Originally posted by Annoyed
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@Pooky - your bugs-signature ... I love it. Just the kind of humor I needed today (as I probably flunked my C# exam).
Originally posted by Womble View PostJavascript?
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostI don't see it as a bubble of safety. I see it as I'm already living in the best country on the face of the Earth, why would I wish to go elsewhere. I realize others may not share those views of the US, but they are mine.Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Originally posted by garhkal View PostWomble. How long then does someone 'get to live here and be considered a 'new immigrant' before we then start saying OK you have been here long enough these translation services are no longer going to be provided to you?
At 200 Bil, yes it would.
BUT i also call BS on that figure.
Looking around the web, there are several sites stating that the US-Mexico border is 1000 miles long. So at 200 bil, that makes each MILE of wall, 200 Million dollars in cost. Sorry, but what the fark are they making that wall out of???
I can maybe see 20-30 thousand dollars a mile for a wall.
How's about go to school? Are not most of these south American nations similar to the US/Europe in that Schooling is free (up to college)?
Ok for ya, here it is again (well one of the links and a snippet from it)
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...s-civil-cases/
"The state has about seven million residents with limited English proficiency who speak over 200 languages."
When that is both what i see and what is told to me FtF, then how can i NOT have confirmation Bias?
Then why was it reported several years back, that CAUSE of the flood of illegals, several hospitals have had to close down due to lack of funds, after having to eat the cost OF serving those illegals?
And with several estimates showing 20-30% of those IN prisons are illegal immigrants, caught for other crimes, how can anyone say that is not raising our crime levels?
So none of these countries offer English in their schools? With the # of US expats who have Emigrated to some of these central/south American countries to teach at those schools i find that hard to believe..
While millions who come here don't know English beyond a novice level, millions of other do know almost to an intermediate level (they just lack the immersion which they'll attain by living in the US). Don't forget, millions do come here with some level of English comprehension and proficiency. The immigrant population is really really huge. 7 Million Californians barely makes 10% (much less I think) of the entire population. And remember, many of those 7 million know some level of English, just not fluent or intermediate.
Then perhaps just building a wall/fence itself is not enough. It needs to go deep (or as i have advocated several times, DITCH the border, build a rampart on our side, THEN put the wall on top of that.. And since we have sensors to monitor seismic activity, why not have those along the border to detect those tunnels being build..??
With a wall/ditch up, we should need less to watch the border itself, and have more to concentrate ON those entrance points, so that avenue of smuggling would get lessened.
But then if we also stopped one of the biggest draws (the handouts and money they can make here by hammering down on those who hire illegals), imo that will itself act as a stopper to a good chunk of those smuggling into the country. NOT all i agree. BUT a chunk of it.
Originally posted by Annoyed View PostLast time I checked, U.S. citizens didn't get free translators for legalese either. They are called lawyers, and are very expensive.
Originally posted by Womble View Post
You're spouting nonsense, plain and simple. There is but one reason why providing services in languages other than English would bother you, and that is jealousy. "You were there first", and you want to rig the rules to stay on top and keep the newcomers down while blaming them for failing to adapt under these rules. It's completely stupid and wasteful, it's not in the best interests of your country, but the pride of the native-born is above pragmatism, isn't it?
What's the logical conclusion of that thought process? This link has it. A man beaten brutally after being urinated on by two brothers. The reason? The brothers thought he was "an illegal" and thus deserved the beating and defecation. Why did they think he was an illegal immigrant? Because he was Hispanic. Turns out that the victim wasn't an illegal immigrant. Oh, and they invoked Donald Trump.
These sort of attacks have been going on for decades and each time someone gets up to call hispanics rapists or some other generalizations they keep happening.
Say what you want about George W Bush. But after 9/11 he made it abundantly clear that Americans who were Muslim were not the enemy. The only think Trump and his ilk have made clear is that Hispanics don't want to learn English, they are illegal, they are criminals and rapists, they cause crime and chaos, and they are destroying America.
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostI don't see it as a bubble of safety. I see it as I'm already living in the best country on the face of the Earth, why would I wish to go elsewhere.If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.
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Originally posted by Pharaoh Hamenthotep View PostIf you build a wall 1000 miles long, then anyone crossing the border will just go around it The border is 1930-1950 miles long.
Originally posted by Womble View PostHow about a refugee from a country afflicted by war or starvation who never planned to leave his homeland but is forced to do it in order to survive - how realistic is it to expect them to "come prepared"?
Originally posted by Pharaoh Hamenthotep View PostIt's easy to say "I could learn another language if I wanted to" when you're not in a position where you need to do so. You absolutely should travel outside your little bubble of safety. It will make you realise how much more complicated the world really is. If you have first hand experience of other cultures, see how they live. You might understand their situation a little better.
I took French for my middle school teachings, and German for the Upper school. Even to this day there are still some phrases i remember. BUT give me a newspaper, and i'd be damned if i could read more than 5% of it..
Originally posted by aretood2 View PostTechnically, you could (as in YOU garhkal) request translation services...not that they'd be of any use to you...or me. While I grew up Bilingual, like the vast majority of my peers, English is my dominant language. Getting translation services would actually be counterproductive for me as it would make it harder for me to understand what needs to be understood.
Originally posted by aretood2 View PostTake all of the stuff SGalisa said, the response to her post about beefing up the wall and everything PH said and add it up, double the mileage and the 200 billion makes more sense. Why do you think extremely large properties favor chain linked fences? Because walls, secured walls with the features needed for the border, are ridiculously expensive.
