The Political Discussion Thread

[AleksisMi]

americas people keep buying drugs, empowering cartels, causing violence and horrible societal disasters for south american cities, America is at fault, if we eliminate the cartels abilities to harm south americans, we win south americas freedom from the horror and pain we have "inadvertantly" inflicted on them assuming its not some vast horrible conspiracie to get immigrants to farm food crops for cheaper pay that hurt and collapse of americas own middle class and force america to transform its own economy and government to a new form of a clever plan to empower hte creation of a whole new era of corporate nobles

[Coco Pops]

So much winning

Harley Davidson movie production off shore outside the USA. MAGA

[Gatefan1976]

I think you dropped this sarcasm...………….

[Annoyed]

americas people keep buying drugs, empowering cartels, causing violence and horrible societal disasters for south american cities, America is at fault, if we eliminate the cartels abilities to harm south americans, we win south americas freedom from the horror and pain we have "inadvertantly" inflicted on them assuming its not some vast horrible conspiracie to get immigrants to farm food crops for cheaper pay that hurt and collapse of americas own middle class and force america to transform its own economy and government to a new form of a clever plan to empower hte creation of a whole new era of corporate nobles

Are you suggesting that we ought to legalize proven harmful drugs such as cocaine, heroin and such?

And using immigrants, both legal and illegal to undercut labor rates is a frequently used tactic of businesses in this country, not just farming. Please refer to Disney replacing domestic workers at its theme parks with immigrants at lower wage rates or Microsoft doing the same with programmers just to name two examples.

[aretood2]

I think me means that Mexico is doing nothing to stop illegals from coming to the US from Mexico. A good example would be that caravan a while back. Why didn't Mexico apprehend them and send them back where they came from at the southern border of Mexico?

A large section of those people are currently found in their respective Central American homes thanks to Mexican immigration. Others, another substantial portion, actually entered Mexico as part of an asylum process that required them to appear in Mexico City (Which is where the Caravan ended up). Only a small portion ended up going to the US border and they couldn't go together, so the Caravan never really made it past central Mexico, it was never going to go past central Mexico. So I ask the question again, why is it that Trump says that Mexico does nothing when it is deporting more people than the US?

You think the US border is bad? If Mexico stops doing what it is doing, then there'd be a real border crisis. Haven't you ever asked what happened with the flood of unaccompanied minors a few years back? Why it stopped? That's because Mexico tightened up its border security with Guatemala.

As for Mexicans? What is a democratic government limited by a constitution to do exactly?

[Falcon Horus]

15 pages and a week later ....

Everyone should look out for their own interests first, last and always. For the simple reason that no one else will.

Since the dawn of time, homo sapiens and other hominids have been involved in trade.

And from a nice, leftie web site, too. *snicker*
How long have I been saying the modern "enviros" are all about the money?

I see you're still missing the point... nothing new there.

Invest in alternate energy, so that the half percent can rise. Do nothing, and the enviros will get their win anyway.

Quite often, both before and after elections. But Trump, like a broken clock, can be right twice a day.

The situations aren't the same. For example. Hitler didn't persecute Jewish people attempting to migrate into Germany, did he? He went after Jews who were already in Germany, legally.

Tell that to the many outside of Germany who ended in the camps anyway...

No one has the right to migrate to another country without that country's permission.

Did your forefathers ask the natives permission to come take their land?

That's the attitude that many people take; the the US must take all comers. That's BS, and its about damned time that the people who advocate that position were told that they are wrong in no uncertain terms.

France called, it wants the Statue of Liberty back.

And also, you basically described the economic system best labeled as "National Socialism".

More commonly known as Nazional Socialismus.

At this point in time I am surprised Trumpist Have not made the suggestion to take down the Statue Of Liberty as a "foreign immigrant influence" and erected one of their orange god instead in its place.

Don't give them any ideas.

What kind of reaction would happen if they did try it?

Kim-Jong Un would send his regards.

https://geekyprint.com/459-thickbox_default/emperor-donald-trump-framed-canvas.jpg

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/i....w710.h473.jpg

He FAILS at every turn, the guy lost money running a casino FFS!!!

The house always wins, except when the house is called Trump.

Let's install cameras inside every USA home so that we can monitor when people are not being patriotic and standing for the national anthem. Good idea yes?

Very dystopian.

A buckshot a day keeps SkyNet away.

Skynet is an internet provider over here. Or it was, they rebranded.

