The Political Discussion Thread

[Coco Pops]

Does the word "Hindenburg" mean anything to you

Oh one accident because they used hydrogen for the ship and it blew up. They'd still be a cool thing in the air and helium is much safer.

I want my gigantic airship

[KEK]

but would be rather devoid of things like compassion, something vitally necessary for massage therapy and any other licensed health care profession...

Colour me sceptical.

[Gatefan1976]

Oh one accident because they used hydrogen for the ship and it blew up. They'd still be a cool thing in the air and helium is much safer.

I want my gigantic airship

Simple answer is, they cost far too much to make for such little amount of transport capabilities and operate too slowly for most people.
Having said that, they would be cool Co-Co

[Nolamom]

okay, totally off-subject for a second, but I wanted to share this bit from the Pope. Finally, a non-judgmental Pope!

[Gatefan1976]

okay, totally off-subject for a second, but I wanted to share this bit from the Pope. Finally, a non-judgmental Pope!

Jesus had two fathers, he turned out ok................

[aretood2]

[ATTACH]38232[/ATTACH]



From 1904...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ectric_vehicle

Even today, electric cars are plugged into whatever electrical system is handy, whatever that might be. It was no different back then, those cars ran on batteries too. Read the article above. They managed to set automobile speed records of 62mph in 1899. The first 4-wheeled electric automobile was built in 1888, and an electric motor cycle was exhibited in the 1867 World Exposition in Paris.

I said that they were not long range, long duration, high speed cars. Which is exactly the case. They were slow, the battery did not last long enough, and they were limited in range and horse power. It's obvious why it lost out to the internal combustion engine. Today's electric cars are must faster, last much longer, and are more powerful...however they still require fossil fuels (The power plants) unless they are solar, in which case they thus become dependent on the weather and the time of day for recharging.

Except in a RBE, the 'consumer' would be taught from childhood that you don't just throw stuff away. As I said before, it is as much about changing the way people think as it is producing things differently. Someone that would throw away a cell phone for mere fashion reasons is clearly wasteful. Phones in a RBE could be upgraded, and you could decorate it how you wanted, but you wouldn't just throw it away. In any case there would be various styles to choose from to begin with. Even if you decided you liked a different style, you'd just put the old phone back into the resource pool. This argument is invalid, because individualism would not be lost in a RBE, rather they would be increased with the technologies to design your things before they even get made or built.

Have you ever wondered why there is no large "Design your own shoe" business? Especially for women who seem to have so much trouble finding the "right" shoes? Mostly because, despite rhetoric, we all want to be "told" what to wear and when to wear it. We just delude ourselves otherwise. If this wasn't the case, there'd be no fashion industry.

The only reason there is a 'quota' is because of lack of money in the current paradigm. There aren't many police dept's that wouldn't accept more police officers if money were no object. They don't hire because of a lack of funds, not for a lack of positions. Nor because of a lack of extra uniforms or guns, which could easily be made. So, your argument here doesn't work either. Said Police Dept. wouldn't have to pay their police officers anything, as aside from training, any police force would be pretty much voluntary.

The example was about RBE, not the current system. If a little girl wishes to be a police officer, no one will say no. But in an RBE, anyone can do anything. She'll train to be a cop, but a city of 10,000 does not need 100,000 police officers. She'll be turned away under an RBE and her whole life was wasted training to be a cop.

It would almost be funny, if it wasn't so sad. I'm an American that can trace my ancestry in this land in official documents back to about 1710, and with the Native American blood that flows through my veins many thousands of years before that too. My European ancestors on my dad's side first came to America from the British Isles in 1642, to Jamestown, Virginia under Sir William Berkley. I can claim as much ties to this land as just about anyone, with the possible exception of full blooded Native Americans.

I've also been forced to be on welfare at times as a child growing up, and never really had a permanent home or particularly nice things. I've never been on welfare myself during my adult life, at least not yet. In the past couple of years, I've had to go on Unemployment for the very first time. I agree with you, that there ARE resources to help people with schooling and such, but as you say, many people don't know about them. Or even if they do, they may not understand how to navigate the system to use them properly. Also, ironically, (at least these days) immigrants get assistance in many areas that natural born citizens do not. I've seen programs for immigrants to start businesses and other things, that aren't being offered to Americans, and if they are, I certainly would like to know about it.

