The Political Discussion Thread

[dosed150]

if prostitutes are slaves because they need that money to live then surely anyone who earns a wage for anything is a slave,

then bringing sodom and Gomorrah into a logical argument, might as well start talking about mordor

[lordofseas]

if prostitutes are slaves because they need that money to live then surely anyone who earns a wage for anything is a slave,

then bringing sodom and Gomorrah into a logical argument, might as well start talking about mordor

One does not simply ARGUE into Mordor!

[Daedalus-304]

if prostitutes are slaves because they need that money to live then surely anyone who earns a wage for anything is a slave,

No there is a difference, often prostitutes are victims of human trafficking. Some are forcefully addicted to drugs in order to get them to comply. Others are young and vulnerable girls/young women that have been targeted and manipulated.

[KEK]

No there is a difference, often prostitutes are victims of human trafficking. Some are forcefully addicted to drugs in order to get them to comply. Others are young and vulnerable girls/young women that have been targeted and manipulated.

Very true. Much like he drug trade, the only way to take it out of the hands of criminal gangs is to legalize and regulate it.

[Joachim]

Very true. Much like he drug trade, the only way to take it out of the hands of criminal gangs is to legalize and regulate it.

which is what i think he was getting at; legalized prostitution. that is what we were originally discussing, after all.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Lol I started a thread on whether drugs should be legal a while ago but it's long since died.

I think all drugs should be legal, regulated and taxed like Cigs and Alcohol are, even heroin and Cocaine as they remain in the criminals hands like in Mexico and can lead to narco states like Columbia and possibly Afghanistan. People will do drugs whatever the government says so we might as well help them to it safley while encoureging them not to or limit the amonunt they take like they do with cigs at the moment.

The same goes for prostatution but I am concerced that this may incrase the attitude that women are comodeites to be bought and sold. If they could be treated like the facilitator of a service instead of women to be bought I would have no problem what so ever. Anyway legal brothel will ensure those who choose do so can do it safely. So prostitution should be legal.

What annoys me about marriage is that people who have no belief in god or don't like religion will get married in a church when they never go or have never been before. The same goes for getting their children christened I have been to few proper White weddings and Christenings of people who don't go to church or call themselves atheists. They are IMHO sheeps going along with what everyone else does like it's fashion. Funny thing this type of wedding is what most women want when it doesn't even represent anything they believe.

If I ever get married I will never do it in a church, I guess I will have to find a girl who agrees .

[jmoz]

Step 1: Find a girl.
Step 2: Get her drunk.
Step 3: Get married.

[Col.Foley]

For those of you just dying to see and hear my thoughts on this matter, you know who you are.

So anyways...what is the Prime Directive of the Government, the three things that Governments must do before all else, all else is secondary to this objective?

To protect and PROMOTE people's Lives, Liberty, and their ability to pursue happiness through economic means.

I am a Libertarian, and a Capitalist, as such I can appreciate and sympathise when anyone wants to create a new good or service or do what they believe is something that increases freedom. And in fact some part of me wants to legalize prostititution because of many of the things that have been mentioned above.

However, it is a highly immoral act and it is not for me personally. And in legalizing prostitution, or forbidding it we have to answer the above question, just what does it do if we forbid, what gives Government the right?

One can certainly make the argument that allowing it would increase Liberty for all people who would pursue it. And as for economic happiness having an income certainly cannot help that. But its people's lives that is my main concern. And well actually people's liberty for that matter.

You see what do you think would happen if we actually legalize prostitution? What do you think would happen to the status of the women and the men that participate in such an activity? I am not sure if they will become slaves to money anymore then a clerk at a convienience store, but they do become slaves.

You see we are turning people, and their bodies into property. We are not selling our services through what we can provide, or sell, or build, or do for others. We are not selling goods at a clerk store, and Prositution and working at a 7 Eleven are two very differnt things. No we are selling people's bodies and their specific individual bodies into slavery and servitude. In fact we are selling something that is sacred. A process that my Country faught a bloody Civil War for, and outlawed a Century and a half ago. In fact I would go as far as saying that legalizing Prostitution, for anyone who would do that buisness, would turn that person into nothing but meat. You might as well be buying a steak at a butcher's shop or a grocery store.

And how do you think a guy would react if his piece of meat that he rented betrayed him? Did not live up to expectations? Would he beat her? Would he kill her? Would he or she not pay for the services of that meat if they did not perform as expected? Would they ask for their money back? Would this not put the person partaking in such an activity in even greater financial parel? What about STDs?

And also the argument of the people for Prostitution is rather...ironic...to me. Many of the people arguing for Prostitution in this specific argument, all for freedom and to provide a new Good and Service mind you and be very very capitalistic, have made arguments against people owning a means to defend themselves. Are against people being able to buy the health care on their own volition and have to have the Government do it. Same thing with College.

And meanwhile someone here made the argument that the religious book that someone uses for their morality is sexist and evil. A curious position to take given that people could end up being slaves or their body at the least would be slaves to this process. And may of these people will be girls. But even if they were men the whole process of prostitution is just as sexist. IMO. It takes someones body and turns it into a comodity to be brokered.

And I do doubt that the criminal aspect of this will completly go away.

