Discussion about hot topics trending today

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not complaining about anything. I was discussing why the US chose to use nukes to end WWII, and why I think were justified in doing so.

How do you see it as justified?
It did not end the war, so "saving lives" is not really a valid argument. It's the line told, and is the basis for nuclear deterrence in future wars (which is probably the only good thing that came out of their use), but it did not really "end" the war, Russia did that because the Japanese feared the Russians, they did not fear the Americans because they -knew- that the Americans would treat them far more humanely than the Russians would.

[Gatefan1976]

North-Korea is pleased you think that way.

North Korea is just flat out dangerous, they want to redo pearl harbour with nukes.

[Annoyed]

How do you see it as justified?
It did not end the war, so "saving lives" is not really a valid argument. It's the line told, and is the basis for nuclear deterrence in future wars (which is probably the only good thing that came out of their use), but it did not really "end" the war, Russia did that because the Japanese feared the Russians, they did not fear the Americans because they -knew- that the Americans would treat them far more humanely than the Russians would.

I see it as justified because I do accept that using the nukes brought the war to and end, sooner and with fewer casualties ON BOTH sides.

[Gatefan1976]

I see it as justified because I do accept that using the nukes brought the war to and end, sooner and with fewer casualties ON BOTH sides.

But it did not end the war.
This is where you go from being an observer to a partisan.
America could have dropped 6 nukes, it still would not have ended the war because wars against people willing to suicide don't end so cleanly, the war on ISIS should prove that to you.
Wars end because one power (usually the leadership) -fears- the other power, not because they loose manpower, or popular opinion "back home" swings against the people -in power-.

Oh, and BTW, you used the very excuse I said would not work, well done.

[garhkal]

I hate to break it to you, but it passed the House --> 215 to 205 votes.

Congressional Republicans just voted to let ISPs sell your browsing history to advertisers

Funny, the local news last night before i posted that was saying the house voted it down.. Not up..

[Annoyed]

Funny, the local news last night before i posted that was saying the house voted it down.. Not up..

No, it passed. It'll end up on Trump's desk next.

[aretood2]

No, it passed. It'll end up on Trump's desk next.

And he will sign it.

[Gatefan1976]

Fan Autograph

[mad_gater]

Dresden was far from unintentional collateral damage.

The attack was planned and purposefully executed, dropping over 700,000 phosphorous bombs on a sleeping city where thousands of refugees had flocked together, fleeing from the Russians. And where wounded soldiers were being treated.



Reminds me how we have come to the point where we say, "Look at the Germans. They're doing alright. Merkel, leader of the free world.", as opposed to referring to them in a less than friendly way, or joking about the Germans attacked whenever there's a distant rumble which can't immediately be explained.



How many times has the US issued apologies for things they were involved in?

Excluding Hiroshima and Nagasaki since Japan does not expect an apology for that, nor has Japan apologized for Pearl Harbor, except for this little tidbit when Shinzo Abe visited the Arizona Memorial (which my sister thought was a restaurant as it briefly appears in the Hawaii Five-O opening sequence -- a pillow was therefor thrown into her direction with a well-worded "DUMB-ASS, that's the Arizona memorial. You can actually see the ship underneath still."):

"I offer my sincere and everlasting condolences" for the attacks by the Imperial Japanese Fleet on Dec. 7, 1941, that killed more than 2,400 Americans, Abe said, but he did not apologize.

After the war, "when Japan was in ruins, it was the U.S. and its good people who sent us food to eat and clothes to wear," Abe said. "We will never forget what you did for us. On behalf of the Japanese people, I extend my heartfelt gratitude to the United States and the world for the tolerance extended to Japan."

Here are 5 times the US apologies for something they were wrong in doing or should have thought twice before doing:

Five Times the United States Officially Apologized

And here's a list of Japans remorses and formal apologies.



You just described the Japanese society as it has been for thousand of years.

Failure brings shame. Better be dead, than bring shame to the family name.
Isn't Japan the land where Samourai committed suicide? Harakiri?



The above, a prime example of a victor writing the history book.



I hate to break it to you, but it passed the House --> 215 to 205 votes.

Congressional Republicans just voted to let ISPs sell your browsing history to advertisers

never said it was unintentional....we used so many conventional bombs on Dresden that it pretty much equaled the destructive power of one of the prototype nukes we dropped on Japan.....which is why I said in a previous post that I disagreed with that action (ex post facto disagreement of course since I was a long way from being born when that transpired)...I suppose the one LIMITED silver lining is that no one who survived that clusterfrak had to worry about thermonuclear radiation.....whereas in Japan...if the initial blast didn't get the person then radiation sickness likely would....of course white phosphorous burns weren't much better in the grand scheme of things

I was just clarifying the just warfare principle in stating that unintentional collateral damage sometimes happens during the course of fighting a war and does not violate just war principles

[garhkal]

No, it passed. It'll end up on Trump's desk next.

