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    So, in other news -- how's that socialism system of gov't working out for Venezuela?
    BTW, Venezuela under the current (2016) reign of Nicolás Maduro, is (supposedly) socialistic.
    For further socialism reinforcement -- please See (wikipedia-dot-org)--
    "Venezuela"
    --- and ---
    "Nicolás Maduro"
    "Nicolas Maduro won with 50.62% of the votes as the candidate of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela."

    Getting back on track.. since history is apparently being rewritten or forgotten, and thus potentially doomed to repeat itself by the ignoramuses on our little earth, here's a situation that just happened in Venezuela a few days ago..

    "Scenes From The Venezuela Apocalypse: "Countless Wounded" After 5,000 Loot Supermarket Looking For Food"
    By Tyler Durden
    Created 05/13/2016 - 17:57
    Submitted by Tyler Durden [1] on 05/13/2016 17:57 -0400

    . . .
    Over the last several years we have documented with clockwork regularity Venezuela's collapse into failed state status, which was cemented several weeks ago when news hit that "Venezuela had officially run out of money to print new money [6]." At that point the best one could do was merely to step back and watch as local society and civilization turned on itself, unleashing what would ultimately turn into Venezuela's own, sad apocalypse.
    . . .
    As we wrote [8] then these are simply hungry Venezuelans protesting that their children are dying from lack of food and medicine and that they do not have enough water or electricity. As Against Crony Capitalism added, this is a country with more oil than Saudi Arabia, and the government has stolen all the money and now they bottleneck peaceful protesters and threaten them with bombs (or haul them to prison and torture them).
    . . .
    According to Panampost [9], on Wednesday morning, a crowd sacked the Maracay Wholesale Market in the central region of Venezuela.
    . . .
    As time went by, desperate Venezuelans grew anxious over not being able to buy food. Then they started jumping over the gates and stormed the supermarket.

    "They took milk, pasta, flour, oil, and milk powder. There were 5,000 people" one witness told Venezuela outlet El Estímulo.

    People from across the entire state came to the supermarket because there were rumors that some products not found anywhere else would be sold there.

    As a result of the massive crowd, the authorities were unable to preserve the peace. "There were 250 people for each National Guard officer... lots of people and few soldiers. At least one officer was beat up because he tried to stop the crowd," another source told El Estímulo.

    Other food dispensaries run by the government were also looted by the people.

    Far from the promised socialist paradise, as the massive group of people moved, an entrance gate collapsed under the weight of the crowd, leaving several wounded.

    The image below shows a human stampede over rice.
    . . .
    Over the last two weeks, several provinces have hosted scenes of looting in pharmacies, shopping malls, supermarkets, and food delivery trucks. In several markets, shouts of "we are hungry!" echoed. On April 27, the Venezuelan Chamber of Food (Cavidea) reported that the country's food producers only had 15 days left of inventory.
    . . .


    Social Collapse Is Inevitable

    With the economy dead, the only thing remaining is to watch as society implodes.
    . . .
    Meza said the trigger for the crisis is the shortage of bread and other foods derived from wheat.

    "Prices are so high that you can't buy anything, so people don't buy bread, they don't buy flour..."

    ...Español Ramón Muchacho, Mayor of Chacao in Caracas, said the streets of the capital of Venezuela are filled with people killing animals for food [23]. "Muchacho reported that in Venezuela, it is a 'painful reality' that people 'hunt cats, dogs and pigeons' to ease their hunger."

    Subsquently, Muchacho warned that Caribbean islands and Colombia may suffer an influx of refugees from Venezuela if food shortages continue in the country.

    "As hunger deepens, we could see more Venezuelans fleeing by land or sea to an island," Muchacho said.

    And that is how all socialist utopias always end.* * *
    Say whatever you want for socialistic agendas, but sometimes when basic commodities (like toilet paper!) and produce runs out, people get a bit agitated and crazy. BTW, wasn't Venezuela mentioned as one of the top 3 countries that produces OIL -- next to Saudi Arabia and Canada..? Canada is having quarter of its energy oil output shut down, because of the massive fires currently still burning in Alberta's tar sands region and possibly beyond..

    That leaves Saudi Arabia as top controller..?

    Another article -- might have some important significance as a lesson for the world to take notes on---

    "Venezuelan Socialism: Two-Day Workweeks, No Supplies, And A Government So Broke It Can't Pay For Its Own Currency"
    by Matt Vespa, Posted: May 03, 2016 12:25 PM
    (Copyright © Townhall.com. All Rights Reserved.)

