The Political Discussion Thread

[The Flyattractor]

Chaos and Tyranny maybe? But then those aint exactly new concepts either.

[aretood2]

You know from 1800 to 2013 is just over 200 years and in that time we seem to have run out of money or such..... Such a system was destined to fail eventually, but what's the alternative? No one knows.

Just ask the Roman Empire...wait....um...yeah....

[The Flyattractor]

I am willing to support the new Mongol Horde Party.

*puts on furry pants and gets battle axe oiled*

[pookey]

Thats......thats disturbing, Fly in furry pants .....

[SGalisa]

SGalisa, are you Catholic?

Am I Catholic? Not any more. Probably not by the diocese's standards anyway.
Do I worship Mary? No.
I pray to Jesus, not to (mother) Mary, because Jesus said to pray to the FATHER thru "him" (indirectly implied in John 14:6--in Jesus Name... that means Jesus, Not in Mary's name). So, no, I was probably an outcast in the Catholic Church when I did attend Catholic mass/services.
also--

Spoiler:

Bible verses regarding prayer--- Matthew 6:6-7

(New International Version)
6) "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7) And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."


(New Revised Standard Version--Catholic Edition (NRSVCE))
6) "But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

7) "When you are praying, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard because of their many words."

...what do you think of the notion that due to massive overpopulation we will destroy ourselves over resources?

I think most of the comments that came since this question was initially asked, were pretty much answered in a balanced pro/con nature.

As for the destruction of resources caused by population woes (which apart from strip-mining various metals, most of the organic ends have so far involved the lack of replenishing the needed things back into our environment like drinkable water and greenery), it's not just population gone out of control that is the issue. Dealing with droughts, floods, storms of disastrous magnitudes along with insects, bacterias, germs, etc., also needs to be weighed into those equations.

I doubt it would take anything like that long for us to overpopulate the planet. We're not far off already. I wouldn't be against a 2 or 3 child policy right now, personally.

You don't think we need some form of population control? Somewhere down the line even?

As much as I'd hate putting a limit on the number of children per household, even with 2 or 3 is still doubling the fertile populations. Limiting families to one child doesn't seem fair, because having a sibling to help out either physically or merely in emotional comfort (if there are no grudge matches occurring), is better than relying on the rest of the community, who have their own struggles and life issues, and that is especially after mom and dad are no longer with us (or the single child/adult).

Also, it's not fair to set a firm limit on 2 children only, especially if twins or triplets are born a year or so after the first child is born first. It's not fair to be forced to chose which twin/triplet child should be "terminated" just for the sake of a (restricted and potentially enforceable) population law.

..And I'd prefer NOT to go into the whole birth control for "parents" who should NOT be parents to begin with.. got an on-going soap opera (with lots of slippery suds) going on with some distant relatives right now, that when I hear more, I might mention about it...

[SGalisa]

The more we advance technologically the more we can automate and streamline, and the less workers we need.

Advancing and streamlining is good, but someone has to babysit the robots..
I had a data entry job of babysitting the computer, and it still couldn't read everything the way it was supposed to, because the materials being processed into the machine were incorrectly cut, or the handwriting was so badly scribbled that the computer misread what was supposed to really be there. Sometimes, with the automation, about 50% of the work ended back into the manual data entry department anyway, so it was sort of pointless sending the bad stuff to us machine babysitters.

The retirement age is also much earlier than it needs to be.

And *what* age is that? ..
My dad was forced into early retirement at the age of 55 (years old). He died a year later (major heart attack resulting from extreme stress), because he couldn't get a part time job to keep "financial ends" meeting.

As for retirement age, it may be too early, but you can only drive it up so far. In most professions a 70 year old is not fit to work.

(Agreed) *sigh*
I know people in their mid 40's and 50's who are at the beginnings of becoming disabled for work, and losing their jobs due to job layoffs. Because of their current health status, they are having extreme difficultly getting even a part-time job that the 20's and 30-something year olds are gobbling up.

Been there, done that. (Generic) You can't get most jobs without the *experience*, but you can't get the experience without the job, and college / university degrees don't matter, unless you already KNOW someone on the inside of the particular business you are trying to get into. That in itself is not fair, but how the *system* usually works and has worked since 30 years ago... so, this info isn't anything new.


