if I am reading you right....No...HELL NO!
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Originally posted by Falcon Horus View PostIt seems I mixed up the Torah and the Talmud, my mistake.
{Originally Posted by SGalisa--}
quote--
"As for the Koran, I don't know..."
Originally posted by Falcon Horus View PostMaybe you should give it a try.
Do they stock these in the local libraries? I think I went looking for it once, couldn't find it though.
Arabic lettering or words shown in symbols or written out is a foreign language.. looks like lovely fluent lines in artwork (and my scholastic education focused on art--landscapes, portraits, creative stylized lettering), which to someone who doesn't know the language and doesn't have time (or interest) to study it -- makes no more sense than looking at the artistic symbols of Chinese and Hebrew lettering, but sees them as obviously styled differently. No brainer there..
Originally posted by Falcon Horus View PostWikipedia? Seriously... you pick the source that is likely to be reliable. There's a good reason kids over here can't use Wikipedia for their school assignments.
Actually, wikipedia is very close to what I've read in those news articles and on various other discussion (forum/blog) sights regarding about this particular 12th Imam prophecy.
{Originally Posted by SGalisa--}
"What I have heard is that there is a sect in Iran, and probably thruout the Islamic world, who believe in the coming of the 12th Imam."
Originally posted by Falcon Horus View PostA sect... like a brotherhood... like the Templars? Or the Hospitallers? Or the Illuminati (are they real or fiction?)? Or the masons?
There have been brotherhoods/sects throughtout history. Hey, at some point in time even christianity was considered a sect.
Anyway, one of the articles about former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's involvement in the 12th Imam belief noted him as being part of "sect". That is how what one of his bosses (someone higher than Ahmadinejad was/is) described Ahmadinejad as (a believer belonging along with the rest of the group sect/section of believers). So, I cannot answer your "brotherhood" question as to what that particular group is other than what I just wrote.
Just for the record, here are a few places other than wikipedia to look into. Note, none of these are from FoxNews or Christian (news) sites, so all info is coming from the rest of the (generic) secular worldview.
Spoiler:(due to bandwidth and advertising issues--links below are broken.
Please remove B L A N K spaces in beginning of web address to access article/link for complete details)
http : // www .nytimes. com/2007/08/30/world/middleeast/30imam.html?_r=0
Middle East -- Qum Journal (Qum, Iran)
"For Iran’s Shiites, a Celebration of Faith and Waiting"
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
Published: August 30, 2007
http : // www .telegraph. co .uk/comment/3642984/Will-the-12th-Imam-cause-war-with-Iran.html
"Will the 12th Imam cause war with Iran?"
By Con Coughlin
12:01AM BST 28 Sep 2007 (The Telegraph)
http : // www .frontpagemag. com/2013/robert-spencer/now-the-twelfth-imam-can-come/
"Now the Twelfth Imam Can Come"
November 26, 2013, by Robert Spencer
http : // www .theblaze. com/stories/2011/02/17/beck-who-is-the-12th-imam/
(Glenn) Beck: "Who Is the Twelfth Imam?"
Feb. 17, 2011 7:54pm (contains video and reader comments)
So, yes, I've done some follow-up homework on this subject, but not as in-depth as the above and dozens of other articles are on this subject. I usually only pay more attention to these topics when they show up in the news and then tend to forget about them with my less than 2-second memory. If the news is NOT something I *need* to remember, I usually don't remember all of the more important bits and pieces.
(when I get a few moments, and only a few moments, I've regularly been reading some topics at the following)
As for other (world-wide) info (on all sorts of varieties of subjects/topics), city-data forums is one of the more popular discussion sites, which has had some info from the Muslim communities about various insights into what they actually believe (etc.). This is very informative and helpful for English speaking readers; and most of the time, the more knowledgeable Muslims have been more than helpful to anyone seeking to learn more about the Koran and Muslim beliefs, etc. However, one must be careful at figuring out who the regular posters are in there, who are authentic. I've been following that site for several years now, so I have a fairly good idea which posters are more reliable than others. Doing a cross-read of some sources also helps reinforce recognizing what is truth and what is just tossed in.
As for going directly to various Middle East web sites with certain reputations (or if not sure who owns those sites), that is sort of forbidden in my family. We've received enough Nigerian and other Middle Eastern scam mails to fill an encyclopedia. Had enough bad experiences on another web site, so lesson(s) learned and advice to avoid heeded.
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Originally posted by SGalisa View PostAbout the Koran. If the Islamic community takes over the entire world, then it might become a requirement for everyone to read the Koran -- hopefully in one's own language.
How it has killed infidels, or pagans who refused to convert.
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostAnd yes, I know there is an English translation out there, but I've heard it is not accurate in some of its passages (as commented in some forums/blogs by Muslim readers of the Koran).
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostArabic lettering or words shown in symbols or written out is a foreign language.. looks like lovely fluent lines in artwork (and my scholastic education focused on art--landscapes, portraits, creative stylized lettering), which to someone who doesn't know the language and doesn't have time (or interest) to study it -- makes no more sense than looking at the artistic symbols of Chinese and Hebrew lettering, but sees them as obviously styled differently. No brainer there..
