Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[mad_gater]

That's certainly a valid point. Many people would simply take the accusations at face value especially if it involves a church that they may not like for a variety of reasons.

The Catholic Church has a long history of abuses, political meddling, and blood soaked hands since the fall of Rome all the way to the present. We have 3 decades of hundreds of convictions and documented instances of cover ups regarding sex related crimes. It would take a book to detail in chronological order the breath of abuses sexual and non sexual from individuals to the hierarchy and the popes themselves. Backstabings, politicking, bribing, violation of vows from lowly priests in New Spain to bishops in a conclave to select a new Pope. The Catholic Church has a profile and history both ancient and modern that lends credibility to these accusations.

It's hard to bypass all of that and pretend that the "Holy Mother church" has no real deep institutional problems through its very core that would breed the conditions necessary for something like the 300 priests in PA.

again...the problem isn't the Church and Magisterial teaching...the problem, if you want to call it a problem, is that people have free will and thus have the capacity to commit grave and serious sins DESPITE the teachings of the Magisterium

[mad_gater]

There certainly is a valid point about tarnishing a person's reputation by the simple accusation, regardless of actual guilt or innocence. Particularly in sexual misbehavior accusations, where the accuser often hides in anonymity. Maybe the identities of both the accuser and the accused should not be released until after conviction. But how do you square that with a free press? You don't want to establish the precedent for secret trials and the like.

But in the case of the Catholic church, there are far too many instances. If there's that much smoke, there's gotta be a fire somewhere.

not the best of analogies....oil left on a hot stove can produce a lot of smoke without igniting

[aretood2]

again...the problem isn't the Church and Magisterial teaching...the problem, if you want to call it a problem, is that people have free will and thus have the capacity to commit grave and serious sins DESPITE the teachings of the Magisterium

When the Vicars of Christ themselves have lovers and children while they were cardinals and continued that same behavior after getting elevated to the Papacy (through a "Game of Thrones" style of politicking) it's hard to argue that there isn't some sort of issue with the Magisterium.

not the best of analogies....oil left on a hot stove can produce a lot of smoke without igniting

I think you're missing the point.

[Gatefan1976]

The question that still needs to be asked is how many of those 300 accusations actually have any substance? Anyone can accuse anyone of wrongdoing....what matters is if the accusation can be substantiated. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Although in today's climate simply being accused can tarnish a person's reputation beyond repair even if it turns out the accusation has no substance. We really need to stop trying criminal cases in the court of public opinion and let them play out in the court of law as it should be.

not the best of analogies....oil left on a hot stove can produce a lot of smoke without igniting

So, the Clintons are innocent?

[aretood2]

So, the Clintons are innocent?

Double standards are okay if they favor conservatives.

[Gatefan1976]

again...the problem isn't the Church and Magisterial teaching...the problem, if you want to call it a problem, is that people have free will and thus have the capacity to commit grave and serious sins DESPITE the teachings of the Magisterium

No, the problem, the REAL problem is that the church used is power to obsfuscate the charges and avoid scrutiny.
We all fail, we all fall and it is on US to recognize and learn from those failings, not get shielded by some organization.
Where is the value in repentance if it is not honest?

[mad_gater]

When the Vicars of Christ themselves have lovers and children while they were cardinals and continued that same behavior after getting elevated to the Papacy (through a "Game of Thrones" style of politicking) it's hard to argue that there isn't some sort of issue with the Magisterium.



I think you're missing the point.

again....there is no defense whatsoever in the body of Magisterial teaching, that covers abusive and other immoral behavior....read the Catechism...until you do don't even TRY to claim yourself as some sort of expert on Magisterial teaching

[Gatefan1976]

again....there is no defense whatsoever in the body of Magisterial teaching, that covers abusive and other immoral behavior....read the Catechism...until you do don't even TRY to claim yourself as some sort of expert on Magisterial teaching

So, either the teaching is flawed, or the church hierarchy ignored it, right?

[Annoyed]

So, the Clintons are innocent?

Don't be silly!