    "The economic disaster caused by Venezuela's 21st Century Socialism continues to reap havoc on the nation's socioeconomic fabric..."

    Comment


      Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
      Seriously, I have very little interest in this topic, because politics in general is boring. Rules and regs, rules and regs.. same old, same old.
      There is an old saying -- that people who don't know history are often doomed to repeat it.

      (will have to put this posting into 2 parts . . .)



      Would you leaning leftists prefer the "dictionary" definitions, instead?
      here yah go (please see within spoiler quotes for space)--

      Spoiler:
      quote-- from The Free Dictionary
      "Socialism"

      noun - socialism
      1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels. Compare capitalism
      2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any of various social or political theories or movements in which the common welfare is to be achieved through the establishment of a socialist economic system
      3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in Leninist theory) a transitional stage after the proletarian revolution in the development of a society from capitalism to communism: characterized by the distribution of income according to work rather than need


      (Cite--Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged,
      12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014)


      ...socialism - an economic system based on state ownership of capital..
      --socialist economy--
      national socialism, Naziism, Nazism -- a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader
      . . .
      communism -- a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership
      . . .
      capitalism, capitalist economy -- an economic system based on private ownership of capital


      (CITE--Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.)

      ----------------

      quote-- from The Free Dictionary
      "Communism"

      Communism -- a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

      (CITE--American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)


      communism-- a political and economie theory proposing the replacement of private ownership of goods or capital with common ownership and distribution upon need.

      socialization-- the establishment of socialist government; the nationalization of industry and other national resources.


      (CITE-- -Ologies & -Isms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.)


      Ooooo. socialization (is) "the nationalization of industry and other national resources."

      Now where have we heard that nationalization word before, apart from "Atlas Shrugged"?

      USA health care consolidated and nationalized. hmmmm, if that is true, then it seems that the Dems have already authorized enforcement of socialistic health care -- under the term of "reform" -- in the USA for at least 3 years now.

      So, in other news -- how's that socialism system of gov't working out for Venezuela?

      (end of part 1 of 2 parts)
      Err...............
      No one is calling for that kind of socialism, so this whole "bit" is pointless.
      sigpic
      ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
      A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
      The truth isn't the truth

      Comment


        Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
        So, in other news -- how's that socialism system of gov't working out for Venezuela?
        BTW, Venezuela under the current (2016) reign of Nicolás Maduro, is (supposedly) socialistic.
        For further socialism reinforcement -- please See (wikipedia-dot-org)--
        "Venezuela"
        --- and ---
        "Nicolás Maduro"
        "Nicolas Maduro won with 50.62% of the votes as the candidate of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela."

        Getting back on track.. since history is apparently being rewritten or forgotten, and thus potentially doomed to repeat itself by the ignoramuses on our little earth, here's a situation that just happened in Venezuela a few days ago..



        Say whatever you want for socialistic agendas, but sometimes when basic commodities (like toilet paper!) and produce runs out, people get a bit agitated and crazy. BTW, wasn't Venezuela mentioned as one of the top 3 countries that produces OIL -- next to Saudi Arabia and Canada..? Canada is having quarter of its energy oil output shut down, because of the massive fires currently still burning in Alberta's tar sands region and possibly beyond..

        That leaves Saudi Arabia as top controller..?

        Another article -- might have some important significance as a lesson for the world to take notes on---
        Wow, one failure to pick on in comparison to the multitude of capitalist/ socialist fusion success stories........
        China seems to be doing pretty well, and it did the whole process backwards as well
        sigpic
        ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
        A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
        The truth isn't the truth

        Comment


          Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
          Seriously, I have very little interest in this topic, because politics in general is boring. Rules and regs, rules and regs.. same old, same old.
          I agree with most of your post even if you are as long winded as I can be sometimes. Each point in it could be expanded upon with examples.

          I don't think politics is boring though; it is the study/science of how how humans exist with each other. Or fail to do so, as the case may be.

          Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
          There is an old saying -- that people who don't know history are often doomed to repeat it.
          It is not an accident that the left has been co-opting/corrupting the education for decades now in the US.
          Our young are being taught revisionist history. Can't go teaching them the truth or they might not want to buy into your agenda.

          One thing the left fails to tell you is that regardless of their intentions, which, I think in most cases are honorable; they really want to improve the society, is that in real life, socialism/communism ALWAYS ends up being an authoritarian society with very little freedom from government oversight. Humans do not willingly give up the fruits of their labors, so in order to be sure everyone "contributes their fair share" as decided by the ruling class, you must have an authoritarian govt. with broad powers.

