The Political Discussion Thread

[The Flyattractor]

We just need to scrap the whole Police System and replace it with the Judge System like in the Judge Dredd magazine.

[SoulReaver]

lol...everyone will wanna become a Judge (what with all the privileges)

[Annoyed]

nb. in civilized countries the law states that defence must be proportionate to attack (this also applies to the SS not just civilians). that means shooting the attacker only if the attacker either has a gun, or has a knife/other deadly melee weapon at close range


here the guy must've "attacked" the copper verbally - or maybe with his fists, at any rate he was unarmed but all the same the copper "defended" himself the only way those of his ilk know, with his gun (knowing he was protected by the law, it's easy to be brave when you're both armed and above the law isn't it)

there's also the small detail about the victim being in his own home; but to hell with the castle doctrine, whether at home or not it appears a serf citizen's life only belongs to the government


but I agree colour has nothing to do with this, it's more a question of caste

Oh, I am well aware that the police and other law enforcement agencies (as well as other aspects of govt. in general) overstep their legal authority all too often. I'm really disappointed that the population as a whole is responding to this with an emphatic "Yawn".

But the "live scene" with police is neither the time and place to resolve those issues. That time is later, in the courts.
The only thing attacking a police officer gets you is a heap of trouble, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, it gets you dead.
This is not the fault of the police, it is the result of a stupid decision on the part of the person attacking a police officer.

[SoulReaver]

yeah man it ain't the copper's fault if he responded to an unarmed attack, with his gun
I mean what else could he do? :/

Oh, I am well aware that the police and other law enforcement agencies (as well as other aspects of govt. in general) overstep their legal authority all too often. I'm really disappointed that the population as a whole is responding to this with an emphatic "Yawn".

But the "live scene" with police is neither the time and place to resolve those issues. That time is later, in the courts.
The only thing attacking a police officer gets you is a heap of trouble, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, it gets you dead.
This is not the fault of the police, it is the result of a stupid decision on the part of the person attacking a police officer.

in the absence of separation of powers, responding to this via the courts is as useful as a yawn


btw the only testimony for this alleged attack is from the copper himself
(the other witness would've been the victim who's conveniently dead)


so ultimately the only stupid decision on the part of the victim is that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time: he should never have been at home. hopefully this will teach other citizens a valuable lesson!

[Annoyed]

yeah man it ain't the copper's fault if he responded to an unarmed attack, with his gun
I mean what else could he do? :/

in the absence of separation of powers, responding to this via the courts is as useful as a yawn

So citizens are supposed to sacrifice themselves to make a point? Or do you expect police to stop defending themselves?

[SoulReaver]

So citizens are supposed to sacrifice themselves to make a point?

let's see - no resistance, no revolution either - come to think of it maybe there is another way: they can yawn louder

Or do you expect police to stop defending themselves?

of course not, any Patriot™ knows only citizens should be deprived of right to self defence

in fact the SS should retain the right to use armed lethal force especially when breaking into an unarmed citizen's home & finding themselves in the face of mortal danger from the occupant's verbal abuse (or fists) - after all coppers represent the State, and the State is always right

(God bless america, 9/11 never forget, terrorists etc.)

[Coco Pops]

What about that raid in Volusia USA where the cops used a whole SWAT team just to issue a warrant and in the process a young unarmed man got shot in the face.... In the face.

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news..._volusia_.html

[Annoyed]

I'm not saying that various police-like agencies always follow the rules. They don't. Many of them are completely out of control in many ways. This needs to be challenged at every opportunity.

But the proper way to challenge them is NOT by attacking the police officers at the "live scene". That will only get you shot. If you feel like your rights are being ignored, comply with the officer's orders, and then politely object to whatever you feel the violation is. Or wait till it goes to court, and fight the battle there.

Enter the fight with your head and your words, not with your fists and weapons.

Police have a tough job; they have to walk into situations where angels would quite properly fear to tread. We cannot hamstring their ability to defend themselves against attack or very quickly, we wouldn't have anyone willing to do the job, and where would we be then?

[Falcon Horus]

It's fascinating that our local force has no issues at not shooting at the first sign of trouble.

You make it sound like that's the only action they should take - the ever so favorite "shoot first, ask questions later"-mantra.

[jelgate]

I miss the old fashioned pepper spray grenades. Those were the days

[Falcon Horus]

I miss the old fashioned pepper spray grenades. Those were the days

Yes! Those were the days...

[SoulReaver]

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news..._volusia_.html

"was placed on paid administrative leave"

that's one lucky SOB

But the proper way to challenge them is NOT by attacking the police officers at the "live scene". That will only get you shot

bleh, complying can also result in the same thing as the article above shows

although admittedly it's better to wear a bullet-proof vest (at the rate things are going, in a not too distant future all civies may have to wear these. lol)

Police have a tough job

so tough in fact that's it's one of the most (if not the most) sought after jobs in the US eh?

if they can shoot first regardless if target's armed or not without having to worry about the law then this kinda takes away the 'tough' factor

not to mention the colossal pay (at state & federal level anyway) and quality health insurance (while most yanks can barely afford basic care)

and that's leaving aside the lifetime job guarantee (even after a deadly mistake they don't get fired like other workers would at the slightest fault, but instead get rewarded with vacation paid administrative leave)

btw reality check: their job's not to protect you



on the other hand living as a lowly citizen in the US, now that's tough & takes a lot of bravery. lol



the only things that sort of restores balance are the "blue on blue" accidents - when a copper mistakenly shoots an undercover comrade for instance - thank god for these cause this forces them to be at least somewhat careful whom they're shooting (they may not care about citizens but they don't like shooting their own) so as a result more potential civilian victims are avoided

We cannot hamstring their ability to defend themselves against attack or very quickly, we wouldn't have anyone willing to do the job, and where would we be then?

that's odd cause democracies where law states defence must be proportionate to attack, have no problem recruiting either

[SoulReaver]

It's fascinating that our local force has no issues at not shooting at the first sign of trouble.

You make it sound like that's the only action they should take - the ever so favorite "shoot first, ask questions later"-mantra.

in a way it's understandable - shooting as a default response is the quickest & easiest way to respond to any threat so if they don't have to worry about legal consequences then why abstain

[Brother Freyr]

You & your partner are both armed with a club, pepper spray, tazer, and handgun. You arrive at a scene where you encounter a distraught, angry, and/or mentally disturbed man wielding a large knife. You tell him to drop the knife. He doesn't. Do you:

a) render him sightless with pepper spray
b) immobilize him with a Tazer
c) kill him with your handgun

[jelgate]

d) Run away. Its not my problem