The Political Discussion Thread

[mad_gater]

How would you know they cost that much?????? Do you even know how much it costs.

I know toilet seats don't cost that much....but I've heard of budget statements coming in that look like that.....it means that they're trying to disguise a rather large expenditure as something innocuous.....that's what waste I'm talking about.....and when they try to disguise purchases in such a way it makes me mighty suspicious as to what that money is really being used for

[mad_gater]

Well Greenland has more ice than Iceland.

not by much though probably...

[Rudy Pena]

I know toilet seats don't cost that much....but I've heard of budget statements coming in that look like that.....it means that they're trying to disguise a rather large expenditure as something innocuous.....that's what waste I'm talking about.....and when they try to disguise purchases in such a way it makes me mighty suspicious as to what that money is really being used for

Well I can tell you, that toilet seats are made from plastic and everywhere I have been there are toilet seats that are so many years old. In my unit alone the restrooms they havent be touched in over 3 years( I have been in the unit for 3 years, so at a min 3 years). So about the toilet seats is false, my dear.

[jmoz]

Spoiler:

Which ones?

Good thing that you are not supporting that since there is no such thing as pure socialism. Socialism itself is a half ******* hybrid. The only way that big buisness can limit the freedoms of anyone else is through the power of Government as we have seen countless times in the recent years.

So in Scandanavia they chose which buisnesses they support, and which they do not, that is not being an umpire that is being an active participant. And that limits freedoms. And they control health care and education? The two most important aspects of ones life to control. Without them and without freedom for those choices freedom in anything else becomes meaningless.

No that is not what Government is for. Government is to protect someones life, liberty, and property. And their ability to pursue happiness. There is no proper justification for Government to both be the cop, and an actual player on the field. And people are not inherently anything. And the idea of Socialism that I have heard advocated on GW is that people there is no way that people can e charitable enough to meet the needs of all people, one that is not the point of charity, but on the other hand if there is no way there is not enough wealth in the country to provide for everyone and their brother through charity. Then how the heck can their be enough money in this country and enough wealth to help everyone and their brother even if you taxed them one hundred percent? Especially considering Governments are very ineficient, very bad with their money, and very poor at distribution. probably why we are in such a deep debt. And oh yes before I forget. You know what the Government is made up of? PEOPLE. The same ignorant, greedy, stupid, selfish people that you just railed against and you expect them to act like angels because they are in Government?

Really? The only way big business can limit people's freedom is through the government huh? So there is no undercutting and monopolizing? lol

lol what? I dont get the point of your last paragraph.

Sorry ESA, I stand corrected, but they do control some aspects of business and are better for it.

Spoiler:

because MY money is not the government's to do with as it pleases.....nothing good comes of allowing the government to control any facet of your personal life.....once you allow that, it's only a matter of time before government has 100% total control over your life....the sooner you get that, the better off you'll be.......and you cannot get more freedom by relinquishing freedom.....that has to be the dumbest suggestion yet.....and I assert that many people would still help charities because thankfully the people who spend their money unwisely tend to be in the minority.....the majority of the American people are extremely generous with what fruits of their labor they can spare

allowing government control over your private lives such as how you manage your money and how you use resources is an all or nothing thing....if you allow no government control over your lives besides what is necessary to keep the peace, maintain the infrastructure necessary to conduct lawful commerce, and defend the nation, then liberty remains intact.....but as soon as you allow government control over your private affairs, liberty dies and will be replaced by socialism....because each facet that you allow the government to control will be used by government as a precedent to control the next facet, and from there the next facet, and so on until before you know it...the government has absolute control over how you live your life

lol who said you were giving 100% control of your life to your government? What the hell are you talking about? Making broad exaggerations. LOL, what the hell? Of course you get more freedom by relinquishing some of it. You give a little to get more freedoms. If you're too busy keeping all of your freedom, then you're too busy with yourself and too busy maintaining your own autonomy. In the end, you're too busy maintaining that and become too busy to have freedom to do anything but that. But with some form of government, you get organized efforts and which have greater yields than your singular yield. That's the whole point, to have greater yield through organized effort allowing you to have more freedom to do other things rather than maintain your "personal" freedom. That's the whole point of government. It establishes, organizes, and maintains the bureaucratic needs of the people. Think you might enjoy an introductory course of philosophy, introduces basic political theory.

