The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

I was watching the news this morning...and I couldn't believe that Mango Mussolini said he never claimed there was no Russian interference with the 2016 elections. I just cooldn't believe it as I've seen tweets and heard comments stating there was no interference by the Russians.

Fact Check Trump and Russian Meddling in Election

Why lie when it is in the twitterverse and in his live commentary during and after the election?

First off, in today's environment, "fact check" really means "submit to left-wing sources for their approval". When is the last time you or anyone cited a "fact check" by Fox, the National Review, Reason.com, Breitbart or any other non-leftie site? So you can throw that idea right out with the rest of the trash.

The MSM, which is heavily biased against Republicans and Trump in particular, and they are going ballistic because Mueller doesn't have a smoking gun against Trump. They're going on about "hopefully, something else will be forthcoming" and so forth. What the hell are they going to do if no proof is ever found? Just keep pulling it out of where the sun don't shine?

Oh, and by the way, this is hardly the first time that Russia or the former Soviet Union has tried to manipulate our affairs. It's a long tradition on their part, going back to the cold war at least.
Here's an example involving Slick Willie:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...administration

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.

As of now, there is no "smoking gun". If the media keeps on going on about that, it will be clear that they are just trying to hang their hatred and bias on any hook available, regardless of how flimsy it is.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Honestly?
The more I read, learn and process, the more I become convinced that trump -himself- was utterly incapable of collusion, simply because he would not know the difference between business quid pro quo and how a government is supposed to function. That's not a defence of trump, anymore than not charging a 5 year old who shoots their parent under murder laws is a defence, it's realising the legal standing and burden of proof you can achieve on a case.
He does not slap sanctions on Russia because doing it would "get him in trouble", and not doing it gets ignored by the GOP. So........ yeah, in a way it -is- defending himself, at least, from a 5 year old point of view.
is it doing the Job he is supposed to hold?
Hell no.

So you're saying he is too ignorant to not only collude with Russia but also to do his job and enforce the sanctions?

First off, in today's environment, "fact check" really means "submit to left-wing sources for their approval". When is the last time you or anyone cited a "fact check" by Fox, the National Review, Reason.com, Breitbart or any other non-leftie site? So you can throw that idea right out with the rest of the trash.

The MSM, which is heavily biased against Republicans and Trump in particular, and they are going ballistic because Mueller doesn't have a smoking gun against Trump. They're going on about "hopefully, something else will be forthcoming" and so forth. What the hell are they going to do if no proof is ever found? Just keep pulling it out of where the sun don't shine?

I wont talk about how scary it is the facts have become partisan. So you don't believe that Trump the sources provided to you that Trump has said previously that there was no Russian meddling in the election? How about a tweet from Trump himself?

trump.PNG

[Annoyed]

So you're saying he is too ignorant to not only collude with Russia but also to do his job and enforce the sanctions?



I wont talk about how scary it is the facts have become partisan. So you don't believe that Trump the sources provided to you that Trump has said previously that there was no Russian meddling in the election? How about a tweet from Trump himself?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42564[/ATTACH]

It's just as scary that the media has become so partisan. They're supposed to report the news, not adjust it to fit their own viewpoint.

If you read what he actually said, he says that Putin denies any meddling.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

It's just as scary that the media has become so partisan. They're supposed to report the news, not adjust it to fit their own viewpoint.

If you read what he actually said, he says that Putin denies any meddling.

He said that to back up his up previous claim "I've already given my opinion".
He said in December of December 2016: “I don’t believe they interfered. That became a laughing point, not a talking point, a laughing point.”

[Annoyed]

And again, if you're stiving for accuracy, he said “I don’t believe they interfered.", not a point blank statement that they did not interfere.

How often has Russia interfered in our society in the past? How often have WE interfered in the internal affairs of other nations. This is hardly new. The only thing that's new is the medium, social media, and the lefty media is trying to use it against Trump.

Has there even been any accusations of actually hacking the vote, altering the tallies at the ballot box? We can discuss the wisdom of having networked/computerized polling systems another time (damned stupid idea if you ask me, thank you Al Gore) but have they managed to do so?

[Wolf O'Donnell]

And again, if you're stiving for accuracy, he said “I don’t believe they interfered.", not a point blank statement that they did not interfere.

