The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

Most likely. But at the very least we should as a society stop rewarding irresponsible behavior in general, including reproduction. Over time, societal behavior will change, just as it changed 50 or so years ago.

It took a long time to make this mess, and it will not be fixed overnight.

You honestly really think that 100 years ago people were different in that regard?

[jelgate]

You're talking to Annoyed. He was there when Reagan outright campaigned for amnesty in his primary for his first term and he still says that Reagan was forced to accept amnesty.

How foolish of me. We shouldn't let a trivial thing like facts get in the way

[Coco Pops]

Well that is interesing, the CIA warn about possible Russian involvement with Trump, but the GOP suppressed the info during the election while loudly announcing Comey's FBI info as the smoking gun that'd take down Crooked Hillary. Oh no Hilary was the evil incarnate but this is fine and dandy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13Z05B

There are of course the usual cries of it being "fake news" - wasn't aware that the CIA and the 16 other international intelligence organisations that warned of the same thing were news stations. Also these organisations have indicated that the same thing is being tried with German elections too.

More concerning is the fact that Trump supporters STILL point to Clinton as the greater evil, effectively saying that they'd rather have Russia steal an election than allow her to win. Effectively saying that even if an investigation PROVES Russian involvement well that's cool, Trump still won. This from the same people who want those who burn the American flag locked up.

Trump asks the Russians ON TV to hack Hillary, so if an investigation shows they actually followed his request and did what he asked, then what does that mean for the President Elect? Will he be forced to stand down? Will there be hints behind the scenes that if he doesn't and this goes all the way he can't make an out-of-court settlement for treason or conspiracy charges? How much will Trump stand up and act tough and defiant claiming he "always wins" court cases when he's told that it won't be a fine, but would be life without parole or maybe even lethal injection?

And, even if there is the barest whiff of it going that far, how long do you think Kellyanne Conway, Giuliani, Christie and the rest would be standing by him?

[SGalisa]

Do they care that Trump is walking back on nearly every promise and sound bite he uttered during the campaign and that he's assembling a team that is exactly that Elite he wanted to fight?

caring? no. He's *not* even in office yet, so current time matters not.. or not so much, yet.
Ten more days to go before we find out if he's really going to be our next USA president or not, anyway.
Why *care* about something that is beyond our control, and especially if the proverbial tables turn, change, and puts Hillary Clinton at the helm instead?

ummm, no?

Agreed. No.
yikes! GF & I actually agreed on something!!
..but probably for different reasons, tho.

And how much did obozo cost us with all his damn golf trips?

Including vacations and security, plus media travel expenses = far more multi-millions of dollars over the past 8 years, than he paid in his (family) taxes.

His softening his stance on illegals has irked me.. SOO too was his chat about NOT going after hillary now, even though it was one of his big promises.. BUT i will still give him time, he has yet to get sworn in.. SO maybe his talk now, is just to placate the whiners...

Trump.. he can't go after Hillary now. He does not have the authority to do so. Plus, if / when finally in office as President, it'd be Better for Trump to hand the situation over to the people who have a better grasp at what to do, when, where and how, than to do it on his own. Plus, if Hillary knows she'd be investigated and either
1) destroys all evidence and tracks leading to the various directions of any wrong-doing, or
2) leaves the (USA) country for 4 or 8 years or whatever length she feels is safe to never get penalized for whatever *might* be found--
she'd be a fugitive.. but already apparently has backup plans on an alternate home over in Dubai or at one of Al Gore's off-shore (island?) estates.

Do they care that Trump is ... assembling a team that is exactly that Elite he wanted to fight?

I think it's a different kind of "Elite" = people with the skills & abilities to accomplish certain goals / wealthy folks with *some* morals.
..as opposed to the current USA admin/agency, etc. = people with few or no morals attached, which is what many in the Dem party have already demonstrated in the past 8 years.

[garhkal]

This toss stain is not even your president and he is costing you money, how much did Obozo cost you at the same time?

So Trump's a toss stain? And liberals wonder why we on the right / conservatives see you guys as intolerant..

