The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

. . .
Great week to take a breather away from all of this political yakking.

What?

I don't think so.

Excuse me??

I think the radio program folks and maybe some newsy website comment blogs that have been stirring up that idea, but it's probably any side of the fence that could result in such a scenario.

Garbage.

When protesters turned into more violent streams with rioting (and etc.) in both Baltimore, MD, and Ferguson, MS to name a few and certain folks within those protesting ranks didn't get "their" way, they acted out their anger against anything and anyone who got in their way.

Why don't you just say "dem blacks"?
(note, I did not bring "race" into this, I just cut through the "PC crap" people claim to "hate".)

So, how many of them were conservative or Republican? Chances are very few in contrast to how many were of the democratic or liberal *mindset* with a "gimme, gimme" attitude. What they didn't get, they stole and pillaged and didn't care about who (innocent or not) got hurt in the process.

Yeah, gimme Justice, gimme Equal protection, gimmie a legal system that is not Racist.
How unfair...........

Plus, if some group is discovered getting paid to physically act out their anger, follow the money trail and see where it originates from -- that is, if it's not deeply hidden behind some other source that might be totally innocent, but possibly framed as the fall guy/gal.

How many links would you like to Drumpf telling people to beat the crap out of people would you like here?
How many of him saying he would pay for legal fee's if someone was sued?
How about some of an old white boy saying next time "one of them" comes in to "our rally" we just might have to kill him"?

I'm sure they were just framed, and gimmie gimme lefties...............

In other similar news, I was amazed to see Republicans, like Mitt Romney (supporting the so-called establishment), turn hostile against Donald Trump. That just seems to be more of the liberal / Democratic way, than Republican / conservative..

They created a monster that they cannot control, and you are amazed??
Can I have some of whatever you are on, because I think I could handle the subjective truth a little better.

Personally, some of what Trump says might simply be hot-air and bluster at the moment. The proof will be in the pudding on which way the wind will be blowing once and IF he even ultimately ends up as our next USA president.

Nothing gets into that bubble does it?

If Trump does win all the way into 2017, somehow I sense "a disturbance in the Force" that might not let his winning last into all 4 years. Depends on a bunch of factors, as well as what Trump has already said and made enemies of the folks he has spoken against. It will be those enemies on Trump's "to do.." list that might cause the deepest problems for the rest of us.

Ya think??

Don't forget, we also have a influx of displaced refugees expected to settle onto USA soil soon, before the 2016 year is over, and (based on what Europe has been experiencing in such a short period of time during these recent past months) "only God knows" what those people plan on doing or getting connected with.

America was built on refugees and slaves.

As far as immigration goes, instead of sending ALL of those "illegal" or "anchor baby" folks already here in the USA, and who've been here for years with their kids established in (mostly public) schools, don't send them back to their countries -- just to re-enter the states again. That's insane. Let them take the stay and take the test.. The good (immigrant) ones will lose their homes that they are already paying dedicated rent incomes to, and the corrupted folks will only take advantage of the chaos that might result from all that. ..and that's probably only going to stir the beginning of the "disturbance in the Force"..

No, seriously, what are you on?

There are anchor baby families who are paying higher rents, and paying that on time, as opposed to the native residents also living in the same town (and street), but the natives (generations of grounded USA born families) are leeching off the welfare system of us taxpayers. It's not a fair scenario, but that's what is going on in some places around the USA.

Yet, the answer is to deport them.
Well done righties!!
Lefties may -want- the government boob, but quite frankly, there isn't a lot left after you get through the -righties- sucking it dry.

[Gatefan1976]

Unless something changes, there's going to be an additional living former president that has to be accounted for that year. This isn't an 18% increase to each president's pension/protection expenses, it's an increase to the overall post-presidency coverage budget for all presidents and their spouses.

Please, don't bring facts into a delusion.

[Gatefan1976]

So basically Antonin 2.0 ...

Nah.
Scalia actually defended some leftist views, they want someone "better"

Aha, that explains Claire Rankin's tweet about happy Canada.

Belgium ranks 19 -- yeah, could be right.

Yeah, but we are never mentioned, if we were, we could drag ourselves up to a better number

[Gatefan1976]

Israel ranks 11th. Just below Australia and way above Belgium and the USA.

Which goes to show that it's not about how wealthy the country is or how peaceful. It's about how the people in that country handle the life they have.

