Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[SGalisa]

Sorry, but due to time, I've got to be picky in which items to answer first, on short notice.

What if you were never taught religion? Do you then burn in hell because you did not know about God? How caring and kind is that?

I've heard that people will be measured by their own rules of standard -- something we came up with in our childhood and swore if we ever broke it, then blah, blah, blah... I did something similar to that during my Catholic days, because I disagreed (deep within my spiritual heart) with some of the stuff the (Catholic) Church enforced.
I've heard the same rule of thumb probably applies to the natives who never heard of Jesus out in the boonie jungles, centuries ago, etc., and elsewhere around the world.

In other words, if you decide upon your own measuring stick of rules and regs, that is how you will be judged accordingly -- think about it hard enough, and you might easily end up condemning yourself. If God asks why should "He" let you into "His" kingdom, and there is only one answer, then that is something decided upon between you and God -- no one else. You basically become your own jury, by your past actions, which have been recorded somewhere in the universe.

(Yeah, in science, the physical universe is actually a recording device or audio/video camera, and it records our every action, thought and word.. but how to play it back is something only "God" knows how to do at this moment. I could explain it, but it's easier to watch the video of how it is done. Where our recorded materials are is something only "God" would know where to retrieve it from..)

Kiss your concept of free will out the door, there is no "suggestion", there are mere commandments.

Regarding what Jesus said, you really don't want me to write out the actual scripture verses, do you?
Aside from the "anyone who believes in Me will have eternal life"... (see John 3:15 {The Living Bible}, also John 6:47, John 11:25).

Excuse me??
Lucifer existed and fell before God "came up" with the concept of Jesus.

you think so? (hint of sarcasm)
You're asking me to explain ADVANCED Bible studies, which will most likely go over your head. (sorry if it does)

For background, I never understood MOST of the various bible imageries, until they were put into illustrated art forms. This particular verse is easy to describe, because I saw it in a Christian magazine decades ago, and never forgot the image, because it was very clear. Putting it into words is harder to do.

If you miss or still cannot comprehend the visual image, I can't help you any further with that, but here it goes.

Here are the verses again-- Please pay attention to the BOLD portion--this is the key.
Genesis 3:14-15, New International Version (NIV)

3:14) 'So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
3:15) And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."'

The image is that of the emity (Jesus) being crucified on the cross, with his foot *CRUSHING* the head of the serpent, while the soldiers were hammering the nail into Jesus' feet or " "strike his heel". Clear as day -- there it is. The whole crucifixion scene with the war between "the serpent" and God's chosen One already set up in Genesis 3:15.

If that isn't enough of a visual, here is reinforcement years later from Moses--

In the Biblical book of Numbers 21:4-9, the Israelites were getting bitten by venomous snakes. So, the LORD "God" told Moses to make a visually symbolic reminder of this incident, by putting a snake on a pole, and anyone bitten who looked upon the image, they would be healed (supernaturally?) -- Moses made a bronze snake and hoisted it upon a pole. The image is that of a snake wrapped around a pole, which in the single snake view, the pole could also be an enlarged NAIL...? That might be stretching the image visual a bit, but in the Star of Life image at the link in spoiler quotes, there is also a six-sided (inner portion of) Star of David image.

Spoiler:

see images and other variations at---

http://askville.amazon.com/symbol-se...uestId=6148153

In other words, the LORD "God" told Moses to make healing symbol--which is still with us to this very day!!--hint, hint--it's the medical symbol on most paramedic supplies and vehicles!
If you choose not to believe any word of this, well, that's the story and the visuals. This is the only place that I know of where God told the Israelites it was okay to look at an artistic image, because it would represent some sort of *HEALING* properties to their ailments...
What applies here to the physical, parallels the spiritual (healing, that is).


After reading some comments about that snake on the pole (or giant nail), is it possible that the imagery was merely a location identification for first aid supplies??? hmmmmm??? Details are certainly missing that would be helpful in understanding this better...