Isn't Ireland also having a huge vote about abortion?

Yes, and the yes-vote won so parlement has a go to work on a legal base for it.

usually its "****hole" country.

We're a hell-hole.

Are these asylum seekers entering through a legal entry point, declaring their intentions?

Yes, and yet they get lumped in with the same ones that do not.

Sounds like a relatively simple problem to avoid. If you don't want to be separated from your children, don't try to sneak into the country with them. How hard is that to understand?

Congratulations, your overlord would be proud of you. You have mastered the art of using the children as leverage.

Or is obeying the law just too hard a concept?

Isn't crossing the border a misdemeanor, not a felony?

Also, asylum seekers follow the law.

Trump said in the beginning that he'll accept $1.00 for his annual salary.
According to the following article, he is donating the rest of his "salary" as noted.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-kim-jo...ctators-968644

“This is history. We are living — regardless of what happens in that meeting between the two dictators — what we are seeing right now, this is history.”

Best line ever, describing that summit, and coming from FOX makes it even better.

I don't know what to make of this so called summit.

Some bits of paper got signed but nothing binding has been set in stone.

NK could change their mind.

So what was the point?

Propaganda....

To put this summit into context "it was a nothingburger" I did some research

So let's see to put this new deal Tribblehead did into context

Spoiler:

1985: North Korea signs Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

1992: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#1)

1994: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#2)

1999: North Korea signs historic agreement to end missile tests

2000: North Korea signs historic agreement to reunify Korea

2005: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2005: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program and "denuclearize" (#3)

2006: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2006: North Korea again support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2007: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#4)

2007: North and South Korea sign agreement on reunification

2010: North Korea commits to ending Korean War

2010: North Korea announces commitment to "denuclearize"

2010: North Korea again announces commitment to "denuclearize"

2011: North Korea announces plan to halt nuclear and missile tests

2012: North Korea announces halt to nuclear program

2015: North Korea offers to halt nuclear tests

2016: North Korea again announces support for "denuclearization"

2018: North Korea halts nuclear tests after collapse of test site, announces support for "denuclearization"

That's a whole lot of "historic" -- we'll just add 2018 to the list then.

That bar is so low, i saw an ant trip over it.

Poor ant.

[Falcon Horus]

Have you priced out a decent car or truck these days? 30K+ in most cases.

Does it come with gold seats?

Well, then we'll wait until AFTER the EU (or any other nation) removes their tariffs on US products. Myself, I think we have a long wait.

I believe the word you're looking for here is "trade-deal".

F'get th' whyles, myte... Sayve th' SHAIRKS!

*screeches to a halt*

What?

<yoda voice>
Begun the great censorship war has
</yoda voice>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6ad7992bfc26

and

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/o...ump-fired.html

So since when is making fun of the President grounds for being fired?

Since POTUS goes by the name of Trump.

Ignore my complete lack of artistic talent for a moment. What do you think the odds of any editorial cartoon I would create would be accepted by Huffington, Vox, Salon or any of the other liberal havens? How long would I last in a job there?

Something 1st amendment something and something freedom of speech something... something...

....hoverboards as alternative to cars for urban commuting...

Hoverboards, really?

I'm not so fond of the idea of separating families either, but what are they supposed to do? Federal law prevents children from being charged with federal crimes, so they can't charge the children.

Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor under federal law:

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).

For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a low-level felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).

And don't say "well, let the adults go", that is completely unacceptable. We have to stem the flow of illegals into this country, and we have every right to do so. Having children should not be able to be used as a shield from being prosecuted for breaking the law. Or should the average burglar, rapist or murderer be given amnesty too, so they aren't separated from their children?

Rather amused by that line, because the GOP is using these kids to do exactly that. They use em as bargaining chips to get what they want. How very civil.

Detain families together until either asylum is given, or until the deportation order comes through.

We have closed centers like that too where families are held together until they are deported back to country of origin. It's at the airport.

But at the end of the day, the situation really is the illegal immigrant's fault. If they don't want to be separated, don't try to sneak in. It really is that simple.

You're an idiot. You don't see passed "illegal entry" or asylum because if you do, you might actually have to think of the situation they are coming from and why they came to the border in the first place.

I guess, it's only your luck you were born in the US, and never have to find out what it's like to dream about a better life some place safe or whatever.

I've already heard a news report that Trump has signed an EO to stop separating families while they are detained. Any bets on how long someone demands that they be outright released? Perhaps the children should be released, and then of course their parents should be released to take care of them.... And on an on it goes.