Umm...................
I am not sure about that.
I think there is a large component of how well we believe our respective governments will work for "the people" as well. Neither of our countries are "super rich", and our level of "peacefulness" is certainly different, but I am pretty sure that "Joe Israeli" trusts that what the government does to protect them is basically fair for the circumstances and just gets on with it. Joe Australia basically feels the same. Yes, we complain about our governments or parties, but we -trust- that our elected officials are doing what we voted them in to do, or we would vote them out just as easily.

[Womble]

Umm...................
I am not sure about that.
I think there is a large component of how well we believe our respective governments will work for "the people" as well. Neither of our countries are "super rich", and our level of "peacefulness" is certainly different, but I am pretty sure that "Joe Israeli" trusts that what the government does to protect them is basically fair for the circumstances and just gets on with it. Joe Australia basically feels the same. Yes, we complain about our governments or parties, but we -trust- that our elected officials are doing what we voted them in to do, or we would vote them out just as easily.

I disagree on the deepest possible level. It's not about trust in the government, it's about the culture. There's not a whole lot of trust in elected officials around here, believe me.

One thing about the Israeli culture is that there is a sense of unity. The sense of "we the people". The average "Joe Israeli" feels a part of something bigger than themselves. He gets called up for reserve duty to defend his country every once in a while. He follows the achievements of his countrymen abroad, celebrates their victories and gets frustrated at their fails.

Then there's the huge, huge focus on personal relationships, especially family relationships. Israelis typically have much larger families than Europeans, and maintain a strong bond with their extended families. An average German wedding has 50-80 guests; a typical American wedding has 130-150 guests; a typical Israeli wedding will have upwards of 400 guests and will easily go over 500 if the bride and / or the groom are of Middle Eastern Jewish descent. So an average Joe Israeli has a huge social support network he can rely on if he is ever in trouble, and much of his life revolves around family events - weddings and associated events, Passover seders, ceremonies that have to do with childbirth etc. That's like an IV drip of happiness steadily distributed over the typical year.

Another thing is that Israelis are, on average, more religious and / or tradition-observing than most of the developed world, which gives much more happiness ooomph to holidays. An Israeli Passover seder or Jewish New Year is a much larger occasion than a European Easter or even a Thanksgiving in an American atheist home. (One downside of atheism, it hollows out holidays and their importance for happiness is not to be underestimated). The Israeli holidays are also less materialistic, in the sense that there isn't really a Christmas equivalent with an obsessive centrality of gifts.

Then there's the general acceptance of failure as something that happens to a man rather than something that defines a man. The Israeli culture is quite forgiving of failures, which is one reason why Israel has such a number of start-ups. People don't fear that having tried and failed will haunt them all their lives. From what I know it's quite different in many places. Poor school performance in Germany, for example, will impact one's job choices for their entire life; in Israel, employers judge you almost solely on personal impressions and work experience; whenever I sent out my resume, my employers have never been interested in how I did at school or uni.

[Annoyed]

And why doesn't the republican party wish to abide by their voters wishes?

Because for decades now, the "establishment" Republican party has been basically acting at the behest of large multinational corporations to the detriment of the US workers. They have signed on to numerous trade deals which essentially outsource our jobs and standard of living to other countries. This works out great for other countries, the multinational corporations who can shift their labor to low wage countries and of course the "establishment" politicians themselves via campaign contributions and other financial goodies from big business.

And it's not just outsourcing jobs.. Last year, I think it was, the "establishment" Republicans went on record as being in favor of increasing the number of H1-B Visas issued, allowing more immigrants to enter the US and work.. I think the biggest example was Microsoft, who was complaining about a shortage of programmers, despite the fact there are a glut of US workers who are qualified to take those jobs. The thing is, MS didn't want to have to pay decent wages, so they wanted immigrants to come in and flood the market so employers could pay shiznit wages.

OH! And look who supports this! The "establishments" now defeated candidate, Rubio.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gop-debate-20...rosoft-2160512

Republican presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio defended his support of federal H1B visas during the third Republican debate Wednesday, saying that the American higher education system needs to be reformed and that companies that abuse the program need to be banned from ever using it again. Rubio has been criticized by his Senate colleague Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., for a bill that would expand the visa program even though tech companies have been accused of laying off qualified American workers in order to bring in foreign workers who are paid less.

Disney is doing the same damned thing in Florida and probably California at its 2 big parks, Disneyland and Disney World. In that case, it was in the news just prior to the primaries in Florida, so I'm thinking that's a big reason Rubio got handed his head in that state. (his home state, btw)

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/tech...y-h1b-workers/

This same frustration with employment/economic issues is also a key part of Sander's support on the Democrat side. Sanders and Trump are both attacking the same problem albeit with different proposed solutions. I prefer what Trump offers.