That's an absurd exaggeration and conclusion. You say that it's an all or nothing situation? Where'd you pull that out of? You're making sweeping broad generalizations with little to no backing. Are you for anarchy or something? You'd have nothing then but likely a rise of war lord type of governments taking back civilization a couple millennia.

[mad_gater]

Well I can tell you, that toilet seats are made from plastic and everywhere I have been there are toilet seats that are so many years old. In my unit alone the restrooms they havent be touched in over 3 years( I have been in the unit for 3 years, so at a min 3 years). So about the toilet seats is false, my dear.

in other words.....people in the military are making a joke about waste.....it means that the $5 million most likely did NOT go towards toilet seats and went towards something likely considered wasteful if they didn't disguise it....in other words...in cases like the $500 hammer we have to find out where the money REALLY went is what I'm trying to say

[Col.Foley]

Really? The only way big business can limit people's freedom is through the government huh? So there is no undercutting and monopolizing? lol

lol what? I dont get the point of your last paragraph.

Sorry ESA, I stand corrected, but they do control some aspects of business and are better for it.



lol who said you were giving 100% control of your life to your government? What the hell are you talking about? Making broad exaggerations. LOL, what the hell? Of course you get more freedom by relinquishing some of it. You give a little to get more freedoms. If you're too busy keeping all of your freedom, then you're too busy with yourself and too busy maintaining your own autonomy. In the end, you're too busy maintaining that and become too busy to have freedom to do anything but that. But with some form of government, you get organized efforts and which have greater yields than your singular yield. That's the whole point, to have greater yield through organized effort allowing you to have more freedom to do other things rather than maintain your "personal" freedom. That's the whole point of government. It establishes, organizes, and maintains the bureaucratic needs of the people. Think you might enjoy an introductory course of philosophy, introduces basic political theory.

That's an absurd exaggeration and conclusion. You say that it's an all or nothing situation? Where'd you pull that out of? You're making sweeping broad generalizations with little to no backing. Are you for anarchy or something? You'd have nothing then but likely a rise of war lord type of governments taking back civilization a couple millennia.

Undercutting is a proper and legitimate buisness tactic used when buisnesses feel the loss in profit is worth the risk for the potential long term gains. And Monopolies are usually helped along, and made easier by, Government intervention. This has been the case time and time and time again. Governments propping up and saying company A is good while company B has to die. Too big to fail.

That seems to be an interesting problem

[mad_gater]

Really? The only way big business can limit people's freedom is through the government huh? So there is no undercutting and monopolizing? lol

lol what? I dont get the point of your last paragraph.

Sorry ESA, I stand corrected, but they do control some aspects of business and are better for it.



lol who said you were giving 100% control of your life to your government? What the hell are you talking about? Making broad exaggerations. LOL, what the hell? Of course you get more freedom by relinquishing some of it. You give a little to get more freedoms. If you're too busy keeping all of your freedom, then you're too busy with yourself and too busy maintaining your own autonomy. In the end, you're too busy maintaining that and become too busy to have freedom to do anything but that. But with some form of government, you get organized efforts and which have greater yields than your singular yield. That's the whole point, to have greater yield through organized effort allowing you to have more freedom to do other things rather than maintain your "personal" freedom. That's the whole point of government. It establishes, organizes, and maintains the bureaucratic needs of the people. Think you might enjoy an introductory course of philosophy, introduces basic political theory.

That's an absurd exaggeration and conclusion. You say that it's an all or nothing situation? Where'd you pull that out of? You're making sweeping broad generalizations with little to no backing. Are you for anarchy or something? You'd have nothing then but likely a rise of war lord type of governments taking back civilization a couple millennia.

yes it's all or nothing....you either limit the government to the powers enumerated to it in the Constitution or you don't

[Col.Foley]

yes it's all or nothing....you either limit the government to the powers enumerated to it in the Constitution or you don't

or if you want you ammend the Constitution.