...and that's the rest of the story (or the missing pieces of it, anyway).
(= and apologies if there are any typos =)

[Gatefan1976]

you think so? (hint of sarcasm)
You're asking me to explain ADVANCED Bible studies, which will most likely go over your head. (sorry if it does)

Oh, I doubt it

For background, I never understood MOST of the various bible imageries, until they were put into illustrated art forms. This particular verse is easy to describe, because I saw it in a Christian magazine decades ago, and never forgot the image, because it was very clear. Putting it into words is harder to do.

If you miss or still cannot comprehend the visual image, I can't help you any further with that, but here it goes.

Here are the verses again-- Please pay attention to the BOLD portion--this is the key.
Genesis 3:14-15, New International Version (NIV)

3:14) 'So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
3:15) And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."'

The image is that of the emity (Jesus) being crucified on the cross, with his foot *CRUSHING* the head of the serpent, while the soldiers were hammering the nail into Jesus' feet or " "strike his heel". Clear as day -- there it is. The whole crucifixion scene with the war between "the serpent" and God's chosen One already set up in Genesis 3:15.

See, that is reading into it what you *wish* to believe. Does it not make more sense that the serpent, now cursed to crawl on his belly will get it's head crushed by mankind (it's the quickest way to kill a snake, there is a reason why we have the saying "cut of the serpents head and the body will die"). Does it also not make far more sense that a creature low to the ground will attack lower down such as feet, ankles, calves?

I know well enough that it is part of human nature to perceive patterns, it helped us develop into the people we are today, I am ALSO well aware of people making patterns where no such thing exists.

If that isn't enough of a visual, here is reinforcement years later from Moses--

In the Biblical book of Numbers 21:4-9, the Israelites were getting bitten by venomous snakes. So, the LORD "God" told Moses to make a visually symbolic reminder of this incident, by putting a snake on a pole, and anyone bitten who looked upon the image, they would be healed (supernaturally?) -- Moses made a bronze snake and hoisted it upon a pole. The image is that of a snake wrapped around a pole, which in the single snake view, the pole could also be an enlarged NAIL...? That might be stretching the image visual a bit, but in the Star of Life image at the link in spoiler quotes, there is also a six-sided (inner portion of) Star of David image.

Spoiler:

see images and other variations at---

http://askville.amazon.com/symbol-se...uestId=6148153

In other words, the LORD "God" told Moses to make healing symbol--which is still with us to this very day!!--hint, hint--it's the medical symbol on most paramedic supplies and vehicles!

Actually, that is incorrect.
The Sigil made by Moses was the Nehushtan, the symbol *mistakenly* is the Caduceus, and the actual symbol for healing is the Rod of Asclepius.

If you choose not to believe any word of this, well, that's the story and the visuals. This is the only place that I know of where God told the Israelites it was okay to look at an artistic image, because it would represent some sort of *HEALING* properties to their ailments...
What applies here to the physical, parallels the spiritual (healing, that is).

Yes, but the symbol of the serpent as a healing or creative force existed long before Moses should have, even the Egyptians used it. I am sure someone who likes to draw comparisons can draw that one.

After reading some comments about that snake on the pole (or giant nail), is it possible that the imagery was merely a location identification for first aid supplies??? hmmmmm??? Details are certainly missing that would be helpful in understanding this better...

...and that's the rest of the story (or the missing pieces of it, anyway).
(= and apologies if there are any typos =)

Look outside of Christianity, there are thousands of years of other religions that never knew of Christianity till it was bought to their countries.

[Coco Pops]

Look outside of Christianity, there are thousands of years of other religions that never knew of Christianity till it was bought to their countries.

And Christianity is itself a blend of other religions. A lot of the stories in the Bible were ripped off other religions........ The flood story for example was around long before the Bible was invented

[Falcon Horus]

Apparently, you're ignoring the Caliphate's contract with the Muslim world. Please read it again and see if you will willingly bow down to such rules and regs. People are getting beheaded and murdered, etc., under these (Islamic state) guys.

Oh for cryin' out loud... I don't bow down to Islam, nor to Christianity, nor to any other religion out there. Or convert under pressure any time soon either. And the Middle-East is so far away from where I live, that it will take a while before ISIS (or whatever they call themselves) has put their troops on solid ground.

