The Political Discussion Thread

[SGalisa]

Lots have, they go to Canada
You know, those commies to the north of you
...
Geez dear, don't ever ask for a scientific breakdown of what you eat or drink, cause your head will blow up!!
Had any penicillin lately? ITS MOULD!!!! AAAAAGGGHHHH!!!!

I've been trying herbal and veggie remedies lately, which have been working to some degrees. The doctors are trying NOT to give out antibiotics, unless they absolutely have no other best option (like sinusitis and worse). Try not breathing the air in the bathrooms shared by other (stomach intestinally sick) folks. Of course, that only works just so far, as well.

It used to be that Canadians were coming down to the USA for treatments, not vice-versa.

Besides, up to ten years ago, my *former* doctors' office was a (pre)model for the Affordable Health Care plan that the USA gov't has been trying to pass Nationwide. When my original doctor retired, the new ones came in and they were really good. Handful of staff and they rotated regionally with several other offices elsewhere in the County. Eventually, they grew because they were really good with their treatments and experienced staff.

But something broke down the line---when the walk-in without-an-appointment clinics started closing down,
this particular med office became so popular that they began overbooking to compensate the incoming crowds (along with new patients) and scheduling. Eventually, my replacement doctor stopped giving me 15 minute *quality* visits and went off on some lack of compassion streak with a 2 minute in/out quick fixes. I think the conversations I had with the nurses (while taking my temp and blood pressure readings) was longer than with the actual doctor, and I had to repeat *everything* all over again to him that I just told to the nurse.. ummm, why bother doing that if the doctor is going to ask from scratch all over again? Seems kinda redundant if he isn't reading the nurses notes to begin with, and rewriting the same stuff all over again.

Also, care treatments were beginning to be based on basic (quick), intermediate (medium), or extensive care offered during the medical visit. That code was then passed onto the insurance company (provider) to pay the off-set co-pay that the patient did not pay. Now, I understand that a basic visit is over $100 for a
2-minute chat with the doctor..! Multiply that times 3 (overbooking) and how much money is being made for one hour in that office? That is NOT including the 90 minute wait in the waiting room, even if you had a pre-scheduled appointment. Appointments no longer count. Every patient is seen by the order they come in thru the office door. Then, once you get walked into a room with the nurse, you end up waiting another 45-minutes before the doctor comes in to see you for his 2-minute *interview*..

Yeah, that's life in the fast lane, medical world out here. It was that way in the walk-in clinics, and now it has rolled itself over to many standard, public medical offices.


Also, those folks in the (middle and *lower* middle hovering above "poverty" income classification) working classes already pay out in taxes, care money that our gov't pools and redirects into the welfare system. The only difference between now and the new *Obamacare* is having more of our money taxed out to more welfare folks, which eventually there won't be enough *healthy* working class folks out there. Reports are coming in that people receiving free or supportive care outnumber those being taxed more to help the less fortunate. I have a friend with a worse problem than mine, and is section 8 (getting welfare assistance).. She likes the system, because to her it's free by filling out the forms and signing your life away (she also volunteers to be an experimental lab critter)..! She claims I could do what she does (sign up for free care programs), but then she wouldn't be getting some of my tax money to pay her bills.. she forgets about that part. Her and millions of others in the same system.

For sure, the water MUST be heated to around 32c (89.6F) so it works on your muscles as well. Just jumping into any old pool will NOT help you, in fact it WILL hurt you if it is "cold".
...
What you do have however is a PLAN. 1/2 hour walking in correct temp water and you can truly help yourself or others. Not that pricey is it?

$15 USA dollars per day/visit at the local YMCA for a heated pool use, as of this year. I won't swim in the freezing lakes (too COLD!). Jeeze. Had enough of those *icy* moments during my childhood teenage years. Sign up for a year at the Y, and that depends on one's schedule on how often the annual price outweighs the times spent there. I used to belong to a sports gym that had a heated pool access elsewhere, but the heater broke the last year I was there, and it was difficult doing aerobics therapy in a nearby jacuzzi at the same heated temps.

Why are you expecting a "cure" when you ADMIT yourself that there is NO CURE??
There is no cure for physical age or deterioration, there is management only.

I'm NOT expecting a cure. I wrote what I said in case there is someone else reading this who is suffering from a similar condition (or knows someone who is), and yet is being wrongly advised that there are miracle cures out there that the medical field *experts* are exploring and making great strides with. Yeah, I know of one for knee joint relief, but won't post it here. I think it also falls under a temporary fix, not a permanent cure-all, too. In the meantime, don't be disallusioned. I thought my last bout had turned utterly hopeless (which I explained in the tracking Earth's Future topic), but the right answer came along and did an amazing turn-around in my ability to function again, and that includes being able to breathe 24-7 without being in utter agony.

