The Political Discussion Thread

[jmoz]

because He gave it to us otherwise Adam and Eve wouldn't've been able to eat the forbidden fruit in the first place...He doesn't force you to worship and love Him...yes He could've made everyone dance to His tune but instead He gave us freedom because He loves us so much

So if he gave you the capability to act outside of his power, doesn't that debunk his omnipotence quality?

[mad_gater]

So if he gave you the capability to act outside of his power, doesn't that debunk his omnipotence quality?

no.....why would it? just because He gave us freedom doesn't mean He doesn't know everything which is what omnipotent means...it just means He gave us the freedom to make our own choices about Him and his teachings....just because He's not gonna force you doesn't mean He isn't all-knowing and all-powerful

[mad_gater]

can't have money without the government's establishment of a formal medium of currency, their backing and production of it, and the recognition of that currency from other governments.

right but government does not have the authority to tell its citizenry how to spend it....we're more than capable of helping people with it on our own power

[jmoz]

no.....why would it? just because He gave us freedom doesn't mean He doesn't know everything which is what omnipotent means...it just means He gave us the freedom to make our own choices about Him and his teachings....just because He's not gonna force you doesn't mean He isn't all-knowing and all-powerful

Think omnipotence includes omniscience. If he knows all, he knows your past, present, and future. If he knows that, isn't the future of all mankind determined? And all we're doing it is following a path. I mean, why have that apple thing if you know they are going to eat it then act all hurt and angry after adam and eve had a bite? Why create something that you know the future of?

right but government does not have the authority to tell its citizenry how to spend it....we're more than capable of helping people with it on our own power

People don't help other people, you're idealizing people's good will.

[mad_gater]

Think omnipotence includes omniscience. If he knows all, he knows your past, present, and future. If he knows that, isn't the future of all mankind determined? And all we're doing it is following a path. I mean, why have that apple thing if you know they are going to eat it then act all hurt and angry after adam and eve had a bite? Why create something that you know the future of?


People don't help other people, you're idealizing people's good will.

because for love to be true it cannot be forced.....if He forced us to follow Him He'd be no different from those who manipulate others for their own amusement....you know that whole "if you love someone let them go" thing? and how could we be following a path? it's plainly obvious people do their own thing almost every day...some of them aren't exactly legal either....so it's highly unlikely that anybody's path is pre-ordained

as for your second assertion.....how did organizations like Catholic Charities get to be as big as they are then? money don't grow on trees ya know....it had to have been given to them then...by people of good will....and I see plenty of examples of people helping others out of the goodness of their hearts in time of trouble

[lordofseas]

Think omnipotence includes omniscience. If he knows all, he knows your past, present, and future. If he knows that, isn't the future of all mankind determined? And all we're doing it is following a path. I mean, why have that apple thing if you know they are going to eat it then act all hurt and angry after adam and eve had a bite? Why create something that you know the future of?


People don't help other people, you're idealizing people's good will.

Omnipotence basically means all powerful. Not all knowing.

[mad_gater]

Omnipotence basically means all powerful. Not all knowing.

right....omniscient means all-knowing....sometimes I get the 2 definitions mixed up.....

[Giantevilhead]

Omnipotence basically means all powerful. Not all knowing.

Omnipotence does mean all powerful but you can't be all powerful if you do not have the power of omniscience.

[mad_gater]

yes but proper terminology must be used else we might get yelled at again....

[SoulReaver]

'tis true 'fascist' tends to be used abusively as a blanket term, so I avoid it whenever possible

Spoiler:

I use 'nazi' instead

[Naonak]

Would you complain if someone used the term Islamic Radical? that seems to be a good counter to that. And the other counter to that if you want someone to use the term Radical then really what is wrong with Fascist? Isn't Fascism a radical and unpleasent ideology? Is it not just a matter of semantics?

No. "Radical" and "fascist" are not even close to synonyms.

So would Bin Laden be an Islamo-facist?

Yes he is.

Eh, no. Fascism being ultra-nationalist, and Osama/al-Qaeda being anti-nationalist if anything.

As for weding the two together. It is desgined to be a very specific and very precise term.

Not that specific. It's used for all kinds of groups, with different ideologies and goals, that don't even necessarily like each other.

None of these ideologies resemble any prior understanding of fascism. "Islamic extremist" or "radical" works perfectly well to describe these groups. Inaccurately throwing fascism in there serves no purpose other than propaganda.

[s09119]

not once do you see Jesus going to the government and telling them to force charity through taxation....would be a violation of free will....it's my money and I'll do as I please with it....not as the government pleases.....I do use it to help people when I can bbut that's me....everyone's different...charity is an act of freely given love....such acts by their nature cannot be legislated as law

what's so hard to understand about the concept of being free to manage our own monetary affairs as we see fit? I'm more than capable of spending my money on my own....don't need government to do it for me beyond what's necessary to facilitate commerce and provide for public safety and defense....charity is up to the individual....if it's forced through government it's not charity it's robbery

Actually, that's probably exactly what Jesus would do today. He taught that the rich should give up all their belongings and riches to the poor, remember? The poor, downtrodden, and meek were the ones who were truly chosen by God; it was the rich and powerful that were the problem in the world.

[mad_gater]

Actually, that's probably exactly what Jesus would do today. He taught that the rich should give up all their belongings and riches to the poor, remember? The poor, downtrodden, and meek were the ones who were truly chosen by God; it was the rich and powerful that were the problem in the world.

what He had a problem with was those who didn't come by their wealth honestly....everyone in this country or most everyone anyway went to college and worked hard to get where they are today....the wealthy in jesus' time stole it.....most of the people in this country earn it....there's a big difference

and He was also likely speaking in hyperbole.....if they gave up everything then how would they take care of their own needs...rich people have to eat and drink and go to the doctor too

and Jesus never took one red cent of Roman taxpayer money....every bit of help was from money freely given to His ministry or from His own hands

[mad_gater]

not to mention the operative word in that teaching is SHOULD.....meaning he was suggesting.....if He was fighting for collectivism He would said "rich people are OBLIGATED to give everything they have to the poor and if they won't do it freely it should be forced from them"

[s09119]

When your Lord and Savior says you "should" do something, I think it's pretty close to "obligated" if you don't want to go to Hell. Just saying.

Also: many would argue that the rich today steal their wealth, and how, pray tell, do you know that Jesus was being hyperbolic?