It does nothing for the kids who are already separated from their families -- reunification. And the GOP wants to do away with the limit of detaining children for a max of 20 days.

Harley Davidson movie production off shore outside the USA. MAGA

Trump has already send ample threads to Harley Davidson that he will impose very high taxes on their products if they dare to leave.

[Annoyed]

Something 1st amendment something and something freedom of speech something... something...

A common misconception.

The 1st amendment applies to THE GOVERNMENT restricting speech. It does not apply to media outlets, newspapers, or even message boards.
For example, if the owners of this message board chose to, they could block any and all left-wing thought and only allow right wingers their free say. And it would be perfectly legal.

[Annoyed]

Does it come with gold seats?

No. That's a basic full-size 4WD truck-chassis type vehicle.

I believe the word you're looking for here is "trade-deal".

Specifically, a FAIR trade deal, with a level playing field for all sides. Which seems to be quite offensive to our trade partners such as the EU, Mexico, Canada and such.
Consider. The EU, which includes Germany, levies a 10% tariff on cars imported from the US, while we levied a 2.5% tariff on theirs. Yeah, that's a fair deal all right.
Consider. As I understand it, Canada levies a 270% tariff on Milk and dairy products imported from the U.S. Yeah, another level playing field.

These are just two examples from BEFORE the recent dust-up that Trump has started over trade. The US has a trade deficit of about $565 Billion dollars.

If you ask me, it's long past time we demanded real "fair trade", but everyone else seems bent out shape at being asked to give up their own sweetheart deals that protect their economies, and I'm glad Trump is doing so.

Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor under federal law:

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).

For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a low-level felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).

As you cite, illegal entry is illegal, with the penalties defined in the law. Why do you have a problem enforcing that law?
And why should having children be a shield from those penalties? What if a man who has kids goes out and robs a store or something. Should his having kids be a legitimate reason he should not be punished according to the law?

[aretood2]

No. That's a basic full-size 4WD truck-chassis type vehicle.


Specifically, a FAIR trade deal, with a level playing field for all sides. Which seems to be quite offensive to our trade partners such as the EU, Mexico, Canada and such.
Consider. The EU, which includes Germany, levies a 10% tariff on cars imported from the US, while we levied a 2.5% tariff on theirs. Yeah, that's a fair deal all right.
Consider. As I understand it, Canada levies a 270% tariff on Milk and dairy products imported from the U.S. Yeah, another level playing field.

These are just two examples from BEFORE the recent dust-up that Trump has started over trade. The US has a trade deficit of about $565 Billion dollars.

If you ask me, it's long past time we demanded real "fair trade", but everyone else seems bent out shape at being asked to give up their own sweetheart deals that protect their economies, and I'm glad Trump is doing so.

The car tariff is a standard tariff the EU has on every nation in the world, except for those that they have signed free trade agreements. Another reason for EU's tariffs is because of US's tariffs on multiple other products, like the infamous chicken tariff. The EU is more than willing to lower those tariffs, as long as the US does the same...which is exactly what countries like Mexico have done and as a result Mexican built cars get basically a 0% tariff in EU.

Now, did you honestly simply forget that explanation? Because it's not the first time I post this...nor am I the only one who has posted this.

[AleksisMi]

i will say three things more about this...

america struggles to pay its chicken farmers fairly while making it the ready abundant affordable meat for everyone from poor to rich, though i do not think rich people buy chicken from the same sources as most people if they do buy chicken ever when turkeys exist and other strange delicacys like emu and purpoise... im sorry i mean "tuna".||

(i am mostly just half joking and guessing taking stabs at wild in the dark to guess human behavior so dont assume i believe half of what im posting, they are just mostly jokes with a faint question of what if in them)

america does need to change itself and find a way not to fund drug cartels even if its by its citizins, by providing free access drug clinics that can provide any drug, for free, you cripple the cartels power and reach, this is awful and will have expensive repercussions but could save many lives in the long term, and we have to follow through with aiding south american countries, governments, people, politicians, and start helping cartel members and leaders, even if forcefully, to have a better and more productive way to earn incom that doesnt hurt or threaten people, this will help america, canada, mexico, panama, and the whole of south america etc

finally resources, we need to curb human population expansion in a human way for every countrie without being fascist dictaters or soviet enslavers trying to push everyone in to communes and communism under the guise of "fair and balanced" freindships