It was also something my new doctor had not explored as an option, because she was looking into machinery therapies and medicines as potential helps, which most I have already tried before, so these were branching into continuous LONG-term care treatments (which cost lots of money and time!).. and my condition had deteriorated to the next level of considering surgery, if necessary (because more T-spine discs had deteriorated, slipped, and sent the spine spiraling out of greater alignment). She and I were trying the other options first before resorting to the surgery route.

Maybe I should mention that I also have scoliosis (in my lower spine) which has been treated, but is getting progressively worse (over 30 degree curvature) because it has now reached my mid-spinal zone. Eventually, the spinal cartilages or whatever might separate from the rib cage connectors and that is where the next level of pain management is occurring..! One person on a med forum already had that happen and the pains described match what I'm going thru.. Ohhh, thanks NOT!

Sometimes I've wondered if *guaranteed* medical visits of these more permanent natures should be termed as -- how many different ways can the doctors *torture* their patients, before genuine relief occurs..?

[Galileo]

It often surprises me just how many people in the world are prepared to deny or restrict medical care for other human beings.

I have a feeling our country is about to be taken over by the right wing next week, and I'm really not happy about it. I'm a social democrat, and I find the conservative arguments that taking public provided systems away encourages people to get jobs absurd. There just aren't enough jobs to go around, for a start.
not to mention that the likely winner is both sexist and racist, given some of the comments he has made about immigrants and women.

Punishing people for their financial status within society is no way forward.

[jmoz]

It often surprises me just how many people in the world are prepared to deny or restrict medical care for other human beings.

I have a feeling our country is about to be taken over by the right wing next week, and I'm really not happy about it. I'm a social democrat, and I find the conservative arguments that taking public provided systems away encourages people to get jobs absurd. There just aren't enough jobs to go around, for a start.
not to mention that the likely winner is both sexist and racist, given some of the comments he has made about immigrants and women.

Punishing people for their financial status within society is no way forward.

But that's the American way, what are you a member of Al-Qaeda? (joking but not really joking about the first part, in case the post came off as serious)

[Galileo]

But that's the American way, what are you a member of Al-Qaeda? (joking but not really joking about the first part, in case the post came off as serious)

I'm an Australian, and part of the 'Australian way' if you could call it such a thing, is the idea of the 'fair go', which doesn't involve persecuting people who don't happen to earn as much as the next man.

maybe the 'American way' has some flaws that need addressing.

It isn't enough to provide people with individual freedoms if he only has the freedom to obtain a certain low status of life due to lack of education or support. People don't ask to be born into poor families.

[mad_gater]

I'm an Australian, and part of the 'Australian way' if you could call it such a thing, is the idea of the 'fair go', which doesn't involve persecuting people who don't happen to earn as much as the next man.

maybe the 'American way' has some flaws that need addressing.

It isn't enough to provide people with individual freedoms if he only has the freedom to obtain a certain low status of life due to lack of education or support. People don't ask to be born into poor families.

perhaps what is being spoken of is the widespread ABUSE of a system designed to be only a safety net for hard-working people who are down on their luck by people who want the system to be a lifetime hammock so that they don't have to work a day in their lives and can spend their lives being lazy

[Galileo]

perhaps what is being spoken of is the widespread ABUSE of a system designed to be only a safety net for hard-working people who are down on their luck by people who want the system to be a lifetime hammock so that they don't have to work a day in their lives and can spend their lives being lazy

People talk a lot about those sorts of people in this country too, but statistically, and a lot of research has been done on the subject, there are actually not many people who do that. Most people in the system would actually rather work, because they get more money for doing so, which means more pleasure, which they generally regard as better than just getting by.
I'm on a disability benefit, but I'd rather be out there earning my living so I can do the things I love more often without having to think too hard about financial concerns.
Yes, there will always be the occasional people who rip off the system, but the way to catch those people is not to make it harder on the people who need the system to be accessible.

[KEK]

perhaps what is being spoken of is the widespread ABUSE of a system designed to be only a safety net for hard-working people who are down on their luck by people who want the system to be a lifetime hammock so that they don't have to work a day in their lives and can spend their lives being lazy

What evidence do you have that it's widespread? Until the economic downturn at least, most Western European countries (the one with the robust social safety nets) had comfortably better employment rates than the US did. In fact, even now there's no correlation between the two.