How often has Russia interfered in our society in the past? How often have WE interfered in the internal affairs of other nations. This is hardly new. The only thing that's new is the medium, social media, and the lefty media is trying to use it against Trump.

Has there even been any accusations of actually hacking the vote, altering the tallies at the ballot box? We can discuss the wisdom of having networked/computerized polling systems another time (damned stupid idea if you ask me, thank you Al Gore) but have they managed to do so?

Oh come on... He was clearly saying that he did not think there was any meddling.

[jelgate]

You are wasting your time. Annoyed will always defend Trump no matter how many times he lies

[aretood2]

SGalisa is neither a 10 year old, or from Kyrgyzstan.
But nice try.
As for the "boorish" aspect, sure, you could call it that, but again that is the failure of text.

Really GF? Do I actually have to explain an analogy?

Someone from Kyrgyzstan would understandably not know much about western fantasy films much less a 10 year old who would not have been old enough to have seen it should it have made it to Kyrgyzstan. That lack of understanding of a foreign culture would not qualify anyone from a central asian culture as an idiot in any capacity. A modern day person who isn't Greek not recognizing an icon from an ancient and foreign (and long gone) culture cannot be faulted for not knowing about it.
Especially considering that that little factoid isn't taught in schools, this is you trying to defend a ridiculous position. FH is in the wrong, there is no justification and my mistake was not reporting her post. So I digress.

Translation:

Perhaps, like Cruz here you (generic) have a history of persecuting others?
In fact, I don't even think that's the really bad thing, my religion did it as well.
No, the really bad thing is pretending that it never happened, or that it could not happen again.

I'm sorry, are we talking about the religion or people? If people, can you quote where I have denied anything?

Concerning the bolded, no, it's not false, every religion has done it. What is false is the assumption that by doing so, it invalidates the religion. If someone says they moved Jesus' birthday to line in with pagan rituals, that's just fact, but it no way says that Jesus was not born.

Gatecat's post was about the bible, so my questions and responses are concerning the Bible. Not the things after it. Considering that Christmas wasn't a thing until after the last writer of the Bible died...

Genesis would disagree with you. It was not a rock, or a lobster, or a goat that spoke to Eve, it was a serpent, the craftiest of all God's creations that tempted and convinced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and cause the fall from Eden.
As for snake handling, and what modern Christians do, are you -really- going to adopt a position where the past has no bearing on modern Christianity, but the present somehow had an impact back then?

The thing is none of you are being specific enough. You're jumping all over the place. First the Bible, then Catholics, then all Christians, then Moses, and...the religion itself? It is increasingly hard to carry a conversation like that. And I think we've derailed this long enough.

Wow, I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here. Nachash is the word for snake, (or shining one, hello Lucifer) Tannin is more associated with sea monsters. Two words for two different types of creatures that live in different environments.
How surprising.

So how would you translate "Tanin" in Exodus 7:10 and the use of "Nachash" in exodus 4:3? You don't really need to answer here. Move it to the other thread if you want to talk about it.

As for the Adversary, I thought you said sometimes a talking snake is just a talking snake, so why is it now the adversary?

Try and keep up. Moses' act in front of the Hebrews was a call out to a story they knew. That's it. I can only apologize that in my Church (among others), snakes have never been the sign of evil or whatnot and treated as the devil's pets. That's just not something the Bible teaches.

Yes, I get the symbology quite well, but I am still at a loss to explain why Moses would put up a snake staff to represent HEALING when he just proved that his lord was better than TWO other snakes by eating them.
That's the crux, why use a snake?

Ask in different thread.

Honestly?
The more I read, learn and process, the more I become convinced that trump -himself- was utterly incapable of collusion, simply because he would not know the difference between business quid pro quo and how a government is supposed to function. That's not a defence of trump, anymore than not charging a 5 year old who shoots their parent under murder laws is a defence, it's realising the legal standing and burden of proof you can achieve on a case.
He does not slap sanctions on Russia because doing it would "get him in trouble", and not doing it gets ignored by the GOP. So........ yeah, in a way it -is- defending himself, at least, from a 5 year old point of view.
is it doing the Job he is supposed to hold?
Hell no.

Or he is hot tempered, used to life in business, but also knows what he is doing. Saying stupid things keeps his base supporters happy. His happy base keeps the GOP in line. The GOP keeps him safe. Similar process with the public and it is all founded on keeping his base happy. Underestimating people is never a sound policy.

