car, are you stuck with flying..

Non-refundable fares exist aplenty

Which is one of the bigger reasons i STOPPED flying everywhere when i went on leave, i would just Drive there, even if it meant taking 2 more days of leave either side of a gaming convention.. Just cause i hated that whole non-refundable bull..

[Falcon Horus]

WHat of the health issue cause of all the people crashing cause of texting while driving, and car makers making CARS MORE interactive friendly?

People texting behind the wheel is not the phone-providing company's fault.

Although, if the Sandy Hook families manage to set a precendent in which the gun-company is equally responsible for the deaths of their children, then it would be possible to sue Samsung or Apple or Microsoft or Huwei or whatever company for selling phones that don't lock while driving (like some GPS systems lock when driving or vehicle is in motion).

However, if a gun factory isn't responsible for what a gun owner does with his gun, then a phone factory isn't responsible for what a person does while he has the phone -- like texting behind the wheel. Or carbuilders responsible for what a person does with the car -- like those terrorists who use the car as weapon (except the dude in Antwerp -- he was just running from the cops with his trunk full of illegally obtained weapons ).

BUT i still wanna know, HOW do their personnel traveling to another airport warrant bumping a PAYING Customer?

You'd have to check with Womble -- he probably knows the answer.

But I think it's a priority ticket thing vs 3rd economy class.

On that note: saw a hilarious new seating plan for United online.

images.jpg

Another industry where overbooking is common is hotels (big, big headache for travel agents like myself). Even web hosting companies routinely oversell their capacity.

What happens when everyone does show up?

[Gatefan1976]

People texting behind the wheel is not the phone-providing company's fault.

Although, if the Sandy Hook families manage to set a precendent in which the gun-company is equally responsible for the deaths of their children, then it would be possible to sue Samsung or Apple or Microsoft or Huwei or whatever company for selling phones that don't lock while driving (like some GPS systems lock when driving or vehicle is in motion).

However, if a gun factory isn't responsible for what a gun owner does with his gun, then a phone factory isn't responsible for what a person does while he has the phone -- like texting behind the wheel. Or carbuilders responsible for what a person does with the car -- like those terrorists who use the car as weapon (except the dude in Antwerp -- he was just running from the cops with his trunk full of illegally obtained weapons ).

Don't bring real equivalency into a bulldust fight FH, you know it isn't worth it.

[Falcon Horus]

Don't bring real equivalency into a bulldust fight FH, you know it isn't worth it.

I'm at work, I need the distraction, or I'll kill the workmen sanding the building outside...

[Gatefan1976]

See, if you were straight, that would be a welcome distraction

All those sweaty butt cracks

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

See, if you were straight, that would be a welcome distraction

All those sweaty butt cracks

Does anyone find that appealing?

[Gatefan1976]

err, yes

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

err, yes

You do?

FH! Get some pictures of the builders for GF!

[Gatefan1976]

Not me you silly PH, but others do.
I have other kinks, mostly pretty pedestrian ones.