          One other thing to point out. One of the definitions you cited is as follows:
          It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels.
          Aside from highly placed members of the "ruling party", the level at which that equality is achieved is always bare sustenance level.

          Comment


            Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
            "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand
            And Capitalism enslaves people by money.

            Comment


              Originally posted by SGalisa View Post
              Would you leaning leftists prefer the "dictionary" definitions, instead?
              here yah go (please see within spoiler quotes for space)--

              Spoiler:
              quote-- from The Free Dictionary
              "Socialism"

              noun - socialism
              1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels. Compare capitalism
              2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any of various social or political theories or movements in which the common welfare is to be achieved through the establishment of a socialist economic system
              3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in Leninist theory) a transitional stage after the proletarian revolution in the development of a society from capitalism to communism: characterized by the distribution of income according to work rather than need


              (Cite--Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged,
              12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014)


              ...socialism - an economic system based on state ownership of capital..
              --socialist economy--
              national socialism, Naziism, Nazism -- a form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader
              . . .
              communism -- a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership
              . . .
              capitalism, capitalist economy -- an economic system based on private ownership of capital


              (CITE--Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.)

              ----------------

              quote-- from The Free Dictionary
              "Communism"

              Communism -- a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

              (CITE--American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)


              communism-- a political and economie theory proposing the replacement of private ownership of goods or capital with common ownership and distribution upon need.

              socialization-- the establishment of socialist government; the nationalization of industry and other national resources.


              (CITE-- -Ologies & -Isms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.)
              would you colons americans mind ditching your "dictionaries" & prefer the real definitions instead?

              http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...lish/socialism
              A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole
              http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...lish/communism
              A theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs

              http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lish/socialism
              the set of beliefs that states that all people are equal and should share equally in a country's money, or the political systems based on these beliefs
              http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lish/communism
              the belief in a society without different social classes in which the methods of production are owned and controlled by all its members and everyone works as much as they can and receives what they need

              Comment


                Going into a different question/situational area to ponder...

                Was watching an episode of SVU on disk last night where this black gay teacher (Vocalist if kids training them to sing), got falsely accused of child molestation by 2 teens (14, 15) after THEY coached each other's 4yr old brothers to say what was needed to get the cops to charge the teacher.. Eventually it was found out in investigations that the allegations were not just unprovable, but flat out made up by the 2 teens as a way to get back AT the teacher/coach for dumping them to go with someone who actually had talent.

                BUT even with the case getting dismissed cause those allegations were false, the guy's life is ruined permanently. BUT the DA said the teens would NOT get charged with anything else, just taking a plea bargain for a Misdemeanor charge of false statements for a little probation cause "we just don't wanna punish the kids anymore than is needed"..

                Now that was admittedly a TV script, BUT we have seen it numerous times in REAL LIFE, where false accusations of rape/child molestation/kiddy porn are slapped on someone just out of spite, and the media/public LAPS it up like honey. BUT when those cases get dismissed/charges dropped, the media/public is rarely (IF ever) so quick to lap up any apologies.. And the accused life is (or THOSE accused lives are) ruined for a damn long time, while little IF anything ever seems to get done TO those who make these false claims..

                So.. What SHOULD be done to those who ruin someone's life with these false claims?? Should THEY be punished just as badly as the one they accused would have received had the claims been real?
                Should they just get a little slap on the wrist, cause "we don't wanna make it seem like there are repercussions for saying these things, cause it might turn away many who really DID get molested, and we don't wanna do that" (which is the common logic i have heard from Military lawyers as to why false claimants are never prosecuted, cause they FEEL it might make real victims not report)..?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                  We cannot possibly predict every possible set of circumstances that might arise, so I think the judge should have the ability to hand down any sentence he sees fit just to take into account the unpredictable.
                  This is where we disagree. I do not feel someone's set of circumstances (ie bullied, abused, druggie) should matter in whether they are found guilty/sentenced. You do the same crime as Y did, then you should get the same time as Y does..

                  Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                  What if the worker is simply no longer needed due to changes in work processes or something else that no longer requires his presence. Should the employer be mandated to retain this employee simply because he has kept his nose clean?
                  No, but that is a very valid argument FOR firing someone/laying them off. What i was getting at is they need to explain HOW/WHY someone's no longer a 'good fit'.