How much time do you need mate?

At least a few months in office imo to tell if he really IS gonna be bad or its just liberals flustering..

So let me get this straight. The Central Intelligence Agency of the United States of America says that they have strong evidence that points to meddling in the electoral affairs of the United States of America by none other than the Russian Federation and this is somehow just dismissed as "democrats whining"?

And, just as with the FBI investigation into Hillary's scandals, the management; official mouthpieces of the agencies, who are subject to the whim of the executive say one thing, but others whose jobs may not be on the line say the opposite.

Gotta learn to read between the lines. The whole truth is never made known to the masses here.

And the CIA is supposed to be trust worthy, while the FBI is not?

You honestly really think that 100 years ago people were different in that regard?

Since 100 years ago there wasn't welfare to act as a financial safety net for their bad decisions, YES i do think they were more responsible..

[jelgate]

You'd be wrong. If anything lack of money has the opposite effect

[SoulReaver]

And the CIA is supposed to be trust worthy, while the FBI is not?

real question is which of the 2 has real power at home

[Coco Pops]

real question is which of the 2 has real power at home

I'll go with the CIA they have cooler toys then the FBI.

So why isn't anyone blaming Comey for doing what he did? Yet people are coming out swinging at the CIA?

[Annoyed]

You're talking to Annoyed. He was there when Reagan outright campaigned for amnesty in his primary for his first term and he still says that Reagan was forced to accept amnesty.

I think you are confusing me. I know that Reagan signed the 1986 Amnesty deal, and he liked the idea.
The problem is that along with Amnesty, the deal also specifed that we strengthen our border security to block future illegal immigration, and severe restrictions/penalties on employers who hired illegals.

We got the Amnesty, but never got the other two parts. As I recall, they were blocked by Congress. Back then, we had 3-4 million illegals. Considering that we are now talking about numbers starting in the 11 million range and up, that didn't work out so well, did it?

So, as they say, we've been there and done that.

Which is why I have my current stance on illegal immigration.
1: Secure the border. No, I mean, really secure it. And don't even try to tell me we "can't". That is pure BS.

2: Round up every person who is in this country illegally regardless of how they are here illegally, sneaking in or overstaying a visa/etc., by any means necessary and immediately deport them to their country of origin. No BS, no excuses. Family members will be offered transportation to accompany them, if desired. If their home country refuses to take them, that nation should be cut off from any and all US aid, be faced with trade embargoes or whatever economic penalties can be imposed.

No, we can't achieve 100% on this, but we sure as hell can try.

3: As far as "path to citizenship", goes, we already have one. Anyone who wishes to migrate to this country legally is welcome to use that. But of course, their prior criminal record (sneaking in or overstaying) will be one of the factors considered when their application is evaluated. Breaking our laws by sneaking in or whatever doesn't suggest that person will be any more likely to behave themselves in other aspects.

[Annoyed]

Well that is interesing, the CIA warn about possible Russian involvement with Trump, but the GOP suppressed the info during the election while loudly announcing Comey's FBI info as the smoking gun that'd take down Crooked Hillary. Oh no Hilary was the evil incarnate but this is fine and dandy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13Z05B

There are of course the usual cries of it being "fake news" - wasn't aware that the CIA and the 16 other international intelligence organisations that warned of the same thing were news stations. Also these organisations have indicated that the same thing is being tried with German elections too.

More concerning is the fact that Trump supporters STILL point to Clinton as the greater evil, effectively saying that they'd rather have Russia steal an election than allow her to win. Effectively saying that even if an investigation PROVES Russian involvement well that's cool, Trump still won. This from the same people who want those who burn the American flag locked up.

Trump asks the Russians ON TV to hack Hillary, so if an investigation shows they actually followed his request and did what he asked, then what does that mean for the President Elect? Will he be forced to stand down? Will there be hints behind the scenes that if he doesn't and this goes all the way he can't make an out-of-court settlement for treason or conspiracy charges? How much will Trump stand up and act tough and defiant claiming he "always wins" court cases when he's told that it won't be a fine, but would be life without parole or maybe even lethal injection?