Also, if a person's cartilage doesn't cripple their spines, shoulders/arms, or legs (arthritis), which limits how much weight they can actually carry or move if working in a physical labor job; then there is macular degeneration or cataracts that causes (eye) blindness and can start as early as the age of 55 years.

I've been reading the health forums on other web discussion sites, and if the folks writing in are really the age they claim to be, there's a lot of unhealthy young folks out there.. what they weigh is NOT the problem, but the degeneration of their innards is the issue. Some were as young as 20- (or 30-) something and already crippled with multiple spinal operations, or on their way to living in a wheelchair at an early mid-50's age or earlier.

One of my former school classmates was naturally skinny, but already living in a wheelchair and installing handicapped accessible stuff into her home, at the age of 40 (years). That is very young. She used to brag to her friends about (herself) "doing" drugs, so I don't know what actually caused her innards to deteriorate at such an early age. It was just very sad news, when I heard about it.

[Coco Pops]

What the hell is wrong with policitics in the USA?

You have both republicans and democrats hiding behind religion to make the most bigoted statements ever. Anyone else said that in public and they'd be lynched

[SGalisa]

What the hell is wrong with policitics in the USA?

You have both republicans and democrats hiding behind religion to make the most bigoted statements ever. Anyone else said that in public and they'd be lynched

They're *rumored to be* spiraling (sending) this country down the proverbial sewage drain(s), because they don't want to advance any more, but fight each other and get everyone else to join in causing division across every line, culture, person, whatever -- until *they get their own way*. That's what I've heard/read. For more accurate descriptions, read the politics forum over at city-data (dot) com. It's quite eye-opening. Sort of one tracked minded, too, so it seems, but it parallels some of the audience comments on various radio (talk) programs, too.

oh, and it seems the general masses (mobs) responding to various news articles --on actual news web sites-- want a lynching (apparently several people who have been in the news recently), and won't stop until they get want they want.
I'm not even sure if those responding to the news blogs/etc., are real, separate individuals or the media playing 1001 aliases just to push their own politics / agenda. It's been very nauseating, especially these past few months / weeks over there ..and pretty much all over the internet wherever (controversial) news blogs openly appear. *sigh*


--------------------------------

I had wanted to add something more about earth's population issue(s)---

If people would start getting technology to actually work properly (instead of sabotaging it or being careless with what they are working on) in order to colonize other planets, maybe some of the angry populations stuck on their own, proverbial hamster wheels (political agendas, etc.) would actually have a hopeful future to look forward to instead of its currently weak and bleakened outlooks.

Russia is already working on a project to send a team to Mars by 2017 and do exactly that. First team is expected to set up housing and farming (good luck on finding the needed water and material supplies, etc). Second team is expected to reach Mars a year later and restock, refuel, etc, what doesn't exist on Mars and then return to earth, and so forth repeating the cycles. Team ONE will remain on Mars and NOT return to earth (that's what was in the news a while back). So, they will officially become the first Martians in who knows who many centuries, if no other living beings ever actually lived there.

So, while America (USA) stews itself (into a 3rd world status) on strife, welfare, dividing its own lands and peoples, and dealing with various problems now and then caused by storms, droughts and floods, Russia will have officially *won* the SPACE war (to actually colonize another planetary body in our solar system) that JFK sought to win during the 1960's. Going to the moon was only stage 1. Okay, maybe Neil Armstrong took the first human step onto the moon in our lifetime. But Russia, China, India, and I think Japan are working on setting up shops onto other planets. Some population impacts could be averted and redirected to a new planet --IF-- people would stop warring against each other... grumbles. How many planets are really out there? Also, work on speeding up the wormhole transports too, instead of just theorizing about them all / most of the time..


Virgin space flights, inspired by (U.K.'s) Sir Richard Branson may help reduce future commercial costs to get humans beyond earth and transit over to other planets, but most of the rest of the space stuff is now being done by non-USA earthlings.
Seems our (USA) gov't is too pre-occupied with things of the past to bother with the here and now --let's work together in peace and harmony and settle down on other planets.. afterall, it seems to be a HUGE universe out there, and we're all still stuck on planet Earth. Well, those of us not privileged to take flight on going above and beyond into new horizons beyond earth's little sphere --for various reasons (health, finances).