The downside of all this turmoil in the middle-east is the hundreds of innocent people who are running from these idiot fanatics and get caught in the crossfire. Hundreds of people have died already, and that's the real tragedy. We have come this far, and we're still using religion to justify war.

I live in Belgium, where religion is to every one's own liking and doing. I live in a neighborhood with more Muslims than Christians I think, and they aren't trying to put me under their ruling, neither one. On the contrary, sharing and caring... ...and with the Ramadan upon us, I hope they all will be well in the next few weeks.

BUT from my POV, you're a bloody fanatic who would answer the call for a crusade - that's how afraid you really are. You're hiding behind your prophecies and your news articles, but at the base of it all, you are afraid. I remember I once advised you to have a chat with an actual Muslim and talk religion, and you came up with a gazillion excuses to not talk to them.

I don't know you, only from what I see here but the image I get from you and what you post here, always reminds me of those folks who believed in witches and burned innocent women and men, cracked down on the Cathars for living a different religious life, took up arms to fight the infidels in the east.

Now the infidels in the east are taking up arms against the infidels in the west... well, we had it coming.

You keep believing you'll wake up one morning, and find yourself surrounded by evil Muslims. I'm already surrounded by them, and they are far from evil.

[Falcon Horus]

And Christianity is itself a blend of other religions. A lot of the stories in the Bible were ripped off other religions........ The flood story for example was around long before the Bible was invented

Gilgamesh got flooded long before Noah.

[Gatefan1976]

And Christianity is itself a blend of other religions. A lot of the stories in the Bible were ripped off other religions........ The flood story for example was around long before the Bible was invented

I know that is the popular perception CoCo, and sure, Christianity can be pointed at as a prime example of "ripping off" other religions, I have done it myself, but I have to stop sometimes and ask myself, am I disagreeing with your "faith" or the Engine that runs that faith? I cannot disagree with faith, it is a emephreal thing, it is unique to a person and I cannot in good conscience deny someone their POV, I *can* however disagree with the engine that fuels that faith and challenge their conclusions. I can ALSO challenge people who seemingly want their views, generated by faith, to be taken as "gospel" or the way the world should run. People have every right to believe what they wish, they just have no right to impose that belief on others.

[Coco Pops]

I know that is the popular perception CoCo, and sure, Christianity can be pointed at as a prime example of "ripping off" other religions, I have done it myself, but I have to stop sometimes and ask myself, am I disagreeing with your "faith" or the Engine that runs that faith? I cannot disagree with faith, it is a emephreal thing, it is unique to a person and I cannot in good conscience deny someone their POV, I *can* however disagree with the engine that fuels that faith and challenge their conclusions. I can ALSO challenge people who seemingly want their views, generated by faith, to be taken as "gospel" or the way the world should run. People have every right to believe what they wish, they just have no right to impose that belief on others.

And that's fair enough........ I am not trying to change your beliefs or POV....... Just sharing my thoughts / opinions..

[Coco Pops]

I am LOVING this thread...........

I'm not sure how far we can go in Off Topic but two threads I started in the hope of discussion

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...court-decision

and

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...ien-worlds-too

[aretood2]

How can the devil rule the earth, if God is all-powerful and there is no force in the world outside of God?

Makes no sense.

Not as a sovereign king with authority. What that means that he rules those who choose to be part of this world's ills instead of fighting against it. When I say world, I don't mean Earth. I mean "the world" or those whose only concerns are worldly and not spiritual. There's a reason why the Apostles wanted the church to pray for Earth's governments, because in the end God is sovereign over the Earth, it's king. Which is why several saints during the time of the prophets held government positions.

Which raises the obvious question. how can a being of supreme good allow Satan?
Or, is God not good?
OR Does God simply not care about the majority of people?

So should God rule over Earth like the friendly benevolent dictators of North Korea? Or should he allow us to have free will? You are basing your questions on TV's version of the Bible (Or the crazies here in the USA who are more political than religious). The Devil doesn't make evil, we do. It's our free will. If you want no evil, then pray for an end to Free will because we, as a species, are rotten to the core if left to our own devices. The Devil is merely an advocate for evil, he accuses and tries to find and nurture that rotten core that we have.