And, even if there is the barest whiff of it going that far, how long do you think Kellyanne Conway, Giuliani, Christie and the rest would be standing by him?

Last I heard, the CIA says the Russians successfully hacked into the Republican's systems, just as they did the Democrats, but only released info from the Democrats, harmful to Hillary.

But the FBI says there is no proof that they even gained access to the Republican's system.

Maybe this has something to do with that. The CIA reports to the Director of National Intelligence who is subject to the authority, direction, and control of the President.

Smell anything stinky?

Trump won the election, and will be POTUS on January 20th. Stop squirming around and wishing that it's not going to happen.

[SoulReaver]

of course he will be - because the elections were rigged (for him). rigging presidentials is a Gop thing not a Dnc thing. so far that's 3 elections that the Gop has stolen

[Annoyed]

caring? no. He's *not* even in office yet, so current time matters not.. or not so much, yet.
Ten more days to go before we find out if he's really going to be our next USA president or not, anyway.
Why *care* about something that is beyond our control, and especially if the proverbial tables turn, change, and puts Hillary Clinton at the helm instead?

At this point, while still technically in the air, I think it's certain that Trump will be POTUS. The courts have put the kibosh on the recount effort in at least one of the 3 states, and he needs all three to tip the scale, and with 306 electoral votes, I don't think they're going get enough electors to become faithless.

Trump.. he can't go after Hillary now. He does not have the authority to do so. Plus, if / when finally in office as President, it'd be Better for Trump to hand the situation over to the people who have a better grasp at what to do, when, where and how, than to do it on his own. Plus, if Hillary knows she'd be investigated and either
1) destroys all evidence and tracks leading to the various directions of any wrong-doing, or
2) leaves the (USA) country for 4 or 8 years or whatever length she feels is safe to never get penalized for whatever *might* be found--
she'd be a fugitive.. but already apparently has backup plans on an alternate home over in Dubai or at one of Al Gore's off-shore (island?) estates.

Or the LSoS simply issues a pardon.

[garhkal]

real question is which of the 2 has real power at home

Neither, they all bow down to the awesomeness that is the shield!

I think you are confusing me. I know that Reagan signed the 1986 Amnesty deal, and he liked the idea.
The problem is that along with Amnesty, the deal also specifed that we strengthen our border security to block future illegal immigration, and severe restrictions/penalties on employers who hired illegals.

We got the Amnesty, but never got the other two parts. As I recall, they were blocked by Congress. Back then, we had 3-4 million illegals. Considering that we are now talking about numbers starting in the 11 million range and up, that didn't work out so well, did it?

And that imo is why the leftist dems are once again harping on ;mass amnesty' so they can do it all over again..

[Gatefan1976]

So Trump's a toss stain? And liberals wonder why we on the right / conservatives see you guys as intolerant..

Not at all.
You see, your behaviour is pretty easy to understand. Whiney liberals, LSoS, Nobama, welfare sponges, etc etc etc is all to be accepted and tolerated by the left because they are the tolerant party. When they have had enough and hit back, you cry that it is unfair and look for the very safe spaces you denigrate.
It's bully behaviour on the schoolyard level and it crosses every spectrum of the "hard right's" political platforms, so seeing the right whine when someone stands up to them is not a surprise at all.

At least a few months in office imo to tell if he really IS gonna be bad or its just liberals flustering..

100 days should be long enough. What the liberals are flustering about is seeing people being put into cabinet positions that they are not qualified for, have stated previously that they want to dismantle them, or are just looking for ways to be in charge of all regulations without having the expense of paying off politicians at all.
What's even more -hilarious- is the "damn liberal whiners" are fighting to HELP lower and middle class trump supporters, and those same supporters are the ones giving them grief, and nowhere is it more obvious than in Trumps tax plan.

Since 100 years ago there wasn't welfare to act as a financial safety net for their bad decisions, YES i do think they were more responsible..

[Gatefan1976]

Snort!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...d-trump-russia