[Falcon Horus]

I'm saying the special exemption for rape/etc should not exist. Maybe withhold both names in all cases?

That's a fair compromise.

Absolutely not. But the gold-plated excess of many churches is totally uncalled for.

[...]

In my opinion, a churches facilities should be humble and modest, not the garish, opulent richly adorned palaces that so many of them have.

From a purely architectural viewpoint, I like churches and cathedrals that went all out, same with mosques. Anyone seen the newly built mosque in Cologne... jawdropping stunning.

Just to raise the point, why is this any different from any large organization, be it a corporation, the military, the govt. or anything else? The sun always shines on those on top, while the peons below get peed on.

I'm reminded of this cartoon...

pyramid-of-****-1.jpg

[Chaka-Z0]

I was bored and decided to watch one of these tinfoil hatters shows on TV.

The Prophesy of Malachy

In the 12th century a Saint named Saint Malachy supposedly wrote a Prophesy about the Pope lineage. Malachy was known for being a very devout man, restoring the old roman traditions of pure Christianity and enforced discipline in the churches sacraments. Malachy was also known for having prophetic holy visions.

He wrote down, in a few short words and small descriptions, the names of the next 112 popes to come. Most descriptions are accurate until the 1500-1600 range, which coincide with the publication date (1595) by a monk named Arnold Wion. This led many to believe this whole thing is a hoax, since it's quite easy to describe previous pope and not so much the future ones. The original document is kept in the Vatican's extensive library and no official stance has been taken in regards to the prophesy.

Now, the 112th pope's prophesy goes as follows:

Spoiler:

Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills [i.e. Rome] will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.[17]

To me this is good entertainment, always loved a good fantasy story. One could say the the *sheep in many tribulations* is the current state of the church and its followers: never before in the Church's history have the cardinals, bishops and other leaders of the Vatican have been so divided in regards to Pope Francis' style and actions. ''Rome will be destroyed'' might mean that the Catholic Church institution and the Vatican will fall apart, which seems to be what is going down right now with all the scandals and such that we've seen.

Many among the catholic clergy resent Francis for many reasons: his willingness to put himself in harms way during his sorties, his excommunication of the organized crimes and mafia (the most severe penalty that can be imposed by a Pope) which have always been closely related to the Vatican, his openness on gay marriage, his visits in Central Africa, his distaste for Vatican *career politicians* etc.

Do you believe in these Shenanigans? Will this be the last Pope?

/tinfoil off

[Annoyed]

That's a fair compromise.

But what about open trial process?
You want to go to secret trials, where the details are hidden to all but the govt.?

That will end real well.

[mad_gater]

That's a fair compromise.



From a purely architectural viewpoint, I like churches and cathedrals that went all out, same with mosques. Anyone seen the newly built mosque in Cologne... jawdropping stunning.



I'm reminded of this cartoon...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42718[/ATTACH]

yup....solid biological waste products must also obey the laws of physics....despite some who try to kick said waste back uphill

[Chaka-Z0]

again....there is no defense whatsoever in the body of Magisterial teaching, that covers abusive and other immoral behavior....read the Catechism...until you do don't even TRY to claim yourself as some sort of expert on Magisterial teaching

You mean expert on an adaptation of an adaptation of an interpretation of an interpretation of a rewritten version of the Bible? Unless we find the Ark of the Covenant along with the original Bible, those experts expertise is to me completely bogus.

I'm an expert on Cthulhu's sacred teaching myself. Just ask Soul, he's my most devout fan.

[mad_gater]

You mean expert on an adaptation of an adaptation of an interpretation of an interpretation of a rewritten version of the Bible? Unless we find the Ark of the Covenant along with the original Bible, those experts expertise is to me completely bogus.

I'm an expert on Cthulhu's sacred teaching myself. Just ask Soul, he's my most devout fan.

oh so you don't like Jehova's Witnesses either eh?

if anyone was doing any "revising" of the Bible it was Luther himself as he was the one that went so far as to literally rip books out of the Bible and claim they didn't exist (i.e., what most Protestant denominations refer to as the Apocrypha but we refer to as the Deuterocanonical books)