So, God was being a cosmic Arse and played the "age card" Jo-b, should have turned around and said "who are you with no one to believe in you, you may have created all, but without us to appreciate it, you are nothing" The king with no subjects is no better than the meanest peasant, no matter his wealth or power.

That's dumb. I would expect better from you.

A king with no subjects is not a king by definition. So is God a god or not? Your reasoning logically sound, or at least I can't find it.

And Christianity is itself a blend of other religions. A lot of the stories in the Bible were ripped off other religions........ The flood story for example was around long before the Bible was invented

Humans were around before the Bibles was....written. So does that mean the Christianity ripped off of existence as well? How dare it not come up with something more original that has no resemblance to past events or logical interaction between a human like species.

Prove your point because I have yet to see this logically argued.

[aretood2]

It's a trick test, with a ridiculous cost for pre determined failure. Remove the notion that God is omniscient, and you now have a fair test.

Remove our notions of time as well. Don't think that these things happen with a linear mindset. That's our way, a very earthly and human way of existing.

How about this? What are God's goals here? Has he shared that with us?

Some believe that God blindly made man and set up the world and just sat waited to see what would happen next.

But what if God wanted creatures with Free will for whatever reason he would have (God knows that I don't always understand my Parents motives when they do things, but that doesn't mean they don't exist!). What if there is no scenario where man would be good on his own? What if free will carries that darkness, because in order to be real it must be acted upon. That is a philosophical question. What is free will? If we always follow all the rules and manners and cross all out T's and dot all our I's aren't we just doing what others want us to do? How is that free will? Shouldn't there be the real possibility of dissidence?

But...how can that be a possibility if it never happens? What is then disobedience? How will you know it if it never is experienced? How can a fish know it's wet if it has never experience a state of not being wet? How can you know happiness if you don't know sadness? How can you know good if you don't know that which defines good, bad?

If Adam and Eve could never fall, then would free will exist? Because if bad is never a serious option, that is one that will be chosen, then doesn't it negate the whole system? If I say, "You're free. Do as you wish...even though I know you'd never do anything against my will and will always only do that of which I approve" is that not an influence from the outside? Doesn't that make it empty? If I tell the Sun to rise, and it does...is that obedience?

The fall was punished not because of disobedience, but because Adam and Eve didn't take responsibility for their actions. Nor did Cain, nor did Saul, nor did anyone else. There is always an excuse. Instead of seeking redemtion, they all run. Adam sinned, but wouldn't God forgive if he had a contrite heart and accepted his disobedience as bieng his and not Eve's fault? Adam blamed Eve, and Men have never stopped blaming women for anything.


Somethings go wrong in town, Burn the women..erm witches!
The King has no male heirs? Off with the queens head...or divorce...

What is the evil there? The lack of male heirs and unfortunate events? Or failing to understand what or who is truelove responsible for actions? In a sense, Adam claimed that he had no free will...but he did. He did what he did with no remorse, no guilt, he blamed someone else. That is the true sin in the whole story. Did the Devil make Adam blame Eve? No, he did that on his own.

[SoulReaver]

According to the way it was explained in our "Bible" classes, the sins of the parents is carried to the next generation via DNA/RNA and social upbringing

DNA? so genetics play a part in transferring sin?
so does this mean that we can purge ourselves of our forbears' sin via genetic alteration?
say if someone is exposed to a some radiation, or a virus that rewrites DNA, or anything that causes a mutation, genetically speaking that person ain't the same anymore it's a new person, so does that mean they're free of sin?

and ends up being magnified or expanded upon from the first generation where the "action" was committed (meaning the parents who are the 1st generation).

you mean the descendants get an even greater share of the sin? sounds even more practical
(for instance if a sinner has just 1 kid, will that kid share more than half of the punishment? maybe 2/3? or 75%? how much?)

[SoulReaver]

Why, in the name of all that is good, are you so afraid of Islam?

exactly

now get off your PC, put on your niqab & go do the housechores, woman!

[jelgate]

If she doesn't, you can whip her

[Falcon Horus]

If she doesn't, you can whip her

There shall be no whippin' in my household!

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

There shall be no whippin' in my household!

*puts whips away*