The US government actually spends more per-capita on healthcare than anyone else. Why? Because the hospitals are privatized and the pharmaceutical companies are not regulated, which means they can charge what they like, so even limited healthcare provisions for the most needy cost a fortune. The drug companies are taking US tax-payers for mugs, and the politicians don't care because they're in their pockets.

[mad_gater]

the only reason healthcare costs are spiraling out of control in the first place is because of asinine, and costly involvement that's actually making things WORSE, not better.....when the government got involved guess who became the first point of contact for anything medical? the primary care physician.....every time you need a test or surgery done you have to have a consultation with your primary.....and get charged a crapload of money in the process for each primary care visit....before the government stuck its schnoz in where it didn't belong we actually had a workable system of paying what WERE reasonable out-of-pocket expenses for routine things and maintaining insurance only for catastrophic care that involved lengthy hospital stays...now because of the current culture of making insurance pay for everything there's actually no incentive to keep costs low....medical personnel can charge as much as they like.....I think someone online posted a physician's "declaration of independence" that amounted to this evidently radical notion of letting doctors and patients work out a means of equitable compensation between the 2 of them instead of involving all these faceless third-party payers of medical expenses like the HMO's and the government

[KEK]

I'm pretty sure the free-market gave us the medical insurance paradigm, not the US government.

[Galileo]

how about not having to spend so much on visiting doctors in the first place?

In Australia, the cost of seeing a GP is quite a bit lower than that of the US and several other countries. It's affordable and goes loosely on the time you spend with the doctor, so if you need more time, you can book a double appointment. since most things don't take too long, usually you are only paying for the one. Government regulation of certain essential services is not a bad thing. it means that they remain affordable.

[Coco Pops]

how about not having to spend so much on visiting doctors in the first place?

In Australia, the cost of seeing a GP is quite a bit lower than that of the US and several other countries. It's affordable and goes loosely on the time you spend with the doctor, so if you need more time, you can book a double appointment. since most things don't take too long, usually you are only paying for the one. Government regulation of certain essential services is not a bad thing. it means that they remain affordable.

I think Our public health system in Australia is good. But Private cover is always preferable where you can get it.

[Gatefan1976]

how about not having to spend so much on visiting doctors in the first place?

In Australia, the cost of seeing a GP is quite a bit lower than that of the US and several other countries. It's affordable and goes loosely on the time you spend with the doctor, so if you need more time, you can book a double appointment. since most things don't take too long, usually you are only paying for the one. Government regulation of certain essential services is not a bad thing. it means that they remain affordable.

No, we pay for visits, and if you get a doctor who bulk bills, there is no out of pocket cost to see a GP. I think you are confusing specialists with GP's brother.

[Gatefan1976]

I think Our public health system in Australia is good. But Private cover is always preferable where you can get it.

If you don't have private cover, you pay a higher medicare levy. Private cover out here is great however because it is AFFORDABLE for a family or individual.

[Galileo]

I think Our public health system in Australia is good. But Private cover is always preferable where you can get it.

Private healthcare should exist for those who want it. people shouldn't be forced to get it when they can't afford it. I know a lot of people who really can't afford the cost, but they get it anyway and struggle because of the simple fact that it means they get a better service. Private healthcare should exist for the people who want a bit extra and so on, but it shouldn't replace something that is ultimately a right and should be provided to everyone. There shouldn't be one system for people who can afford it and a second, less effective system for those who can't.

No, we pay for visits, and if you get a doctor who bulk bills, there is no out of pocket cost to see a GP. I think you are confusing specialists with GP's brother.

my point is is that if you have to pay, and i have had to occasionally due to not having up to date information, it's not going to cost you a fortune and you can get it back from medicare in any case.

also, I'm a girl. I know my avi is confusing.

[Gatefan1976]

Private healthcare should exist for those who want it. people shouldn't be forced to get it when they can't afford it. I know a lot of people who really can't afford the cost, but they get it anyway and struggle because of the simple fact that it means they get a better service. Private healthcare should exist for the people who want a bit extra and so on, but it shouldn't replace something that is ultimately a right and should be provided to everyone. There shouldn't be one system for people who can afford it and a second, less effective system for those who can't.

Agree

my point is is that if you have to pay, and i have had to occasionally due to not having up to date information, it's not going to cost you a fortune and you can get it back from medicare in any case.

Yup

also, I'm a girl. I know my avi is confusing.

It's hard to tell though all the eucalyptus haze my dear, I apologise
(and it wasn't the Avi, it was the name )