So if we are to make Prostitution legal how do we expect to protect people's Lives? I think liscencing both the people who want to buy this service, and the people who are doing the service, is a....start. And rejnewing this service through medical testing every month, that the prostitute and the buyer of the service would have to pay for, should at least limit the risks posed for STDs. And if you do not renew your liscense and are discovered without one? You get thrown in jail for a minimum of five years and would have to pay a stiff fine in excess of the medical bills.

So yes, at the end of the day, lets legalize prostitution. It is not for me but I am not comfortable forcing my morality on people, especially when I am unsure how to do it under the Prime Directive of Government. I would never do it, my daughter will never do it, my son will never do it. And if they did do it I believe the term 'disowning' would apply.

You see Prostitution is something that is very immoral, and very dangerous. But yet if we are to expected to do anything we must be moral people, as individuals. We cannot expect Government to be moral for us, and we cannot expect them to have our morality at heart. In fact that destroys the point. No we have to be moral people on our own, and we have to make a stand and encourage others to make that stand.

So yes, lets legalize Prostitution.

But I understand the potential Pandora's Box that we are opening if we do. Which is why I will make the individual choice to not participate, and save others from making that choice.

And oh yes about the whole religion thing. We have people who are downright insulting people for making a religious argument, a moral argument, and insulting their ability to use that as a logical point, but meanwhile we are talking about legalizing a profession that risks turning whole groups of people into slaves, and risks their very lives for little good reason. All of this in the name of freedom, liberty, and granting more people power. But yet the insult is made against peole excercising their freedom, and their libert, and their moral code to state an opinion that such an activity is wrong...hmmmmm

[EvilSpaceAlien]

Speaking of prostitution, I actually live in a country where prostitution is both legal and illegal at the same time. You see it's perfectly legal for someone to be a prostitute, however it's completely illegal for you to buy sexual services from anyone.

As for drugs, I support legalization of softer drugs like cannabis and rehabilitation for those who do harder drugs like meth and heroin, instead of imprisonment.

[Col.Foley]

Speaking of prostitution, I actually live in a country where prostitution is both legal and illegal at the same time. You see it's perfectly legal for someone to be a prostitute, however it's completely illegal for you to buy sexual services from anyone.

As for drugs, I support legalization of softer drugs like cannabis and rehabilitation for those who do harder drugs like meth and heroin, instead of imprisonment.

....That makes no sense.

[jmoz]

Nah, I'm against legalization of certain things, including prostitution. (You write too much foley) I see it this way:

If prostitution, drugs, torture are legalized, that would be somewhat equivalent to social acceptance of that thing. An approval by the people since the government would be representative of the people.

And my qualm would be a slippery slope argument. If we accept such things little by little, what happens even more immoral things become more and more socially accepted? Like pedophilia, abuse of children or really in all forms, rape. Those things are very wrong and do we apply the same mentality of institutionalization to those things?

If we start accepting certain things and crossing the line so to speak, where's the line to accepting other things far worse? What's to prevent more lines being crossed?

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

So yes, at the end of the day, lets legalize prostitution. It is not for me but I am not comfortable forcing my morality on people, especially when I am unsure how to do it under the Prime Directive of Government. I would never do it, my daughter will never do it, my son will never do it. And if they did do it I believe the term 'disowning' would apply.

For a libertarian that's not very libertarian is it? When your children are adults who are you to tell them what they can and can't do.

[jmoz]

For a libertarian that's not very libertarian is it? When your children are adults who are you to tell them what they can and can't do.

lmao

[Col.Foley]

Nah, I'm against legalization of certain things, including prostitution. (You write too much foley) I see it this way:

If prostitution, drugs, torture are legalized, that would be somewhat equivalent to social acceptance of that thing. An approval by the people since the government would be representative of the people.

And my qualm would be a slippery slope argument. If we accept such things little by little, what happens even more immoral things become more and more socially accepted? Like pedophilia, abuse of children or really in all forms, rape. Those things are very wrong and do we apply the same mentality of institutionalization to those things?

If we start accepting certain things and crossing the line so to speak, where's the line to accepting other things far worse? What's to prevent more lines being crossed?

You make a good point about the representativeness of our Government actually. The only thing is that 'legalizing' something is not putting a stamp of approval on it. Not the Governments, and not the society at large and certainly not the individual. I certainly do not approve of such an activity even though I see the arguments for wanting to legalize it.

And torture under no circumstances should be 'legal'. Torture actually does physical harm to someones body and life, which should be against the law.

And the slippery slope argument, good luck making it, but I do see it.

[Ukko]

Nah, I'm against legalization of certain things, including prostitution. (You write too much foley) I see it this way:

If prostitution, drugs, torture are legalized, that would be somewhat equivalent to social acceptance of that thing. An approval by the people since the government would be representative of the people.

And my qualm would be a slippery slope argument. If we accept such things little by little, what happens even more immoral things become more and more socially accepted? Like pedophilia, abuse of children or really in all forms, rape. Those things are very wrong and do we apply the same mentality of institutionalization to those things?

If we start accepting certain things and crossing the line so to speak, where's the line to accepting other things far worse? What's to prevent more lines being crossed?

I dont see a slippery slope between consenting adults to child abuse and rape.