[Rudy Pena]

in other words.....people in the military are making a joke about waste.....it means that the $5 million most likely did NOT go towards toilet seats and went towards something likely considered wasteful if they didn't disguise it....in other words...in cases like the $500 hammer we have to find out where the money REALLY went is what I'm trying to say

The money goes to the much bigger stuff like weapons technology to way of better protecting a soldier while deployed. But also lots of money goes to different Government Contractor companies and Private Companies. If you really knew where, then you wouldnt be saying what you are saying, but something a little but different.

Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers is a good movie to watch, if you have netflix you can watch it instantly. There are companies doing our jobs and getting payed more than we do.

[jmoz]

Undercutting is a proper and legitimate buisness tactic used when buisnesses feel the loss in profit is worth the risk for the potential long term gains. And Monopolies are usually helped along, and made easier by, Government intervention. This has been the case time and time and time again. Governments propping up and saying company A is good while company B has to die. Too big to fail.

That seems to be an interesting problem

Which limits small business, the bigger businesses can afford to undercut the smaller businesses and drive them out and buy them up after they've collapsed.

You have no backing to that claim that it's all or nothing.

[Col.Foley]

Which limits small business, the bigger businesses can afford to undercut the smaller businesses and drive them out and buy them up after they've collapsed.

You have no backing to that claim that it's all or nothing.

which then the small buisness owners can decide to take the money and they benefit. Or go into buisness with the big buisness, or here is a novel idea, go out and actually fight and provide a superior product and service that can serve as a niche that the other big buisness cannot provide. Again no one is forcing you out of buisness...only way that can happen in through the power of Government. Or if you fail at your buisness. Which does not prevent you from trying again.

talking to Mad?

[Rudy Pena]

which then the small buisness owners can decide to take the money and they benefit. Or go into buisness with the big buisness, or here is a novel idea, go out and actually fight and provide a superior product and service that can serve as a niche that the other big buisness cannot provide. Again no one is forcing you out of buisness...only way that can happen in through the power of Government. Or if you fail at your buisness. Which does not prevent you from trying again.

talking to Joe?

Which is what AT&T did back in the day, they bought all the other phone companies. At one time AT&T was the only provider until the government stepped in and the result is what you see nowadays.


Also, When electic cars first came out over 7 years was the Gas Companies bought the copyrights stuff and now look at where we are at. Gas costs over $4 in some areas of the US alone. Also now look with the gas prices and todays world people are starting to go with hybids and electic cars due to the fact that many people cant pay so much for gas. People are now walking, riding bikes to car pooling, to even taking buses and trains.

[jmoz]

What do you mean they aren't being forced out of business? They can't maintain a business if it isn't profiting them. I think we can both just agree big business is bad in some practices such as making you completely dependent on them and limiting the growth of small business and becoming too big that they have some leeway into the affairs of the government because of the dependency.

[Rudy Pena]

What do you mean they aren't being forced out of business? They can't maintain a business if it isn't profiting them. I think we can both just agree big business is bad in some practices such as making you completely dependent on them and limiting the growth of small business and becoming too big that they have some leeway into the affairs of the government because of the dependency.

Big businesses are putting small ones out by going overseas to other countries with cheap pay and great labors, which is why the big ones are so big and thats why its hard to find and get a job in the US.

[Col.Foley]

Which is what AT&T did back in the day, they bought all the other phone companies. At one time AT&T was the only provider until the government stepped in and the result is what you see nowadays.


Also, When electic cars first came out over 7 years was the Gas Companies bought the copyrights stuff and now look at where we are at. Gas costs over $4 in some areas of the US alone. Also now look with the gas prices and todays world people are starting to go with hybids and electic cars due to the fact that many people cant pay so much for gas. People are now walking, riding bikes to car pooling, to even taking buses and trains.

Exactly they bought them which means the people in question had to take the money and agree to give up the patent and the stuff. Unless of course the Government came in and forced them to do it. They took the money and ran, which in your mind set should make them just as calpable as the big bad buisnesses.

good for them