Other factors are their complete and utter failure to stop the agenda of the current occupant of the White House. Former Speaker of the House John "balls - free" Boehner could be reliably counted upon to agree with the Democrats rather than stand up to them. Many of the current Republican party leaders are just "Democrat Lite"

You will note that almost all of Trump's supporters are working class folks, rather than the elites who make up the party leadership. And there are a lot more working stiffs than there are elites in the Republican party.

The biggest difference this time around is that Trump is the first candidate that has come along who even sounds like he wants to try to change some of this crap and more importantly, has the financial resources to do so. If need be, he can tell the the national party to go do something physically impossible with itself and continue as an independent. And I strongly suspect he will have to do so; we are now seeing solid indications that the est. leadership isn't going to accept him as the nominee despite the will of the voters.

Sadly, this is likely to work out to the benefit of the Democrats come November. If the old guard Republican party bosses do indeed buck the will of the voters, there is going to be a huge backlash; Many of the people they ignore will simply not vote or will vote for the Democratic nominee. It might just destroy the existing Republican party as it stands today, particularly if Trump has to run as an independent and wins the white house.

If you ask me, that would be a good thing.

[Annoyed]

When protesters turned into more violent streams with rioting (and etc.) in both Baltimore, MD, and Ferguson, MS to name a few and certain folks within those protesting ranks didn't get "their" way, they acted out their anger against anything and anyone who got in their way. So, how many of them were conservative or Republican? Chances are very few in contrast to how many were of the democratic or liberal *mindset* with a "gimme, gimme" attitude. What they didn't get, they stole and pillaged and didn't care about who (innocent or not) got hurt in the process.

Why don't you just say "dem blacks"?
(note, I did not bring "race" into this, I just cut through the "PC crap" people claim to "hate".)


Yeah, gimme Justice, gimme Equal protection, gimmie a legal system that is not Racist.
How unfair...........

Quite true. The "PC Crap" doesn't help a bit, just makes it easy to avoid the elephant in the room. Race is clearly a large part of this.

So never mind the semantics, are you in fact justifying the looting, theft and such that the protesters carried out in those cities? How does that behavior advance their stated cause of fighting racial injustice and bias in the legal system? Are the shop owners they stole from even able to make the changes they are supposedly protesting for?
If you ask me, not one bit. It simply brands them as criminals, not protesters petitioning the government for redress of grievances. By behaving as criminals, they damage their own cause. If you act like a criminal, expect to be treated as such.

[aretood2]

Quite true. The "PC Crap" doesn't help a bit, just makes it easy to avoid the elephant in the room. Race is clearly a large part of this.

So never mind the semantics, are you in fact justifying the looting, theft and such that the protesters carried out in those cities? How does that behavior advance their stated cause of fighting racial injustice and bias in the legal system? Are the shop owners they stole from even able to make the changes they are supposedly protesting for?
If you ask me, not one bit. It simply brands them as criminals, not protesters petitioning the government for redress of grievances. By behaving as criminals, they damage their own cause. If you act like a criminal, expect to be treated as such.

I think the issue is that people often forget that the protesters and the criminals aren't always the same people. I mean, remember the riots in Charleston SC? Oh wait...there were none. What about in Cincinnati? Oops again, no riots there. I mean, you don't notice it when there are no riots, but one riot in Baltimore and one in Ferguson and all of a sudden the protesters are meshed with the rioters. It's a pretty amazing ploy, a cop out even. Dismiss the protesters because rioters showed up. And not just the protesters in the cities where rioters showed up, but all protesters in all cities.

[Annoyed]

Did anybody in this conversation mention Cincinnati / SC ? I was specifically talking about events which were riots.

[Falcon Horus]

In other similar news, I was amazed to see Republicans, like Mitt Romney (supporting the so-called establishment), turn hostile against Donald Trump. That just seems to be more of the liberal / Democratic way, than Republican / conservative..

The whole party is against Trumpolini...

Personally, some of what Trump says might simply be hot-air and bluster at the moment. The proof will be in the pudding on which way the wind will be blowing once and IF he even ultimately ends up as our next USA president.

You do realize Trumpolini was given a 12 on the danger-scale, right. Same number as a terrorist grouping.

...(based on what Europe has been experiencing in such a short period of time during these recent past months)

Please, do tell.

Which goes to show that it's not about how wealthy the country is or how peaceful. It's about how the people in that country handle the life they have.

