The Political Discussion Thread

[BlowitUpistus]

Part 3 of 3..

Fake news is news that is clearly fake. Not whatever trump says is fake.

Pray tell, what do you think (if anything) should get DONE TO those news stations/papers who DO get caught making fake news?

No, i'm not. Anyone else could've been voted for. People chose to elect a piece of crap, then act like only the pile of crap was a choice.

Where as i feel what we got was MUCH better than either Sanders or Hillary. YES he's not perfect, but no one is.

Well, i'd like it if the next country the US invades didn't result in a ~15 year situation of instability leading to the unleashing of a Pandora's box of terrorists. Military action without a grander strategy is pointless. But i've yet to see a plan beyond 1: invade, 2: regime change, 3: ??? ,4: freedom!

I agree. i am tired of the whole "Regime change/nation building crapola.. JUST GO IN and blast the enemy away, then leave...

I don't think it was the expansion in and of itself that caused the collapse of the Roman Empire...it collapsed because the people running it became arrogant and complacent...which I sadly see mirrored here in the USA, which ironically enough was modeled after the same system that was in place in the old Roman Republic (before it became an arrogant and complacent Empire)

And iirc it also fell, cause it got over=ran by a # of foreigners who just came to TAKE.. That and gross incompetence in the leadership.

I agree in principle, but not in execution...nor probably for the same reasons...if that makes sense.

So what would your solution be if you think the execution of What trump's doing is poorly being done?

So Oprah for 2020...... This should be fun if she actually runs

But wait. The left railed about how POOR of a candidate trump was, cause he had nO experience. Neither does Oprah.. SO WILL they rail about how unqualified She is? OR cause she is THEIR pick, she's all good..?

Though yea, it would be fun. I mean, watching trump bumble about is fun (until i remember he's actually president). I imagine Oprah would similarly be fun. "You get a car, and you get a car! everyone gets a car!"

As long as its her OWN money (like when she does it on her show) she is using, i am ok with that. OI WHERE is mine!

People say you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Well, you can't have a finger in every pie without getting dirty fingers. The US likes to get involved everywhere, but that inevitably means some will be happy, and some will not.

Very good point. And one i have long said.. IF we were not so quick to get "UP IN everyone else's business" maybe they would be happier with what we DO do..

Some of the post requotes you replied to lead to a completely different post.
Take some time to recheck and redo your post,please.

That might have been cause if say i was quoting someone 5 times, but it was from 3 different posts, i just cut n paste their 'quote by' line from the first post.. Give me a bit o time to go back and edit please..

And I don't care what Meghan thinks or does, or whom she's friends with or not. The woman's engaged to Prince Harry, and beyond that I don't even know who she is. I know she's an actress but I doubt she'll do much acting once she's married into the royal British family.

Personally i am surprise 'who is marrying whom' being such a big deal is bunk.. WHY should we care who "HARRY" is marrying?

She'll have to adhere to certain rules and can't just post whatever she likes anymore. On that notion, she's already deleted her twitter and instagram account, and closed down her blog.

Already done. Though to ME that is stupid. Where's HER right to free speech?

bring back presumption of innocence when it's convenient?
would that apply to Bill Cosby Kevin Spacey Harvey Weinstein & Al Franken too? yeah me too me think no pussy-grabbing for Obama = no dignity

Cosby went to court. Spacey ADMITTED to his wrong doing (so did frankin and weinstein).. There fore they are not innocent by their OWN admission.. Moore on the other hand, had some of the evidence against him debunked..

I wouldn't want an exclusively leaning censoring. I would like means to ensure trolls and spambots are kept out, terrorists aren't freely recruiting and criminals aren't offered a platform.

If that means that occasionally (again, within reason) something gets removed when it shouldn't have, regardless of left or right leaning, then it's fine.

Isn't that kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water??

Can I ask a really, really simple question that even a toddler could answer?

Why should every trade deal or agreement be for the benefit of the USA?

Who would ever get into a trade deal that didn't benefit THEM??

There are more options than just 4 year college.

The other night's local news had a piece about how a # of local construction companies are having a HARD time getting qualified builders, stonemasons, welders etc.. IMO that is all cause few people, these days, seem to GO through the effort to GET those certifications..

You have more faith in the GOP than I at the moment. Right now, nothing short of high treason will get the GOP to turn on him.