[Gatefan1976]

i will say three things more about this...

america struggles to pay its chicken farmers fairly while making it the ready abundant affordable meat for everyone from poor to rich, though i do not think rich people buy chicken from the same sources as most people if they do buy chicken ever when turkeys exist and other strange delicacys like emu and purpoise... im sorry i mean "tuna".||

(i am mostly just half joking and guessing taking stabs at wild in the dark to guess human behavior so dont assume i believe half of what im posting, they are just mostly jokes with a faint question of what if in them)

america does need to change itself and find a way not to fund drug cartels even if its by its citizins, by providing free access drug clinics that can provide any drug, for free, you cripple the cartels power and reach, this is awful and will have expensive repercussions but could save many lives in the long term, and we have to follow through with aiding south american countries, governments, people, politicians, and start helping cartel members and leaders, even if forcefully, to have a better and more productive way to earn incom that doesnt hurt or threaten people, this will help america, canada, mexico, panama, and the whole of south america etc

finally resources, we need to curb human population expansion in a human way for every countrie without being fascist dictaters or soviet enslavers trying to push everyone in to communes and communism under the guise of "fair and balanced" freindships

Just how drunk are you?
Spelling and grammar are not something you usually fail at, and it's telling.
As to the subject
Just admit you don't know what you are talking about, and could not be bothered to learn.

[Annoyed]

The car tariff is a standard tariff the EU has on every nation in the world, except for those that they have signed free trade agreements. Another reason for EU's tariffs is because of US's tariffs on multiple other products, like the infamous chicken tariff. The EU is more than willing to lower those tariffs, as long as the US does the same...which is exactly what countries like Mexico have done and as a result Mexican built cars get basically a 0% tariff in EU.

Now, did you honestly simply forget that explanation? Because it's not the first time I post this...nor am I the only one who has posted this.

Because I don't buy it? Just consider cars. US levys 2.5%, and the EU levys 10% If they want "fair trade", why don't they lower their levy to 2.5%?

Why are so few US built cars sold in Germany? Why is our trade deficit so high?

Never mind statistics, we both know that they can be twisted to show whatever. I'm just looking at the practical, real world effects of "free trade" as represented by NAFTA and the like over the past 30 years or so, and it hasn't been good for us.

[Annoyed]

Just how drunk are you?
Spelling and grammar are not something you usually fail at, and it's telling.
As to the subject
Just admit you don't know what you are talking about, and could not be bothered to learn.

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I didn't take him for drunk, either. It looks to me like he just has the all too common mindset that it is the US's responsibility to pay for solving everyone else's problems.

It isn't.

[aretood2]

Because I don't buy it? Just consider cars. US levys 2.5%, and the EU levys 10% If they want "fair trade", why don't they lower their levy to 2.5%?

What don't you buy? That Mexican products don't tariffs in EU? To answer your question, that's because the "Chicken tax" trade dispute with the EU, so the car tariffs are in part a retaliation within that dispute. This isn't statistics, it's event by event history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Interestingly enough, the US was accused of dumping chickens...

Why are so few US built cars sold in Germany? Why is our trade deficit so high?

That's because the US refuses to remove trade barriers with trade partners and allies. American cars from Mexico sell more in more countries than American cars from the US because of Mexico's free trade agreements with the bulk of the developed world. The deficit isn't like the budget deficit, it isn't a "loss of money". It's just an index, like the wage gap. Taken at face value the wage gap would appear to mean that all women are paid less than all men at every job by the hour...which isn't the case.

Never mind statistics, we both know that they can be twisted to show whatever. I'm just looking at the practical, real world effects of "free trade" as represented by NAFTA and the like over the past 30 years or so, and it hasn't been good for us.

What statistics? These are raw facts.
Mexico has a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, Mexican built cars get 0% tariff in the EU.
The US has no Free Trade Agreement with the EU, American Built cars get 10% tariff in the EU.

Rinse and repeat for any product exported to the EU, you'll find the same thing.

These aren't statistics in the sense of "Who will you vote for" poll...they are raw facts. Are you doubting the veracity of what I am saying? Then say so.

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I didn't take him for drunk, either. It looks to me like he just has the all too common mindset that it is the US's responsibility to pay for solving everyone else's problems.

It isn't.

Problems the US caused in the first place? You talk a lot about responsibility, but negate it when it doesn't suit you. There's a word for that type of behavior...