[Coco Pops]

They're *rumored to be* spiraling (sending) this country down the proverbial sewage drain(s), because they don't want to advance any more, but fight each other and get everyone else to join in causing division across every line, culture, person, whatever -- until *they get their own way*. That's what I've heard/read. For more accurate descriptions, read the politics forum over at city-data (dot) com. It's quite eye-opening. Sort of one tracked minded, too, so it seems, but it parallels some of the audience comments on various radio (talk) programs, too.

oh, and it seems the general masses (mobs) responding to various news articles --on actual news web sites-- want a lynching (apparently several people who have been in the news recently), and won't stop until they get want they want.
I'm not even sure if those responding to the news blogs/etc., are real, separate individuals or the media playing 1001 aliases just to push their own politics / agenda. It's been very nauseating, especially these past few months / weeks over there ..and pretty much all over the internet wherever (controversial) news blogs openly appear. *sigh*


--------------------------------

I had wanted to add something more about earth's population issue(s)---

If people would start getting technology to actually work properly (instead of sabotaging it or being careless with what they are working on) in order to colonize other planets, maybe some of the angry populations stuck on their own, proverbial hamster wheels (political agendas, etc.) would actually have a hopeful future to look forward to instead of its currently weak and bleakened outlooks.

Russia is already working on a project to send a team to Mars by 2017 and do exactly that. First team is expected to set up housing and farming (good luck on finding the needed water and material supplies, etc). Second team is expected to reach Mars a year later and restock, refuel, etc, what doesn't exist on Mars and then return to earth, and so forth repeating the cycles. Team ONE will remain on Mars and NOT return to earth (that's what was in the news a while back). So, they will officially become the first Martians in who knows who many centuries, if no other living beings ever actually lived there.

So, while America (USA) stews itself (into a 3rd world status) on strife, welfare, dividing its own lands and peoples, and dealing with various problems now and then caused by storms, droughts and floods, Russia will have officially *won* the SPACE war (to actually colonize another planetary body in our solar system) that JFK sought to win during the 1960's. Going to the moon was only stage 1. Okay, maybe Neil Armstrong took the first human step onto the moon in our lifetime. But Russia, China, India, and I think Japan are working on setting up shops onto other planets. Some population impacts could be averted and redirected to a new planet --IF-- people would stop warring against each other... grumbles. How many planets are really out there? Also, work on speeding up the wormhole transports too, instead of just theorizing about them all / most of the time..


Virgin space flights, inspired by (U.K.'s) Sir Richard Branson may help reduce future commercial costs to get humans beyond earth and transit over to other planets, but most of the rest of the space stuff is now being done by non-USA earthlings.
Seems our (USA) gov't is too pre-occupied with things of the past to bother with the here and now --let's work together in peace and harmony and settle down on other planets.. afterall, it seems to be a HUGE universe out there, and we're all still stuck on planet Earth. Well, those of us not privileged to take flight on going above and beyond into new horizons beyond earth's little sphere --for various reasons (health, finances).

I've read some of that stuff you mentioned and it's in a word chilling.

And the amount of disrespect for the office of President. I like Obama but the amount of vitriol since he was first elected is just amazing.

I do hope humanity gets to space but I also do hope we don't do to other planets what we have done to Earth

[Falcon Horus]

I'm not entirely sure I should take you serious on this really...

Russia is already working on a project to send a team to Mars by 2017 and do exactly that. First team is expected to set up housing and farming (good luck on finding the needed water and material supplies, etc). Second team is expected to reach Mars a year later and restock, refuel, etc, what doesn't exist on Mars and then return to earth, and so forth repeating the cycles. Team ONE will remain on Mars and NOT return to earth (that's what was in the news a while back). So, they will officially become the first Martians in who knows who many centuries, if no other living beings ever actually lived there.

...hence I assume you're joking.

But, in case you're not, I found two articles on respectable looking websites which contradicts just about everything you state above:

Europe's ExoMars May End Russia's Bad Luck on Mars
Russia brings mice and newts back from Mars research mission

One very interesting bit from that second article states the following...

Russia has long set its sights on Mars and is now targeting 2030 as the year in which it could begin creating a base on the Moon for flights to the Red Planet.

So, they're not on Mars yet in the distant future if they're aiming for the moon first around 2030.

But Russia, China, India, and I think Japan are working on setting up shops onto other planets. Some population impacts could be averted and redirected to a new planet --IF-- people would stop warring against each other... grumbles. How many planets are really out there? Also, work on speeding up the wormhole transports too, instead of just theorizing about them all / most of the time..