I never heard of that. Tell me more.

[aretood2]

okay, totally off-subject for a second, but I wanted to share this bit from the Pope. Finally, a non-judgmental Pope!

Jesus had two fathers, he turned out ok................

Not to burst your bubble, but the dude said nothing about homosexual couples going to heaven. Just that the fact that one is attracted to something, isn't enough to cast down judgement.

[Gatefan1976]

Not to burst your bubble, but the dude said nothing about homosexual couples going to heaven. Just that the fact that one is attracted to something, isn't enough to cast down judgement.

Matthew 16:19

[aretood2]

Matthew 16:19

But one can judge a case, 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3.

[Gatefan1976]

But one can judge a case, 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3.

Not if you have chosen to forgo judgement at all!
(though I would have chosen 6:9 to counter-argue)

But enough of this side-track, it belongs elsewhere.

[aretood2]

I'm not entirely sure why Nola posted that here, though.

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not entirely sure why Nola posted that here, though.

Agreed, it should have been in the LGBT thread. Any mods venturing down here I put forth the motion that this sidetrack should be moved to that thread as it is more appropriate.

[Nolamom]

because the Pope speaks of a gay lobbing group within the church. I found his stand to be refreshing - don't judge people before they've acted. If their actions are contrary to beliefs/laws/etc. THEN condemn.

[SGalisa]

Spoiler:

You can both discuss that in the Tracking Earth's Future Prophecies with Current Events topic that I started. There's plenty of room in there for medical wonders and hindrances.
(see post #2 -- "health issues" (clarification -- which includes financial hindrances --costs on limited budgets, insurance, etc; existing progress or lack of progress in medical advances for various diseases & super-viruses, among other "health issues" -- such as existing knowledge taken into space for colonizing other planets, etc.))

Aside from that-- I got introduced to a personal TENS unit. Spent over $200 (USA $) on it, and used it ONCE - on my back. Never again! Long story short, because I couldn't get anyone to give me a straight answer on how to properly use it for the location it needed to fix, I did more damage to my back than helped it. Aghhhhhhhhhh! Eeeeeeek! Could NOT touch any portion of my back for nearly a month after that experience!

And having the therapist work out the kinks in my aching muscles -- no way! Those people hurt! I'd rather take the machine with an ice pack for 20 minutes, but never directly on my back! The Heating pad worked better there..!

Been procrastinating about using the TENS machine on my bad knees, but never again on my back! *shudders*.


Oh, and the insurance company hasn't paid me back yet for the TENS unit, probably because I didn't meet the annual deductible yet. So much (*sarcasm*) for health care plans...

So, you used a health care machine, probably in the wrong way. Blame 2 people
1: Your provider for not knowing how to use the product they sold
2: You for taking your "best guess" and hurting yourself.

Maybe I was at fault for listening to several professional people advising me that they've heard of other people using the unit all day, so they didn't know it could result in possible nerve damage, especially when the end results of using the unit that way was not revealed to them.. and I'm talking MD's and nurses here, but who were not neurology specialists. Fortunately, I stopped using the unit before the situation got worse. We were trying different options, including nauseating pain meds and a new doctor, because my previous doctor was NOT helping me at all (he actually aggravated the situation with his chiropractry crunching).

Also, Let's see, not sure if your "provider" is the same definition as how it is used in the USA. The "provider" (is the Health Care insurance company..) The "provider" doesn't tell the customer how to use the unit. I got it from a hospital supply store. The salesperson, at the hospital supply store, told me that my doctor would show me how to use the unit (which was how it ended up being done, but no one was certain about how much time on the machine is too much length of time, thus causing potentially damaging results). The health care insurance provider determines where the code is on the bill of sale and where it gets directed on the insurance plan. The TENS unit itself did not even state how often was too much time on one specific area per day.


The doctor informs the client how to use the unit, which in part was done, but not entirely because of a gray area no one knew the answer to, unless they were a neurology specialist. That would have been the next step. I already had the wonderful experience at the hands of skilled therapists using a more expensive TENS unit device. It was expensive to use their equipment, which you can use in any sports gym, but got the benefit of (paying more for) a therapist digging out the cramps (and causing more cramps while doing so) right before they set up the machine to make you feel Ooooooo and Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I was eternally grateful for the machine. NOt so happy about the human paws on technique to make the cramps get worse, before they got better.

