The Political Discussion Thread

[mad_gater]

so Obama decided to produce the long form certificate finally....good....and hopefully once its authenticity is verified the matter can be laid to rest

there were very good reasons for this whole thing:

Obama is not above the law. The Constitution explicitly states that only a natural born citizen can hold the Office of POTUS. The documentation provided was insufficient (computer generate short-form certification of live birth that can actually even be given to non-citizens). Obama spent way too much time and money to hide the document that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt (the long-form certificate that only people born in HI have) and which is a matter of public record from the constituents of the Office of POTUS (We the People). That just made him appear more suspicious to the people. The fact of the matter is that if he'd done it in the first place this matter could've been laid to rest 3 years ago.....but apparently our POTUS thought he was too good to show valid proof of his natural born citizenship....whereas us lesser peons have to furnish our birth certificates all the time for various things....like drivers licenses.....and sometimes jobs....I had to furnish a copy to the WNY Independent Living Project where I'll be doing aide work for one of the clients of their consumer driven personal assistant program....mainly to make sure that my family name matched the family name of my parents (or rather in my case my one remaining parent)...and to check it against the famly name of the person I'd be working for....this is so that they can make sure I'm not doing work for a member of my family that I have a direct relationship to...which is against policy

[mad_gater]

FCOL! All we did was ask him to show the document we must show all the time when doing something important. But everyone acts like we were asking him to reveal his bank account PIN numbers or something....

[shipper hannah]

This whole deal with Americans and Obama's birth certificate is absolutely ridiculous. What other presidents have had all this nonsense? In my opinion, it's far-right BS and/or thinly-veiled racism.

People need to get their priorities straight.

[mad_gater]

This whole deal with Americans and Obama's birth certificate is absolutely ridiculous. What other presidents have had all this nonsense? In my opinion, it's far-right BS and/or thinly-veiled racism.

People need to get their priorities straight.

so being asked to produce valid documentation is racist now.....gotcha....

[Rickington]

so being asked to produce valid documentation is racist now.....gotcha....

I say we demand proper documentation for ALL FUTURE PRESIDENTS, regardless of historical records of them... they must be 100% verified

[Naonak]

so being asked to produce valid documentation is racist now.....gotcha....

You know that's not the point.

[mad_gater]

I say we demand proper documentation for ALL FUTURE PRESIDENTS, regardless of historical records of them... they must be 100% verified

exactly...I won't mind providing mine...I certainly won't spend 3 years trying to hide it....

I also question the efficiency of a state government that utilizes 2 separate version of birth certificates....

why the heck do they need both a short form and a long form?....a much simpler one showing the name of the person in question....date born, parents' names, and name of hospital should be good enough and if they need to find out something like the name of the attending physician then they can call the hospital named in the certificate....my Indiana Record of Birth is about a little over 5 inches long and about 7.5 inches wide.....and it at least contains the name of the dept. that regulates the hospital I was born in (St. Joseph County Health Dept.) which suffices for proving I was born in the US (along with my name, the town I was born in, the date I was born, my parents' names, the state my mom and dad were born in, which is PA for both, certificate number, reel number, filing date, signature of county health officer, the town/city and state said officer was located in, and the date it was signed by said officer and the official seal of the St. Joseph County Health Department)....all of that was on a piece of paper roughly 5"-by-8".....it seems to me HI is wasting much paper having 2 different forms of birth certificates...and it seems both forms get printed on paper that's 8.5"-by-11"....normal letter size paper...c'mon HI stop killing so many trees and adopt IN's model.....though of course the format for Indiana's may have changed...mine will be 30 years old come may 30th of this year

[mad_gater]

You know that's not the point.

well it certainly SOUNDS like I'm being called a racist for simply wanting him to prove that he's eligible to hold the office under the Constitution

[Col.Foley]

I thought this was a political discussion thread and not a religion discussion thread? ...

Religion and politics is often, and unfortanatley, closely intertwined with one another.

so Obama decided to produce the long form certificate finally....good....and hopefully once its authenticity is verified the matter can be laid to rest

there were very good reasons for this whole thing:

Obama is not above the law. The Constitution explicitly states that only a natural born citizen can hold the Office of POTUS. The documentation provided was insufficient (computer generate short-form certification of live birth that can actually even be given to non-citizens). Obama spent way too much time and money to hide the document that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt (the long-form certificate that only people born in HI have) and which is a matter of public record from the constituents of the Office of POTUS (We the People). That just made him appear more suspicious to the people. The fact of the matter is that if he'd done it in the first place this matter could've been laid to rest 3 years ago.....but apparently our POTUS thought he was too good to show valid proof of his natural born citizenship....whereas us lesser peons have to furnish our birth certificates all the time for various things....like drivers licenses.....and sometimes jobs....I had to furnish a copy to the WNY Independent Living Project where I'll be doing aide work for one of the clients of their consumer driven personal assistant program....mainly to make sure that my family name matched the family name of my parents (or rather in my case my one remaining parent)...and to check it against the famly name of the person I'd be working for....this is so that they can make sure I'm not doing work for a member of my family that I have a direct relationship to...which is against policy

This issue pretty much was laid to rest three years ago....

I suppose though it had to happen eventually.

I am sorry though this makes no sense. Obama had quite a political bargaining chip with his birth certificate as he was able to convince the country that his opponents were nothing but a bunch of.....well collectovists. Or at least rile up his base so much that to convince them and smear an entire group of people. He was quite eager, always was, to discuss the birth certificate issue. Him and his families and his allies have not hid from it, him and his family and his allies went out of their way to mention it, to joke about, to not hide it under the table but to milk it for all of its worth. Which I guess this could be the reason because someone in the administration probably determined that the utter has been used for all it worth....but then he looses the advantage...