Anyway moving on...
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostWould you rather I send you to some news articles instead (some require subscriptions)..?
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostActually, wikipedia is very close to what I've read in those news articles and on various other discussion (forum/blog) sights regarding about this particular 12th Imam prophecy.
For anyone interesting to listen to this audiobook:
Spoiler:Summary:
Tensions are rising in the Middle East. Iran’s president vows to annihilate the United States and Israel. Israel’s prime minister says someone must hit Iran’s nuclear sites “before it’s too late.” The American president warns against a preemptive strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities and says negotiations are the key to finding peace. And amid it all, rumors are swirling throughout the region of a mysterious religious cleric claiming to be the Islamic messiah known as the Mahdi or the Twelfth Imam. Word of his miracles, healings, signs, and wonders is spreading like wildfire. CIA operative David Shirazi was born for this moment. He is recruited and sent into Tehran with one objective: use all means necessary to disrupt Iran’s nuclear weapons program, without leaving American fingerprints and without triggering an apocalyptic new war. But time is running out.
Originally posted by SGalisa View Post"What I have heard is that there is a sect in Iran, and probably thruout the Islamic world, who believe in the coming of the 12th Imam."
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostAnyway, one of the articles about former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's involvement in the 12th Imam belief noted him as being part of "sect". That is how what one of his bosses (someone higher than Ahmadinejad was/is) described Ahmadinejad as (a believer belonging along with the rest of the group sect/section of believers). So, I cannot answer your "brotherhood" question as to what that particular group is other than what I just wrote.
Originally posted by SGalisa View Post"For Iran’s Shiites, a Celebration of Faith and Waiting" By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
Published: August 30, 2007 - The New York Times
What you and I take away is obviously not the same thing. I read an article just now about Iranians celebrating the birth of Imam Mahdi, the savior of the Shiite faith, and how it's a national holiday. Sure there's mention of an exhibition where the people of Qum (city mentioned in the article) are being warned about evildoers, like the Jews and the Christians (in this case America which so happens to be the biggest pain in Ahmadinejad's butt - but the same could probably be said for the rest of the world about Ahmadinejad).
If this had been an article about Americans celebrating the birth of Jesus, you wouldn't even have blinked.
Originally posted by SGalisa View Post"Will the 12th Imam cause war with Iran?" By Con Coughlin
Published:28 Sep 2007 - The Telegraph
Yes, Iran has an extensive nuclear program and is a country with little relations to others. It's a bit of a mystery what goes around there, except from what we see in the news, and that sadly is always politically centered, or religiously. They have no separation of church and state in place.
That middle-eastern area around Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, ... -- we all know that's a powder keg, and it needs to be treated with care.
2007 was 7 years ago, and we're still here...
As I read the article I came across this little gem:
The Hidden Imam, as he is also known by his followers, will only return after a period of cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed – what Christians call the Apocalypse – and then lead the world into an era of universal peace.
4 reasons the Christian right longs for the apocalypse by Amanda Marcotte, Alternet
Apocalypse as explained in the Jewish Encylopedia
Frontpagemag.com might not be a good source in the future
However, the author of the article you mention -- Robert Spencer -- does seem to have a decent knowledge on the matter. I'll give him that.
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostGlenn Beck: "Who Is the Twelfth Imam?"
Feb. 17, 2011 7:54pm (contains video and reader comments)
According to your source here - I doubt that's the case ... or it was in 2011:
Rumors of War examines the current leadership of Iran, Ahmadenjiad, Khameini, who are part of a radical Muslim sect that believe it is their duty to hasten the return of the 12th Imam, a Jesus-like figure who will wipe the planet clean of Iran’s enemies, of which Israel and the United States rank 1 and 1a. They believe, and have stated publically that by initiating worldwide chaos they can bring about his return.
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostHowever, one must be careful at figuring out who the regular posters are in there, who are authentic.
For all you know, I could be an extremist, leading you into goddess knows what...
There's always a suspicion about who's on the other side.
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostI've been following that site for several years now, so I have a fairly good idea which posters are more reliable than others. Doing a cross-read of some sources also helps reinforce recognizing what is truth and what is just tossed in.
Originally posted by SGalisa View PostAs for going directly to various Middle East web sites with certain reputations (or if not sure who owns those sites), that is sort of forbidden in my family.
Okay, I wouldn't surf to the websites owned by the Taliban -- that would probably not score you good points with the NSA, FBI, CIA.... you know...
But how about Al-Jazeera in English. Or Al-Islam.org in English.Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Originally posted by pookey View PostI thought i was on the religious thread, have we strayed OT a tad Guess we are in the Catrix
Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Originally posted by pookey View PostThats, thats not right And you not in Iran
*checks the LGBT-rights in Iran (or lack thereof)*
Yup, I'd be a dead woman.Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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you can hide in those black things that the women wear, like black portable letterboxes
Theres been a lot of news about same sex marriages
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...e-sex-marriagesigpic
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That's also OT, I think.
Wait, I need to find something political to steer this back on the right track...
Politics @ CNN -- Pick your topic!Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Who needs politics anyway?Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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But without politicians there would be no politics to talk about.Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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