The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

The thing about the Constitution and legal documents in general is that they are open to multiple interpretations.

[Gatefan1976]

Yes, there is a semi-colon there. I used a period because I was only quoting that portion. Either way...states that impose bans on same sex unions are abridging the privileges of US citizens.

Not really, they would fall under "due process of law" unfortunately.
If you get a Federal ruling allowing all privilege and benefits to same sex couples, THEN states making their own laws would be seen as abridging peoples rights.

[LtColCarter]

Not really, they would fall under "due process of law" unfortunately.
If you get a Federal ruling allowing all privilege and benefits to same sex couples, THEN states making their own laws would be seen as abridging peoples rights.

Then explain to me how African Americans used this amendment to get their rights?? It is the same thing.

“The barometer of where one is on human rights question is no longer the black community, it’s the gay community. Because it is the community most easily mistreated.” Bayard Rustin '86

Mr. Rustin was highly active in the Civil Rights movement. He was not only an African American, he was also gay. You can see when someone is black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. You can't see when they're gay. Some may be obvious but most are not. African Americans used the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution to secure their rights...rights to vote...rights to use the same public facilities and services as white people...the right to be treated as more than second class citizens. And the last time I checked, there is nothing in the 14th Amendment specifying African American people...yet it worked to give them their rights. It is the Federal government that isn't protecting the rights of part of its citizenry. Its the Federal government allowing states to abridge the rights of US citizens by denying a sub-culture the same rights and privileges as the general population. So, as the video I posted earlier implies...it's time to step up!

[Gatefan1976]

Then explain to me how African Americans used this amendment to get their rights?? It is the same thing.

“The barometer of where one is on human rights question is no longer the black community, it’s the gay community. Because it is the community most easily mistreated.” Bayard Rustin '86

Mr. Rustin was highly active in the Civil Rights movement. He was not only an African American, he was also gay. You can see when someone is black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. You can't see when they're gay. Some may be obvious but most are not. African Americans used the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution to secure their rights...rights to vote...rights to use the same public facilities and services as white people...the right to be treated as more than second class citizens. And the last time I checked, there is nothing in the 14th Amendment specifying African American people...yet it worked to give them their rights. It is the Federal government that isn't protecting the rights of part of its citizenry. Its the Federal government allowing states to abridge the rights of US citizens by denying a sub-culture the same rights and privileges as the general population. So, as the video I posted earlier implies...it's time to step up!

Wouldn't that be more in accordance with the 15th Amendment?

[aretood2]

Not really, they would fall under "due process of law" unfortunately.
If you get a Federal ruling allowing all privilege and benefits to same sex couples, THEN states making their own laws would be seen as abridging peoples rights.

That's the thing. The Government doesn't even have to recognize any marriage whatsoever. It's not part of the constitutional rights. However if it is recognized in some situations, the question is should it be limited? That's in essence what's going on. Not whether or not there's a violation of constitutional rights, but whether or not it should be limited to heterosexual unions versus it being inclusive of homosexual unions. I think Foley is of the opinion that marriage shouldn't even be recognized at all. His opinion is not in violation of anything in the constitution.

When it comes to things like discriminatory businesses and employers and free speech and assembly and voting, the constitution has much to say about those things. The founding fathers and the Congresses before the 1900's would never have imagined this debate existing at all. Which is why it's so hard to pick the right amendment. That's not to say you can't make an argument one way or the other. Just that this isn't the same kind of argument.

Then explain to me how African Americans used this amendment to get their rights?? It is the same thing.

“The barometer of where one is on human rights question is no longer the black community, it’s the gay community. Because it is the community most easily mistreated.” Bayard Rustin '86

Mr. Rustin was highly active in the Civil Rights movement. He was not only an African American, he was also gay. You can see when someone is black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. You can't see when they're gay. Some may be obvious but most are not. African Americans used the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution to secure their rights...rights to vote...rights to use the same public facilities and services as white people...the right to be treated as more than second class citizens. And the last time I checked, there is nothing in the 14th Amendment specifying African American people...yet it worked to give them their rights. It is the Federal government that isn't protecting the rights of part of its citizenry. Its the Federal government allowing states to abridge the rights of US citizens by denying a sub-culture the same rights and privileges as the general population. So, as the video I posted earlier implies...it's time to step up!

Wouldn't that be more in accordance with the 15th Amendment?

Right to vote wasn't not supported by the 14th amendment. That would be the 15th. Segregation was ended via the 14th amendment. Fun fact, LBJ who signed the Civil Rights act of 1964 was a teacher of a "Mexican" school in Texas. That court decision was tested to end segregation elsewhere. Enforcement required more than just a court victory, but this is source of the end of de jure segregation.

[LtColCarter]

Wouldn't that be more in accordance with the 15th Amendment?

No the 14th...I'm not talking about the right to vote. I'm talking about segregation. African Americans were denied their rights and used the 14th amendment to end segregation. This is applicable in the instance of the same-sex couples wanting the same rights and privileges as hetero couples. I did mention the right to vote in my posting, but the theme of the post was about being denied rights.

[Gatefan1976]

No the 14th...I'm not talking about the right to vote. I'm talking about segregation. African Americans were denied their rights and used the 14th amendment to end segregation. This is applicable in the instance of the same-sex couples wanting the same rights and privileges as hetero couples. I did mention the right to vote in my posting, but the theme of the post was about being denied rights.

Let me ask the question then, WHAT rights are the LGBT community after? Don't wikki me up a list, tell us what rights YOU want.

[Falcon Horus]

The right to an equal marriage status as any straight couple?

[jelgate]

Marriage is never equal. Woman always telling the man what to do. How is that equal?

[Falcon Horus]

Marriage is never equal. Woman always telling the man what to do. How is that equal?

Damn, that's right.

[Gatefan1976]

The right to an equal marriage status as any straight couple?

But WHAT does that MEAN FH?

I mean, for ME, I think you should have the exact same *legal* rights and responsibilities as any hetero couple in the country you live in, but that's generally where I draw the line.

[SoulReaver]

Marriage is never equal. Woman always telling the man what to do. How is that equal?

it is equal - to servitude :/



ps. feminism [n] : gender equality - when it suits them

[aretood2]

Nothing else is going on in the USA as far as politics goes, I guess. Nothing of any importance anyway.

[Gatefan1976]

Nothing else is going on in the USA as far as politics goes, I guess. Nothing of any importance anyway.

Would you like a nuke to go with your deadpan sarcasm??

[aretood2]

Would you like a nuke to go with your deadpan sarcasm??

I believe the North Koreans are taking care of that for me