Now, I know you're joking. Or you watch too much scifi...

Virgin space flights, inspired by (U.K.'s) Sir Richard Branson may help reduce future commercial costs to get humans beyond earth and transit over to other planets, but most of the rest of the space stuff is now being done by non-USA earthlings.

For anyone who's got 250,000$ to spare --> Virgin Galactic

I do hope humanity gets to space but I also do hope we don't do to other planets what we have done to Earth

The reason we search out other planets, and research them is to find sources that we can use to power our technology and advance. That's what we do. So, it's without a doubt in my mind that we would do exactly with other planets as what we are doing to Earth.

[Col.Foley]

What the hell is wrong with policitics in the USA?

You have both republicans and democrats hiding behind religion to make the most bigoted statements ever. Anyone else said that in public and they'd be lynched

You know I commented on the bottom one first but it occured to me...talk about vitriol. People should be lynched for expressing an opinion. Now I know what is wrong with this planet thank you for enlightening me.

I've read some of that stuff you mentioned and it's in a word chilling.

And the amount of disrespect for the office of President. I like Obama but the amount of vitriol since he was first elected is just amazing.

I do hope humanity gets to space but I also do hope we don't do to other planets what we have done to Earth

I am no fan of Bush or Obama or really any of them when you get down to it but I am a fan of history, and I do have some what of a memory. Just ask John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and George Bush what they think of vitriol. In fact while Bush, Jefferson, and Adams had the media after them and calling them nasty names and have their opponents calling them nasty names in the media...Obama doesen't. And before you say 'yes he does' which one of us actually pays attention to the alternative media?

[SGalisa]

I'm not entirely sure I should take you serious on this really...

...hence I assume you're joking.

But, in case you're not, I found two articles on respectable looking websites which contradicts just about everything you state above
...

... NOT joking.

Hmmm, maybe you haven't read far enough to find spacedaily. I forget how I first found this particular spacey site; maybe it was thru space(dot)com or the dailygalaxy(dot)com.. or even some google topics..
I don't remember.

spacedaily(dot)com seems to be on par (or up there) with Space(dot)com (with space-dot-com being the heavy-weight of the 2 sites).
Within spacedaily are other links to all sorts of interesting space and planetary stuff, including treehugger-friendly terradaily(dot)com and solardaily, etc. I used to confuse spacedaily with sciencedaily..uhh, not the same, and sciencedaily has some annoying features, so I tend to avoid going there lately.

Regarding the progress report for colonizing Mars---

Spoiler:

below article is at marsdaily (sublink).. not sure which country representatives are actually going..

"Mars One announces requirements for Red Planet colonists"
by Alexandra Kurapova
Moscow (Voice of Russia) Jan 14, 2013

"Mars One, a Netherlands-based non-profit company that hopes to deliver the first humans to the Red Planet by 2023, has issued a list of basic requirements for those willing to become Mars colony pioneers.
...
The first colonists will land on the Red Planed in April 2023. New members will arrive every two years after that. None of the Red planet pioneers, the company notes, will ever return to the Earth.
...
...SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket which is still under development but expected to perform its first flight next year, is expected to deliver many components of the first colony to the Red Planet."

{Source--Voice of Russia (link is in the article)}

Time will tell and reveal all.

Now, I know you're joking. Or you watch too much scifi...

uhhh, neither...
About a year ago or thereabouts, there were several articles at space(dot)com, dailygalaxy, and spacedaily regarding the progress of the other nations (China, India, and confirmed Japan via google on spacedaily's search tool) sending spacecraft to earth's moon. There was a big hoopla of commentaries on the internet discussing questioning the discoveries behind this news. I think some (comments) were at the city-data forums under their science / space subforums.

The reason we search out other planets, and research them is to find sources that we can use to power our technology and advance. That's what we do. So, it's without a doubt in my mind that we would do exactly with other planets as what we are doing to Earth.

Yeah, that's one motive, because earth is running out of its unreplenishable, mineral resources. So goes the quest to mine asteroids..

However, colonizing another planet just to live there --plain and simple-- is on the minds of other earthlings who know this little earth just won't be big enough forever for everyone. It's sort of like moving to another town/city, except we're talking about moving lock, stock and barrel of goods over to a completely different planet billions/zillions of miles away.