Originally posted by aretood2 View PostAnd how many Argentine or Chilean immigrants (legal or otherwise) are flooding the US exactly? Including legal and illegal immigrants, there are only 2.7 million South Americans in the US, and they tend to be much more educated and proficient in English.
Originally posted by aretood2 View PostI am confused...do you know what that means?
Originally posted by aretood2 View PostSources please. I ask because I did provide CATO as my source. If you want links, give me time and I can give you links and you can read the studies and articles yourself.
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Got one.. Doing a quick search came up with
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html
Here's a nice article from the New York Times on the recent announcement by Northridge Hospital Medical Center that they will be closing by December 31.
This follows a recent announcement of the closure of the emergency room at Elastar Community Hospital in East Los Angeles.
Four other emergency rooms have closed in the county in the last two years. The reason given is the high cost of treating uninsured people. The article also states that 70 hospital emergency rooms and trauma centers have closed in California since 1990.
"We're mandated to treat anyone who comes in through those doors, regardless of their ability to pay," Tracey Veal, a spokeswoman for the Northridge hospital, said.
Ms. Veal estimated that the hospital had spent $13 million on so-called charity care in the fiscal year that ended on June 30.
While the New York Times does not exactly specify illegal aliens as the cause, it is quite obvious by these numbers.
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Originally posted by aretood2 View Post[COLOR=#000080]I don't think it's just jealousy. It's scapegoating plain and simple. The big scary brown Hispanic despite the changes in rates of immigration, legal or otherwise. Despite the facts, despite the record low border crossings. It's still all about Hispanics and their blasphemous Spanish language.
What's the logical conclusion of that thought process? This link has it. A man beaten brutally after being urinated on by two brothers. The reason? The brothers thought he was "an illegal" and thus deserved the beating and defecation. Why did they think he was an illegal immigrant? Because he was Hispanic. Turns out that the victim wasn't an illegal immigrant. Oh, and they invoked Donald Trump.
These sort of attacks have been going on for decades and each time someone gets up to call hispanics rapists or some other generalizations they keep happening.
Say what you want about George W Bush. But after 9/11 he made it abundantly clear that Americans who were Muslim were not the enemy. The only think Trump and his ilk have made clear is that Hispanics don't want to learn English, they are illegal, they are criminals and rapists, they cause crime and chaos, and they are destroying America.If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.
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Here's a crazy idea.. Instead of building an economy-ruining wall to keep the evil immigrants out, why not work with the governments of their own countries to improve living conditions where ever it is they're all coming from?
They're risking everything to get to the US for a better life, right? But if their homelands were made more appealing, if they had a sense of purpose there, and a quality of life that compares to what they hope to achieve in the US, wouldn't that give them more reason to want to stay where they are?
Wouldn't that solve the immigration crisis, help stabilise economies (the young working age folks aren't all leaving) and create a better world for everyone?
But it involves people working together for the good of others, so it will probably never happen..
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Originally posted by Pharaoh Hamenthotep View PostHere's a crazy idea.. Instead of building an economy-ruining wall to keep the evil immigrants out, why not work with the governments of their own countries to improve living conditions where ever it is they're all coming from?
They're risking everything to get to the US for a better life, right? But if their homelands were made more appealing, if they had a sense of purpose there, and a quality of life that compares to what they hope to achieve in the US, wouldn't that give them more reason to want to stay where they are?
Wouldn't that solve the immigration crisis, help stabilise economies (the young working age folks aren't all leaving) and create a better world for everyone?
But it involves people working together for the good of others, so it will probably never happen..
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Originally posted by Annoyed View PostShould not that task be laid at the feet of the Mexican government?
Maybe the great and wise Annoyed can help point them in the right direction. Working together is the key. You want them out. So help them want to stay out.
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Originally posted by garhkal View PostGot one.. Doing a quick search came up with
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html
I have something from the RAND corporation (in case people are getting tired of CATO links) regarding this issue that I find interesting. Linky.
Yeah there's some (Though a whole lot less than is reported by..."certain sources") money loss there. But it would be lost regardless of their legal status because...face it. America isn't the place that insures everyone. Either the health care system needs some major overhaul or a form of universal care is needed. Obamacare is just a horrible patchwork that only managed to insure a portion of the uninsured so it's not like that solved anything yet.
Originally posted by Womble View PostTruth be told, USA is far from being the most attractive place for immigrants right now. Compared to Western Europe, assistance provided to immigrants is meager, social security is barely there, healthcare access is awful. For a man in his 40-s or older, who has no savings in the local pension funds, it's a rather hard proposition. Were it not for proximity factor, I have a feeling that many Mexicans would much prefer Canada.
People who understand that still figure that it is better to work and live in the US (jobs are still more plenty and secure) than stay in Mexico. So they know what they are getting themselves into. Thus the decline in immigration from Mexico over the past decade, and it doesn't seem to be stopping. Still a lot of people are coming though. But yeah, if given the choice many would go to where jobs are increasingly secure as well as their income (being insulated by the devastating effects of illness).
Canada is more attractive because an illness won't spell certain doom. And there's currently (though they are there) no prominent Trump like figures calling everyone a rapist or something. But above all, immigrants simply want good paying jobs that are secure.
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Originally posted by Pharaoh Hamenthotep View PostWho said anything about Mexicans?
Maybe the great and wise Annoyed can help point them in the right direction. Working together is the key. You want them out. So help them want to stay out.sigpicALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yetThe truth isn't the truth
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