Couldn't obama's handing over BILLIONS to our enemy (Iran) have been seen as high treason? And if not, what then would Trump have to do, to qualify?

"Back 40" refers to a plot of land used for growing things; farming/gardening and such. Often, fertilizer is spread over this land..

Kind of like how golfers go "On the back nine!"

Considering how many deaths are caused a year in cars from human error, you've no chance of avoiding them.

And who do we blame when Driverless cars start crashing?

Raths.. Thought i could get it done in 3 posts. 4th one coming.

[Falcon Horus]

Technically the whole cavemen thing isn't really true. Sure, humans lived in caves, but they lived everywhere else too. Caves just preserved things better, so when they found a bunch of ancient drawings etc in caves they called them cavemen. But really, humans were all over the place.

Good point... caves were great hide outs, unless occupied by animals... I mean, a bear is nice and warm but I doubt he'd be willing to share.

[BlowitUpistus]

The Man in the High Castle, I believe the TV-show is called? Isn't that about nazi's winning the war?

That it is. ALso, there's an author, Harry Turtledove, who has a lot of books in that genre..
https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...rry_Turtledove

And yet, it's still the largest religious group in the world.

Not really, when yoyu consider we have baptists, catholics, mormons, pentacostiles etc.. All IMO muddying things up.

Facebook has an odd censoring system in place, much like Twitter and other social media places.

Check out the latest Project Veritas video for how they do censoring..

You seem to forget 2018 -- if I remember correctly dems could take both house and senate back if they play their cards right.

God i hope not..
[/quote]

Err... question though, what's with the formal Mr.?

Trying to be polite. BUT i see that is almost a foreign concept around here..

If Breitbart News hadn't picked up on the tweet, only 28 people would have known about it.
And he did apologize for his tweet and deleted it himself.

Deleting it isn't getting punished though..

Well got dinner to get to..

[Annoyed]

ABS, traction control.

Excuse me? I'll drive, thank you.
I don't usually bother, but those systems can be switched off in my vehicle, and anytime I'm on any sort of slippery surface at all, I turn them off. I trust my judgement, I don't trust some machine.

[Annoyed]

Good point... caves were great hide outs, unless occupied by animals... I mean, a bear is nice and warm but I doubt he'd be willing to share.

Didn't you see the Mythbusters episode about slicing up a Tauntaun and sleeping in it for warmth?

[Falcon Horus]

Didn't you see the Mythbusters episode about slicing up a Tauntaun and sleeping in it for warmth?

No, I didn't but I can vividly imagine it.

[Ian-S]

Example: Sudden skid / loss of traction for whatever reason. Hitting the brakes will often make that far worse. Quite often, the best response to a skid is more power.

That weather situation would probably be the point where the car would say "you drive".

I'm like you I don't think I'd be happy being in a fully automatic car at 70mph (we have a driverless train system in London called the Docklands Light Railway and in all the time it's been running, it's never had an accident but it's top speed is like 15mph), but I don't mind having a guardian who could pull on the brakes ways quicker than me should little Tommy decided to run out into the road after his football.

I doubt we'll see fully automatic steering wheel less cars in our lifetime, but perhaps my sons, they will.

[Ian-S]

Sooo trumps excuse for not visiting the UK

He called the wrong country the ****hole, if you've ever been to London and ventured a few hundred yards off the tourists routes, you'll know what I'm on about.

[aretood2]

Excuse me? I'll drive, thank you.
I don't usually bother, but those systems can be switched off in my vehicle, and anytime I'm on any sort of slippery surface at all, I turn them off. I trust my judgement, I don't trust some machine.

That weather situation would probably be the point where the car would say "you drive".

I'm like you I don't think I'd be happy being in a fully automatic car at 70mph (we have a driverless train system in London called the Docklands Light Railway and in all the time it's been running, it's never had an accident but it's top speed is like 15mph), but I don't mind having a guardian who could pull on the brakes ways quicker than me should little Tommy decided to run out into the road after his football.

I doubt we'll see fully automatic steering wheel less cars in our lifetime, but perhaps my sons, they will.