This has nothing to do with the discussion on the socio-economics in play here.

Yes it does (if I'm understanding this properly / whatever). Machines aren't always helpful, and then there's that awful cost in budgeting what works and what doesn't. I know stories of people who have suffered from having back surgery with TENS devices inserted into their spine --costing them thousands of dollars (for surgery, meds, return therapy/rehab visits with paws on therapy, plus more machine hook-ups), and guess what..? many of those people had their internal devices removed because it was making their problem far worse than it started out as. What I did *not* mention yet, I would have mentioned further in the other topic--that's why I suggested going over there instead of starting a new topic, yada yada yada.
Therefore, maybe I should hold off until this stuff gets discussed in there instead?

[Gatefan1976]

Maybe I was at fault for listening to several professional people advising me that they've heard of other people using the unit all day, so they didn't know it could result in possible nerve damage, especially when the end results of using the unit that way was not revealed to them..

Right, so your provider.
If they did not know how a TENS unit is supposed to be operated, then they have no business attempting to sell or get you to use one without telling you this.
IF they did tell you this, and you did it anyway, you must accept the burden of "blame" here.

and I'm talking MD's and nurses here, but who were not neurology specialists. Fortunately, I stopped using the unit before the situation got worse. We were trying different options, including nauseating pain meds and a new doctor, because my previous doctor was NOT helping me at all (he actually aggravated the situation with his chiropractry crunching).

Why are you considering a Neurologist and not a Physiologist? I would more trust my muscles to MG than a Neurologist.......

Also, Let's see, not sure if your "provider" is the same definition as how it is used in the USA. The "provider" (is the Health Care insurance company..) The "provider" doesn't tell the customer how to use the unit. I got it from a hospital supply store. The salesperson, at the hospital supply store, told me that my doctor would show me how to use the unit (which was how it ended up being done, but no one was certain about how much time on the machine is too much length of time, thus causing potentially damaging results). The health care insurance provider determines where the code is on the bill of sale and where it gets directed on the insurance plan. The TENS unit itself did not even state how often was too much time on one specific area per day.

Who suggested a TENS machine? THAT is the provider, the rest is just where you got it and your insurance details. If you had a infected toe and the doctor prescribed a Anti-biotic, he PROVIDES the prescription. WHERE you fill that out is your business.

The doctor informs the client how to use the unit, which in part was done, but not entirely because of a gray area no one knew the answer to, unless they were a neurology specialist.

So your doctor did not say "use for 10 hours" or whatever?
He had no place recommending it then.

That would have been the next step. I already had the wonderful experience at the hands of skilled therapists using a more expensive TENS unit device. It was expensive to use their equipment, which you can use in any sports gym, but got the benefit of (paying more for) a therapist digging out the cramps (and causing more cramps while doing so) right before they set up the machine to make you feel Ooooooo and Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I was eternally grateful for the machine.

So you were happy with similar devices in the hands of those who knew how to use them?

NOt so happy about the human paws on technique to make the cramps get worse, before they got better.

Have you never heard the expression "it has to hurt before it heals"?

Yes it does (if I'm understanding this properly / whatever). Machines aren't always helpful, and then there's that awful cost in budgeting what works and what doesn't. I know stories of people who have suffered from having back surgery with TENS devices inserted into their spine --costing them thousands of dollars (for surgery, meds, return therapy/rehab visits with paws on therapy, plus more machine hook-ups), and guess what..? many of those people had their internal devices removed because it was making their problem far worse than it started out as. What I did *not* mention yet, I would have mentioned further in the other topic--that's why I suggested going over there instead of starting a new topic, yada yada yada.

Again, this is more a side effect of the failure of the current system, "give them a TENS, cause I get paid to recommend them", rather than the doctor in question actually treating the patient and the problem. I feel sorry for you SG, but this is the endemic failure of a industry that has shifted it's focus from healing to profiteering.

Therefore, maybe I should hold off until this stuff gets discussed in there instead?

If you wish.