Preferably, people will be able to leave their hostilities behind and forge ahead as a team, regardless of who is with them. Those folks leaving will be the only family or team each other will have, regardless of not being related to one another or whatever other differences might exist between them.
Imagine separating oneself from earth's politics forever... and a new Law and Order gov't system gets formed..

I've read some of that stuff you mentioned and it's in a word chilling.
...
I do hope humanity gets to space but I also do hope we don't do to other planets what we have done to Earth

Agreed. That's why it's important to figure out how to fix things in the here and now (and as calmly and peacefully as possible), not later -- after one is beyond earth's orbit.
It frustrates me to no end when I see projects with *half baked* (forgotten details) results, because "OHHHHHHHHHH! guess no one had the foresight to see *that* (dilemma) coming..!"

[Col.Foley]

... NOT joking.

Hmmm, maybe you haven't read far enough to find spacedaily. I forget how I first found this particular spacey site; maybe it was thru space(dot)com or the dailygalaxy(dot)com.. or even some google topics..
I don't remember.

spacedaily(dot)com seems to be on par (or up there) with Space(dot)com (with space-dot-com being the heavy-weight of the 2 sites).
Within spacedaily are other links to all sorts of interesting space and planetary stuff, including treehugger-friendly terradaily(dot)com and solardaily, etc. I used to confuse spacedaily with sciencedaily..uhh, not the same, and sciencedaily has some annoying features, so I tend to avoid going there lately.

Regarding the progress report for colonizing Mars---

Spoiler:

below article is at marsdaily (sublink).. not sure which country representatives are actually going..

"Mars One announces requirements for Red Planet colonists"
by Alexandra Kurapova
Moscow (Voice of Russia) Jan 14, 2013

"Mars One, a Netherlands-based non-profit company that hopes to deliver the first humans to the Red Planet by 2023, has issued a list of basic requirements for those willing to become Mars colony pioneers.
...
The first colonists will land on the Red Planed in April 2023. New members will arrive every two years after that. None of the Red planet pioneers, the company notes, will ever return to the Earth.
...
...SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket which is still under development but expected to perform its first flight next year, is expected to deliver many components of the first colony to the Red Planet."

{Source--Voice of Russia (link is in the article)}

Time will tell and reveal all.


uhhh, neither...
About a year ago or thereabouts, there were several articles at space(dot)com, dailygalaxy, and spacedaily regarding the progress of the other nations (China, India, and confirmed Japan via google on spacedaily's search tool) sending spacecraft to earth's moon. There was a big hoopla of commentaries on the internet discussing questioning the discoveries behind this news. I think some (comments) were at the city-data forums under their science / space subforums.




Yeah, that's one motive, because earth is running out of its unreplenishable, mineral resources. So goes the quest to mine asteroids..

However, colonizing another planet just to live there --plain and simple-- is on the minds of other earthlings who know this little earth just won't be big enough forever for everyone. It's sort of like moving to another town/city, except we're talking about moving lock, stock and barrel of goods over to a completely different planet billions/zillions of miles away.

Preferably, people will be able to leave their hostilities behind and forge ahead as a team, regardless of who is with them. Those folks leaving will be the only family or team each other will have, regardless of not being related to one another or whatever other differences might exist between them.
Imagine separating oneself from earth's politics forever... and a new Law and Order gov't system gets formed..





Agreed. That's why it's important to figure out how to fix things in the here and now (and as calmly and peacefully as possible), not later -- after one is beyond earth's orbit.
It frustrates me to no end when I see projects with *half baked* (forgotten details) results, because "OHHHHHHHHHH! guess no one had the foresight to see *that* (dilemma) coming..!"

Well to be fair we are talking about other planets and extra solar solar systems I do not think anyone has written a technical manual on how to deal with that sort of thing yet.

[Coco Pops]

Yay for Femshep

And what happens if we do get there one day and the planet already has inhabitants?

[Seastallion]

Yay for Femshep

And what happens if we do get there one day and the planet already has inhabitants?

I hate to say it, but I think we've already seen what would likely happen if those aliens were less technologically advanced than us, and unable to resist. The movie Avatar wasn't wrong, sadly. It's what happened all over the world when a more powerful group has moved in on the territory of a weaker group. Genocide, enslavement, and serfdom.