The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

I just want to point out that it would be a mistake to think that the British Conservative Party is like the GOP. Boris Johnson is not like Trump, no matter how much the media tends to want to call Johnson the "British Trump". Johnson is Pro-Immigration, he may be anti-illegal immigration but unlike the GOP he actually is pro-immigration. He is also pro-Free trade which is a huge departure from Trump. In fact, the desire to seek free trade agreements is one of the items behind the pro-Brexit camp. They want to have their own free trade deals with other countries and not be constrained by the EU. Trump is not the most popular even among the conservatives relative to his popularity here in the GOP. Most of all, Boris is establishment and most certainly not a political outsider. I'm not saying that they polar opposites, they have many similarities, but Boris is just simply not the same thing. Brexit isn't "build the wall" even though such types jumped on the bandwagon. They do have a lot of similarities, similar controversies...except from where I am sitting, Boris isn't facing a vote of no confidence and wont any time soon.

Trump isn't facing a vote of no confidence, and it's one reason I am extremely leery of "presidents", it just carries the reek of monarchy, and when you get someone like trump who insists on absolute authority, you can kiss your democracy goodbye.
There is a very good reason why I prefer the Westminster system, and that's the major one.
Although, IF and ONLY IF the FF vision of no political parties still held true, it could -potentially- be a better system. I think any nation with a president should completely divorce the office of president from the political parties, the President should represent ALL the people, not just the ones who voted for a party.

[Gatefan1976]

I foresee a unification of Ireland happening next, and Scotland gaining independance which will leave the United Kingdom of England and Wales fending for themselves in the big bad world.
They're not the mighty empire they once were some 200+ years ago. They're an island of the coast of the rest of Europe.

I just wanted to push back on this a little bit.
While yes the UK is just an island off the coast of Europe, it is also the home of the Commonwealth, which is still the largest political body in the world. If the UK could leverage that power, they could seriously become a world power yet again. We've had votes out here to leave the commonwealth, but while this is a right wing notion, leaving is just not worth it. I disagree with the monarchist arguments offered by the right, BUT, there are advantages to having this worldwide "family".

[Annoyed]

Yes, and how many months are left on Trump's term? A little over a year to impeach Trump (which I think will fail miserably cause the Senate is GOP and they stand as one block behind him), to swear Pence into his role as POTUS (which first requires T to get kicked out, which won't happen anyway), and then to have Pelosi sit in until January 20 (or so) 2021.

It's as unrealistic as Trump's removal and as realistic as his election into his third term in 2024.

Since Trump is going to win next fall, he's in there till Jan. 20, 2025

Correction: Greta "Time Person of the Year" Thunberg

Let's compromise. "Snotnosed whiny brat of the year."

The referendum wasn't binding but they went with it. It was also build on lies which they've repeated for 3 years and were still repeating leading up to these elections.

Europe is sick and tired of the UK not getting their act together. The fall-out of the Brexit will be felt everywhere, including in the remaining European Union members.

We've been preparing for this carnaval since they invoked Article 50. The UK ain't ready and they're about to drop out with no deal. Europe is ready for that, but the UK... not at all.

The people don't want to leave, and a whole bunch of those who voted leave have since changed their minds when they learn what leaving actually means.

Anywho...

NONE of it matters. They powers that be put the decision before the voters. The voters made their choice. It would seem that the powers that be didn't like that choice. So the powers that be ignored it.

Thursdays vote gave the voters another chance to speak. As I understand it, it was basically a referendum on brexit, And those in opposition to it got spanked. So that's twice the voters told them to move forward with brexit.

And NOT going to the polls is a valid choice too. So the "too few voters" argument is meaningless.

Seems to me that you don't think an election is valid unless you agree with the result. Sorry, that's not the way it's supposed to work.

[Gatefan1976]

[Gatefan1976]

Since Trump is going to win next fall, he's in there till Jan. 20, 2025

With who's help this time?

Let's compromise. "Snotnosed whiny brat of the year."

Counter offer.
You are a douchebag.

NONE of it matters. They powers that be put the decision before the voters. The voters made their choice. It would seem that the powers that be didn't like that choice. So the powers that be ignored it.

No they didn't, they went ahead with it.
That's how they got into this Sh*tshow in the first place.
Are you capable of paying attention?

Thursdays vote gave the voters another chance to speak. As I understand it, it was basically a referendum on brexit, And those in opposition to it got spanked. So that's twice the voters told them to move forward with brexit.

No, it wasn't and as usual, you are wrong.
It was a parliament vote to determine which party would hold power.
The Westminster system is not bound by the same system as yours.

And NOT going to the polls is a valid choice too. So the "too few voters" argument is meaningless.

Not outside the US.

Seems to me that you don't think an election is valid unless you agree with the result. Sorry, that's not the way it's supposed to work.

It's also not supposed to have a antiquated system like the EC that can screw the will of the people, and then have the same people who benefit from it claiming "but you will undo the will of the people"
Yes, it's the system you have, but WHY is there now this screaming about "63 million people"??
You were happy to deny more people their vote.
Seems to me like you are full of sh*t.