The problem is, humans crash. Driverless cars have yet to cause an accident. They've been crashed into, but that was the fault of the human crashing into them. Another issue here is, this is based more on notions/desire for control than logical reasoning. You simply feel safer, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are any safer. It's simply a belief not backed up by fact. We trust computers to make hearts beat and keep people alive. We trust them to fly planes. We trust them to pilot space probes in complicated courses from one celestial body to another where the slightest mistake, however miniscule, can bring doom. We trust them to pilot our missiles. We trust them with all sorts of things. Driving really isn't that big of a leap in tech. We just simply need to perfect their input, that is sensing the road, signs, and objects and recognizing what they are. We already have facial recognition, there already is an app where you can do an image search...so they can recognize images. There's even an app that translates text, even handwritten text.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to take a nap on a self driving car any time soon. I get and understand the apprehension about them. I would settle for drive assist for the time being. However, it is coming and it won't represent certain doom at all. Which goes back to Womble's point about losing jobs related to driving to automated transports...It's the thing (among others that Womble and I have pointed multiple times) that protectionists ignore or don't realize. Atomization is bringing an end to the jobs protectionists are so fond of.

[Annoyed]

The problem is, humans crash. Driverless cars have yet to cause an accident. They've been crashed into, but that was the fault of the human crashing into them. Another issue here is, this is based more on notions/desire for control than logical reasoning. You simply feel safer, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are any safer. It's simply a belief not backed up by fact.

I beg to differ. But I will admit I'm a special case. (shush, jelgate)

I have been riding and working on motorized vehicles since the age of 5. I started AMA sanctioned motocross racing by the age of 10 or 11. For me, motor vehicles are as second nature as breathing. My parents did this with my siblings as well. As a result, all of us have excellent skills behind the wheel. You never forget skills learned that young. And in hindsight, it's something else I have to thank them for.

Do you really think a computer is a better driver than I am?

Yes, I'm a special case. But even for the average motorist, I think the ability to think, the human mind's ability to improvise in a pinch gives us a huge advantage. If cybernetics eventually develop to the level of something like ST:TNG's Data, yeah, I might rethink this. But until the day comes that machines can think, as humans can, I don't want them controlling 2 ton motorized missiles.

[aretood2]

I beg to differ. But I will admit I'm a special case. (shush, jelgate)

I have been riding and working on motorized vehicles since the age of 5. I started AMA sanctioned motocross racing by the age of 10 or 11. For me, motor vehicles are as second nature as breathing. My parents did this with my siblings as well. As a result, all of us have excellent skills behind the wheel. You never forget skills learned that young. And in hindsight, it's something else I have to thank them for.

Do you really think a computer is a better driver than I am?

Yes, I'm a special case. But even for the average motorist, I think the ability to think, the human mind's ability to improvise in a pinch gives us a huge advantage. If cybernetics eventually develop to the level of something like ST:TNG's Data, yeah, I might rethink this. But until the day comes that machines can think, as humans can, I don't want them controlling 2 ton motorized missiles.

Tell me, have you ever gone on your regular commute, and before you know it you made it home/to work and can't actually remember yourself consciously telling your self to turn here, stop there, slow down for the person merging on your lane and so on? A lot of the technology already exists. Driving really isn't that complicated. Yes, it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if someone told you when you were 15 years old that you could use a phone to buy a plane ticket at an affordable price, pay your bills without speaking to anyone, take amazing colored digital images, use voice commands to set up your calendar, make search inquiries, find out the weather almost a week in advance with moderate reliability, and have a face to face conversation in real time with high quality with someone on the other side of the globe in only a few decades...what would you have said?

[Annoyed]

Tell me, have you ever gone on your regular commute, and before you know it you made it home/to work and can't actually remember yourself consciously telling your self to turn here, stop there, slow down for the person merging on your lane and so on? A lot of the technology already exists. Driving really isn't that complicated. Yes, it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if someone told you when you were 15 years old that you could use a phone to buy a plane ticket at an affordable price, pay your bills without speaking to anyone, take amazing colored digital images, use voice commands to set up your calendar, make search inquiries, find out the weather almost a week in advance with moderate reliability, and have a face to face conversation in real time with high quality with someone on the other side of the globe in only a few decades...what would you have said?

Once, back in the mid 70's, I traveled approx. 30 miles on a freeway without conscious knowledge of it.
To this day, I have no idea what happened. I was suddenly 30 miles out from where I had been, on the same freeway. It could not have been effects of alcohol, I had not yet acquired a taste for it. Hadn't even started smoking at that time.
I was driving a temperamental '60's era muscle car at the time, and I had traveled the entire time on a freeway, presumably 60-ish MPH or so, so I certainly had the ability to drive; I wasn't screwed up. But I have no memory at all of that 30 min. or so.