This whole deal with Americans and Obama's birth certificate is absolutely ridiculous. What other presidents have had all this nonsense? In my opinion, it's far-right BS and/or thinly-veiled racism.

People need to get their priorities straight.

This advantage in fact.

You see birtherism is pretty ridiculous, I am not birther. But it seems to me that the birther argument has turned into something a hell of a lot more reasonable then the critics have started to use it for.

Anyone who dares to question, who dares to have the slightest amount of doubt is called a rascist, the only reason that anyone could have any doubt about where Obama was born is because of race. Now I believe he was born in Hawaii, the evidence points to the fact quite extensively, but there is also some evidence and some lack of action from the President that points to the opposite.

But I guess we cannot question the President because he is black. Where is Obama's birth certificate? RASCIST!....uh no I am just curious...oh but you hate Obama! No I am just curious.

So I guess we cannot question whatever political minority and 'in' group without risks of being smeared instead of sitting down and having a reasonable debate. The perception here is that, certainly, that the birther argument you are simply against Obama. And the issue is pretty much that in the long run. The Birther argument is not a real policy statement and is something that is specfically anti Obama, us against them. It does not lead to anyone being unlightened about a policy position, it does not help to articulate principles, its just there.

And Obama has milked it for all its worth almost as if he wanted it to be an issue in the first place hmmm.

And of course also anyone who is anti birther also uses the argument, the false argument, that no other President had to prove his residency. Its just Obama, the bunch of rascist. One this is factually inaccurate and two even if it was then it should be addressed and its an over sight that needs to be corrected and fixed in the future to avoid this issue.

As for priorities. You seem to make the assumption that birthers are so dumb that they cannot multi task. That the whole conspiracy occupies birthers every waking hour and thought and keps them up at night clutching the blankets. That they can barely function in life, or infact not function at all. That they cannot even articulate other principles and are very much aware of us having to fight Obama's policies and articulate out own principles.

And all this forgets that it was Clinton, Berg, and the Democrats who started the birther issue in the first place. Must be a bunch of rascists too huh?

I say we demand proper documentation for ALL FUTURE PRESIDENTS, regardless of historical records of them... they must be 100% verified

Hey I am all for that.

You know that's not the point.

*reads Hannah's point* so you are going to tell him what he knows?

[Rickington]

Religion and politics is often, and unfortanatley, closely intertwined with one another.

As I said, topics that intertwine the two are fine, but topics that are purely religious aren't.

[s09119]

I love how now that the certificates out, we have the "we need to see his college transcripts too" or "well we need experts to go over it to make sure it's real." Both of which were suggested in early Fox News articles on the subject.

Also amusing; how conservatives now scream "CALLING OBAMA BAD = RACIST?! STUPID LIBERALS" when no one has really gone after any major conservatives for racially motivated anti-Obama comments in some time. The GOP just wants to keep the race card in play to fire up angry conservatives and, yes, actual racists.

[Col.Foley]

I love how now that the certificates out, we have the "we need to see his college transcripts too" or "well we need experts to go over it to make sure it's real." Both of which were suggested in early Fox News articles on the subject.

Also amusing; how conservatives now scream "CALLING OBAMA BAD = RACIST?! STUPID LIBERALS" when no one has really gone after any major conservatives for racially motivated anti-Obama comments in some time. The GOP just wants to keep the race card in play to fire up angry conservatives and, yes, actual racists.

Well yes of course we need to make sure its real....duh.

Because no 'Major Conservative, is doing anything of the kind. Anything that you mentioned has no basis in reality.

[s09119]

Well yes of course we need to make sure its real....duh.

Because no 'Major Conservative, is doing anything of the kind. Anything that you mentioned has no basis in reality.

...so you want Bush and Clinton to pull out theirs for the Tea Party to go over with a fine toothed comb? And he provided what the State of Hawaii always provides for birth certificates over two years ago now. That was legally all that he needed.

And because you refuse to deal with the substance of what I'm saying and instead harp on a piece of phrasing, nothing you mentioned really contributes.

[Col.Foley]

...so you want Bush and Clinton to pull out theirs for the Tea Party to go over with a fine toothed comb? And he provided what the State of Hawaii always provides for birth certificates over two years ago now. That was legally all that he needed.

And because you refuse to deal with the substance of what I'm saying and instead harp on a piece of phrasing, nothing you mentioned really contributes.

Uh yes, I know that he did this three years ago. Don't throw me in with the birthers please. Huh?

Do not use stupid statements and I won't call you out on it.

I am sure you can find some example of some Conservative being an idiot or a rascist in some event but the fact is that I have never heard one single 'Major Conservative' Do anything that you mention and they are not using the race card and none of their statements has anything to do with race. IN fact many 'Major Conservative' have gone out of their way to try and defeat the birther argument and move onto the real buisness of the country.

Oh now I get what you are saying. No I do not want Bush and Clinton to pull out theirs right now: They are no longer President. It would be kind of ridiculous to do so after the fact. esecially since I am sure that they did at the beginning of the day in the first place. Its kind of like asking Obama to provide for his long form years into his Presidency when there is sufficient proof he was born here.

[s09119]

Pretty much every GOP candidate for President and top Congressional leaders have openly or subtly stoked the birther fire. From Donald Trump actually coming out and jumping in bed with them to Speaker Boehner saying that he merely takes Obama at his word that he's telling the truth. Refusing to condemn the birthers by pretty much every top Republican (short of Karl Rove) is just as bad as being one.