[Gatefan1976]

[SoulReaver]

Boris Johnson is not like Trump, no matter how much the media tends to want to call Johnson the "British Trump". Johnson is Pro-Immigration, he may be anti-illegal immigration but unlike the GOP he actually is pro-immigration. He is also pro-Free trade which is a huge departure from Trump.

details

[SoulReaver]

With who's help this time?

no one

he's in power now he can help himself

Hmm, not sure.
The conservative swing was pretty huge, but I don't know if there is any evidence of rigging.

that's when you know it was rigging done right :|

technically there's no solid evidence of rigging in the rusky elections either is there?

I personally thing Boris is a tool, but at least he can be ousted by the party itself if he goes off the rails completely.
One massive advantage of the Westminster system.

when Hitler was nominated chancellor people also dismissed him as a figurehead with little power
besides who's to say the UK conservative party won't be lockstep behind Boris just like the GOP behind Don?

[SoulReaver]

It's as unrealistic as Trump's removal and as realistic as his election into his third term in 2024.

lol cause you think Donald can't have a 3rd term?

even if he fails to alter/bypass constitution
worst case scenario he "nominates" Don jr as his successor & with a bit of fixing gets him "elected"

basically
2024-2032 Don jr Trump
2032-2040 Eric Trump
2040-2048 Baron Trump

one of their spokesmen bragged about a 'Trump dynasty' on Fox I say they weren't kidding

[Annoyed]

No they didn't, they went ahead with it.
That's how they got into this Sh*tshow in the first place.
Are you capable of paying attention?

Clearly false. If they had, it would have already happened. Past tense. They wouldn't still be futzing around with BS to delay it.

And of course, perhaps the motivation for the delay was to use their media to convince their voters to change their mind. Didn't quite work out that way, did it? It's quite obvious even to me, on the other side of the pond that there are many entrenched interests who strongly oppose brexit. But the voters have spoken, not once but twice now. The majority of them want to leave the EU.
So, the proper thing for the government to do is execute the departure, NOW. No more delays, no more BS.

It's also not supposed to have a antiquated system like the EC that can screw the will of the people, and then have the same people who benefit from it claiming "but you will undo the will of the people"
Yes, it's the system you have, but WHY is there now this screaming about "63 million people"??
You were happy to deny more people their vote.
Seems to me like you are full of sh*t.

Despite your refusal to see it, the EC system gives voters that otherwise wouldn't have one a voice. And it's not going away.

Again, it seems that like FH, if an election doesn't produce the result that you want, it's invalid.

[Annoyed]

lol cause you think Donald can't have a 3rd term?

even if he fails to alter/bypass constitution
worst case scenario he "nominates" Don jr as his successor & with a bit of fixing gets him "elected"

basically
2024-2032 Don jr Trump
2032-2040 Eric Trump
2040-2048 Baron Trump

one of their spokesmen bragged about a 'Trump dynasty' on Fox I say they weren't kidding

Funny, I don't recall you griping about family ties when there was talk of Michelle Obama succeeding her husband. Or about Shrillary.

[SoulReaver]

Funny, I don't recall you griping about family ties when there was talk of Michelle Obama succeeding her husband. Or about Shrillary.

funny I don't recall either of these women or their husbands talking about their children running

this is about your King's goddam children which you know, is how dynasties & succession work
since when does the queen consort succeed to the throne (unless the king has no kids)

[SoulReaver]

Despite your refusal to see it, the EC system gives voters that otherwise wouldn't have one a voice.

what a crock of camel sh
what gives the majority of the citizens a voice then?

neocon logic: EC gives a voice...by silencing most voices

And it's not going away.

and you wonder why more & more Dem voters are silently arming themselves

[Annoyed]

what a crock of camel sh
what gives the majority of the citizens a voice then?

neocon logic: EC gives a voice...by silencing most voices

2016 was extremely winnable for the Democrats. In fact, they should have won, I expected them to. It just turned out they screwed up, in several ways. Trump executed under the system in place than they did, and they chose to run an extremely polarizing candidate.
But rather than look within themselves to see where they screwed up, and do a better job next time, offer a more electable candidate, they spend 3 years (so far) blaming everything else, including the kitchen sink, and trying to remove him via the courts. After all, they've been getting their way via the courts for decades.

Oh, and if it makes you feel better, they're on a path to screw up even worse next year.

and you wonder why more & more Dem voters are silently arming themselves

Ah, so you are in favor of citizens having the right to bear arms in case they need to do something about a government. Haven't I heard you argue against it?

[SoulReaver]

2016 was extremely winnable for the Democrats. In fact, they should have won, I expected them to. It just turned out they screwed up, in several ways

that's another topic

Ah, so you are in favor of citizens having the right to bear arms in case they need to do something about a government. Haven't I heard you argue against it?

first Aretood now you
where dafook did you see me say anything like that

fact is so far I haven't even participated in a gun debate I say it's pointless & leads nowhere
guns are no "left/right" topic (though for some reason they are in the US)

my comment had no bearing on the 2nd amendment debate itself
a "gun rights Dem" could've made that comment (as a show of support for those rights)
and a "gun control Dem" could've made that comment as a way of confronting the Repubs on their own gun rights stance (the've revealed their hypocrisy on this topic in the past)