                  Originally posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
                  Err...............
                  No one is calling for that kind of socialism, so this whole "bit" is pointless.
                  How many types of socialism are there? Are there grades of socialism??

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                    What if the worker is simply no longer needed due to changes in work processes or something else that no longer requires his presence.
                    how is that the worker's fault?

                    Should the employer be mandated to retain this employee simply because he has kept his nose clean?
                    as long as it doesn't represent a significant (key word) burden for the employer what's the prob? they can always find something for the employee to do or at least try find their future-ex-employee a new job of the same type in another company (and then terminate the old contract)

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by SoulReaver View Post
                      as long as it doesn't represent a significant (key word) burden for the employer what's the prob? they can always find something for the employee to do or at least try find their future-ex-employee a new job of the same type in another company (and then terminate the old contract)
                      A private sector employer is NOT a social services organization. It's mission in life is to make the most profit possible for its owners, investors, etc.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                        we have seen it numerous times in REAL LIFE, where false accusations of rape/child molestation/kiddy porn are slapped on someone just out of spite, and the media/public LAPS it up like honey. BUT when those cases get dismissed/charges dropped, the media/public is rarely (IF ever) so quick to lap up any apologies.. And the accused life is (or THOSE accused lives are) ruined for a damn long time, while little IF anything ever seems to get done TO those who make these false claims..

                        So.. What SHOULD be done to those who ruin someone's life with these false claims?? Should THEY be punished just as badly as the one they accused would have received had the claims been real?
                        Should they just get a little slap on the wrist, cause "we don't wanna make it seem like there are repercussions for saying these things, cause it might turn away many who really DID get molested, and we don't wanna do that" (which is the common logic i have heard from Military lawyers as to why false claimants are never prosecuted, cause they FEEL it might make real victims not report)..?
                        a good compromise would be to ditch criminal charges but punish them financially (on a pro rata basis depending on their income but also on the damage done) - hit them where it hurts & hit them hard, and not just the accusers but all those who had a hand in this: the media corps who relayed the info, and those involved in the victim's arrest & indictment. if possible also the jurors who voted for his guilt, if he was wrongfully convicted before being cleared (then again I dunno if it's possible to know who voted guilty & who didn't, dunno if the courts keep a record of this). also force the aforementioned media to be "twice as vocal" about his innocence as they were about his presumed guilt, make them buy the necessary airtime/publish all the articles required for this no matter how much it costs them

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by SoulReaver View Post
                          a good compromise would be to ditch criminal charges but punish them financially (on a pro rata basis depending on their income but also on the damage done) - hit them where it hurts & hit them hard, and not just the accusers but all those who had a hand in this: the media corps who relayed the info, and those involved in the victim's arrest & indictment. if possible also the jurors who voted for his guilt, if he was wrongfully convicted before being cleared (then again I dunno if it's possible to know who voted guilty & who didn't, dunno if the courts keep a record of this). also force the aforementioned media to be "twice as vocal" about his innocence as they were about his presumed guilt, make them buy the necessary airtime/publish all the articles required for this no matter how much it costs them
                          This ought to tie you up in knots. In most cases, the people who make the false accusations are fairly low on the socio-economic ladder, "commoners" as you put it, and the victim of those false charges is usually quite a bit higher in standing than the accuser.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            And Capitalism enslaves people by money.
                            I think you're confusing capitalism with corporatism

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                              How many types of socialism are there? Are there grades of socialism??
                              Of course there are.
                              Medicare/Medicaid and other social services programs all have their roots in socialism, the US employs all of these things, but I doubt people would consider themselves "socialist" for using them (look at all the signs at Republican rallies saying "hands off my medicare").

                              Simple fact is, Socialism works -for some things- better than the free market, and the free market works better -for some things- than socialism does.
                              sigpic
                              ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                              A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                              The truth isn't the truth

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                                This ought to tie you up in knots. In most cases, the people who make the false accusations are fairly low on the socio-economic ladder, "commoners" as you put it, and the victim of those false charges is usually quite a bit higher in standing than the accuser.
                                bummer
                                wait...nope. assuming you speak true (I don't believe that but w/e) how do you know that the accusations are false then? elites more than commoners have both means & opportunity to commit crime & get away with it
                                besides I did say on a pro-rata basis: small income = proportionately small fine. or better yet (for very low incomes) maybe just some community service instead

                                ps. DSK was cleared but do you think him innocent? (personally I dunno tbh)

                                Comment

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