I'm sure Donnie Demento did something stupid we can discuss -- how about using the shooting victims to put the Russia investigation back in a bad light.

It's rather cold and calculating of him. It'll keep his base happy and so on.

If you think people know Columbus wasn't even Spanish to begin with, you have another thing coming.
Only the elites and snobs would know that.

You missed the point. The point was that the flat earth thing is a misconception people have in general. However, it is understandable for even grade school teachers to have and teach (and it happens) that considering how trivial it is. However there are people who did learn it correctly in School. Unlike the rod of Asclepius which isn't covered in school at all. Frankly FH,very few people know about those symbols on the sides of ambulances, including those who drive them for a living.

I hear, it was actually November.

Possibly Spring, but that's not what the question was asking anyway.

[Annoyed]

You are wasting your time. Annoyed will always defend Trump no matter how many times he lies

That is not true, and you know it. I've already stated several time that the constant 3-ring circus surrounding Trump is detracting from his ability to pursue the agenda he ran on, and that at this point it would be better if he vacated or was removed and Pence took over.

[jelgate]

It is true I go on your actions not your words

[aretood2]

That is not true, and you know it. I've already stated several time that the constant 3-ring circus surrounding Trump is detracting from his ability to pursue the agenda he ran on, and that at this point it would be better if he vacated or was removed and Pence took over.

But you are denying that he denied that the Russians were involved at all. He didn't just deny collusion, but meddling in general. Even though he said that on TV, Tweets, and public speeches multiple times.

[Annoyed]

Well, if he outright stated that the Russians didn't meddle, he's obviously going to have to eat those words.
But it does raise another question.. Why didn't the Obama administration do anything about it?

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Well, if he outright stated that the Russians didn't meddle, he's obviously going to have to eat those words.
But it does raise another question.. Why didn't the Obama administration do anything about it?

Didn't the Obama admin warn the Trump admin about people like Flynn?
Also, deflecting to Obama does not change what is currently going on now. Obama was far from perfect but he also is not the President anymore. Trump needs to do something because he is in charge.

[SGalisa]

The MSM, which is heavily biased against Republicans and Trump in particular, and they are going ballistic because Mueller doesn't have a smoking gun against Trump. They're going on about "hopefully, something else will be forthcoming" and so forth. What the hell are they going to do if no proof is ever found? Just keep pulling it out of where the sun don't shine?

Yep. They'll fabricate it. Just like --as has been recently revealed to be PROVEN as FALSE INFO-- they had the so-called Trump-Russia dossier with the disgusting "golden showers" story attached to it. IIRC, I think that the story has progressed enough now --in public news-- that it *has* been proven to be false (well, I know it's been in the more conservative news sources as been proven to be a false and totally *fabricated* report). Basically, when all else fails -- (generic) Send in the *dogs* to pee on your garden veggies, flowers, and household linens ..type of info.. to ensure that you'll get your own (political) way.

I've met a lot of in-the-garbage-gutter *sick*-minded folks, but that whole story just reeks dumpsters full of vomit. barf... After the BIG reveal (Democrats being the REAL collusion behind this stuff) it doesn't show much (or *any*, IMO) respect for the Democrats, GOP (Sen.John McCain...except I think he was just a gullible prop the Dems *& company* used), and other folks (whoever they are) who were totally involved behind developing it, creating it, FINANCING it --- AND publishing it. What was sooooooooo unbelievable was that these people who supported it from beginning to end had most of the MSM believing it (uhhhh, so the MSM are the same minded individuals??), and had a good chunk of the rest of the world trying to believe it too.

I personally had suspicions from the very beginning about that whole dossier document and story, but had other reasons not to want to choose Donald Trump over Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or some other Republican candidate who got weeded out of the final election choice.

As of now, there is no "smoking gun". If the media keeps on going on about that, it will be clear that they are just trying to hang their hatred and bias on any hook available, regardless of how flimsy it is.

Don't be too shocked if *they* (i.e., whoever "they" are) try again... or try, try, TRY again...
Those people AND the MSM are *desperate* to get rid of Trump any way possible -- by ANY method that will ultimately work in their favor. And desperate souls often resort to desperate and dispicable measures to get their way.

[SoulReaver]

After the BIG reveal (Democrats being the REAL collusion behind this stuff)

yes that must be it! the Democrats colluded with the ruskies to lose the elections!
makes perfect sense!