I'd put Belgium even lower on the scale then...

...European Easter...

It's all about the chocolate. Dark chocolate.... mmmmm....

[aretood2]

Did anybody in this conversation mention Cincinnati / SC ? I was specifically talking about events which were riots.

My point exactly. When talking about these issues people only ever mention the rioters, as you did. Never mind that they are not the same as the protesters at large. It's easier to dismiss the entire opposing argument by ignoring the peaceful protesters in favor of highlighting the rioters who may not even have been protesting in the first place.

[garhkal]

Did Trump say if not selected there would be riots?

From what i read/have heard on his statement, is that "If i am not elected, cause the GOP does a brokered convention, then they should expect riots".
Sort of saying to them, don't screw me over.

Plus, if some group is discovered getting paid to physically act out their anger, follow the money trail and see where it originates from -- that is, if it's not deeply hidden behind some other source that might be totally innocent, but possibly framed as the fall guy/gal.

I have heard that Moveon.org was those funding that Chicago riot to shut trump's appearance there down. Which to me means they were funding riots and are just as guilty as those who WERE rioting..

In other similar news, I was amazed to see Republicans, like Mitt Romney (supporting the so-called establishment), turn hostile against Donald Trump. That just seems to be more of the liberal / Democratic way, than Republican / conservative..

Which is why many of us call those people, RINO's (republicans in name only), since they act more like democrats than they do republicans..

If Trump does win all the way into 2017, somehow I sense "a disturbance in the Force" that might not let his winning last into all 4 years. Depends on a bunch of factors, as well as what Trump has already said and made enemies of the folks he has spoken against. It will be those enemies on Trump's "to do.." list that might cause the deepest problems for the rest of us.

I have heard others who have mentioned that they think Trump would get assassinated if he wins..

As far as immigration goes, instead of sending ALL of those "illegal" or "anchor baby" folks already here in the USA, and who've been here for years with their kids established in (mostly public) schools, don't send them back to their countries -- just to re-enter the states again. That's insane. Let them take the stay and take the test.. The good (immigrant) ones will lose their homes that they are already paying dedicated rent incomes to, and the corrupted folks will only take advantage of the chaos that might result from all that. ..and that's probably only going to stir the beginning of the "disturbance in the Force"..

Sorry but i disagree with this very much. To me, giving them effectively Amnesty is rewarding them for breaking the law and staying here for so long. Especially since a good chunk of them either are working under the table (illegal), with no proper ID (illegal), Fake ID (illegal) or stolen ids (again illegal).. And yes some will say "Why punish the kids for the sins of the parents", but as i have mentioned on that angle many a time, if a bank robber goes out with his loot he stole from the bank and bought his son a new bike, and clothes, they do NOT let the kid keep them when they finally capture the father.. So why reward kids of illegal immigrants?

And why doesn't the republican party wish to abide by their voters wishes?

Too used to the power they have...

You do realize Trumpolini was given a 12 on the danger-scale, right. Same number as a terrorist grouping.

What danger scale? And who makes that list up?

[SoulReaver]

You will note that almost all of Trump's supporters are working class folks, rather than the elites who make up the party leadership.

and that's the funny part
in fact I almost wish the bloke gets elected just to see the stupid look on their faces when their delusions are dispelled & reality hits them like a mac truck - they'll even miss the previous republican presidents
we might even be entreated to a second Ford March spectacle
lol

[Falcon Horus]

I have heard others who have mentioned that they think Trump would get assassinated if he wins..

That would quite possibly be the dumbest thing ever.

On the other hand, JFK was also assassinated.

What danger scale? And who makes that list up?

I couldn't remember when I saw it, but I went back and searched for it.

Here you go:

Donald Trump as US president rated ‘among top 10 global risks’

Trump presidency rated among top 10 global risks: Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU)

"Donald Trump winning the US presidency is considered one of the top 10 risks facing the world, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit."

He is rated as riskier than Britain leaving the European Union or an armed clash in the South China Sea.

China encountering a "hard landing" or sharp economic slowdown and Russia's interventions in Ukraine and Syria preceding a new "cold war" are among the events seen as more dangerous.

"Thus far Mr Trump has given very few details of his policies - and these tend to be prone to constant revision," the EIU said in its global risk assessment, which looks at impact and probability.

The EIU ranking uses a scale of one to 25, with Mr Trump garnering a rating of 12, the same level of risk as "the rising threat of jihadi terrorism destabilising the global economy".

[Gatefan1976]

What danger scale? And who makes that list up?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35828747