Wow. I looked it up and that ROYALLY sucks.. So you now have to contact your ISP to opt OUT of having your stuff tracked.. Rather than (as imo it hsould be) THEY have to contact you to opt in..

[Gatefan1976]

Are you getting tired of holding your ankles yet?

#winning

[Womble]

Well, of course I'm looking at it from a U.S. perspective.

As to the cause of Japan's surrender,
8/6/45 - Hiroshima
8/8/45 - Soviet Union declares war on Japan
8/9/45 - Nagasaki
8/15/45 - Japan announces their surrender.

I know, there are folks that will claim it was the Soviet's action that changed their mind, but think about it.
The Soviets were badly weakened and didn't present anywhere near the threat to Japan that the U.S. was.

Your grasp of history is seriously lacking.

The Soviet forces thrown against Japan had twice the manpower of the Japanese,over five times the number of artillery units, tanks and aircraft. They had a massive technological advantage, too. A German Tiger had to close in to 300 meters to defeat the armor of the Soviet JS2 tank, while the JS2 with its massive 122 cannon borrowed from Navy ships didn't even need to penetrate the German armor; its HE shells would rip turrets off of Tigers at 1500 meters. (As a matter of fact, JS tanks remained hard to defeat as late as 1967 when the Egyptian JS2 proved resistant to Israeli infantry anti-tank missiles and Patton tank shells in the Six-Day War. The Japanese were very weak in land warfare and almost all their tanks and artillery was obsolete. Soviet tanks were virtually immune to enemy fire on that front.

The Soviets made short work of the Kwantung Army and during that one week, captured territory the size of Western Europe. Worse, the Soviet proved adept at amphibious assaults, capturing the island of Sakhalin and the Kuril island chain, which made the Japanese fearful of Soviet attack on the Japanese mainland from the north. The entire Japanese forces on the mainland were concentrated in the south against the Americans; their north was stripped bare. It was certainly a major factor in Japanese decision to surrender.

[Gatefan1976]

never said it was unintentional....we used so many conventional bombs on Dresden that it pretty much equaled the destructive power of one of the prototype nukes we dropped on Japan.....which is why I said in a previous post that I disagreed with that action (ex post facto disagreement of course since I was a long way from being born when that transpired)...I suppose the one LIMITED silver lining is that no one who survived that clusterfrak had to worry about thermonuclear radiation.....whereas in Japan...if the initial blast didn't get the person then radiation sickness likely would....of course white phosphorous burns weren't much better in the grand scheme of things

I was just clarifying the just warfare principle in stating that unintentional collateral damage sometimes happens during the course of fighting a war and does not violate just war principles

I'm not sure Aquinas via Augustine would agree with you there. Attacking Germany would certainly fulfil the criteria of just warfare, firebombing Dresden would however certainly fall into the category of "bloodthirsty desire for revenge"

[Falcon Horus]

I was just clarifying the just warfare principle in stating that unintentional collateral damage sometimes happens during the course of fighting a war and does not violate just war principles

Oh sorry, my interpretation took a wrong turn.
My bad.

As I was driving to work this mornging, I was going over Annoyed's comment yesterday (or the day before) about Big Boy and Little Boy being justified drops.

Dropping bombs on civilian areas, no matter who's doing the dropping, is never justified.

It's akin to capturing the castle and slaughtering everyone inside, women, children, the elderly, men... and leave none alive. There's no justification in killing innocent people. It wasn't their fault they were born in Japan, or Germany, or Russia, or the US.

Wow. I looked it up and that ROYALLY sucks.. So you now have to contact your ISP to opt OUT of having your stuff tracked.. Rather than (as imo it hsould be) THEY have to contact you to opt in..

Actually, no...

Here's a better way to go:

VPNs, Tor, and HTTPS: Preserving your privacy

To protect your browsing history from your ISP, you need to encrypt your Internet traffic, and there are three primary methods of accomplishing that: VPN services, Tor, and HTTPS.

"That’s basically it," Electronic Frontier Foundation Senior Staff Technologist Jeremy Gillula told Ars. "Those are the three ways you can encrypt [your browsing] so that the ISP can’t see it."

Your ISP can see that you're using a VPN or Tor, "but that's all they'll see," Gillula said.

And in other news...

68 days into his presidency and #45 as falling in the approval ratings yet again -- down to 35%. He's certainly setting a record.

[Gatefan1976]

We will have to cancel his show due to failing ratings, SAD!