Which is in stark contrast to how I drive. When I'm behind the wheel, I enjoy focusing upon the task at hand; controlling the vehicle, keeping tabs on the vehicles around me, planning escape routes as well as paths around slower drivers. It's kinda my "zone" so to speak. So how I could have gone 30 miles with no memory of it is a complete mystery to me.

[thekillman]

Pray tell, what do you think (if anything) should get DONE TO those news stations/papers who DO get caught making fake news?

We've been talking about that in the past page or so. But it's hardly the news stations and papers, the internet is full of fake news and half-baked truths. Yet, it's clear that Annoyed doesn't think them accountable. So should we heavily punish the few legitimate newssites out there and let the internet take over entirely? That would just remove the shred of credible information left.

Furthermore, so far news outlets seem to do it themselves pretty well, suspending people for mistakes and all that.

I agree. i am tired of the whole "Regime change/nation building crapola.. JUST GO IN and blast the enemy away, then leave...

And Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of why that doesn't work. As the US troops march out of the front of the building, local terrorists will hang the flag at the back.

As long as its her OWN money (like when she does it on her show) she is using, i am ok with that. OI WHERE is mine!

You do realize that the car is counted as income and so taxed? Quite a few people who got that car just didn't accept it because it would cost too much. It sounds good on paper, but if you do the math it's not all that beneficial unless you already drove a similar car.

Very good point. And one i have long said.. IF we were not so quick to get "UP IN everyone else's business" maybe they would be happier with what we DO do..

Well, i think a few interventions did more harm than good. Some of it's been plain hypocritical (Osama Bin Laden was armed and trained by the CIA), some of it pretty good. Seems to me that if there was a bit more thinking, and a better strategy, then with fewer interventions you could do much more. Because so far middle-eastern results have been only steps backwards, while the arab spring is pretty much an arab autumn now.

But wait. The left railed about how POOR of a candidate trump was, cause he had nO experience. Neither does Oprah.. SO WILL they rail about how unqualified She is? OR cause she is THEIR pick, she's all good..?

Seems like some of them think that the best way to fight trump, a guy not elected for competence or major policy, is to elect a likeable person who is basically the opposite personality of Trump.

Though don't read too much into it. It was something put forward on twitter, and it's hardly the first (and certainly won't be the last) time that someone considered presidency without actually running. As mentioned earlier, The rock also was in the news a while back because he was considering.

Personally i am surprise 'who is marrying whom' being such a big deal is bunk.. WHY should we care who "HARRY" is marrying?

Some people see royalty as sort of the face of their country. In that sense, not wholly unlike the US president. Or any president.

Isn't that kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water??

No, not really. It's no different than, say, the side-effect of some drugs. If i needed a cure for cancer, then i wouldn't complain about a headache as a side-effect. On the other hand, if i took a pill for headaches, i'd be very angry if my hair fell out. (though it would save me time shaving).

The problem i have with Trump's twitter is that Twitter is opaque about what it does, maintains a ton of different standards, and doesn't really do anything about twitter-based abuse, fake news, propaganda and terrorism. But it does ban people for minor incidents. Yet it's also not like telephone networks, since it doesn't just carry the message. Although to be fair, it may be a good solution to make it more like a telephone network, by eradicating everything not directly servicing communication. Although, by then you don't have anything like twitter left.

Lastly, Twitter never turned a profit, yet Trump is giving it massive amounts of attention and so there's definitely a monetary aspect to Twitter's decisions. Even if he were a completely normal stable person, it would still be of considerable importance what such a fictive person would say and do, since it could easily reveal important plans or goals.

Cosby went to court. Spacey ADMITTED to his wrong doing (so did frankin and weinstein).. There fore they are not innocent by their OWN admission.. Moore on the other hand, had some of the evidence against him debunked..

The other night's local news had a piece about how a # of local construction companies are having a HARD time getting qualified builders, stonemasons, welders etc.. IMO that is all cause few people, these days, seem to GO through the effort to GET those certifications..

True, but remember that most of those jobs were hit incredibly hard by the '08 crisis. It's only been a few years since construction came out of it's lull, and i know at least two people who were trained to work in construction but switched jobs because there was no work for them.

It simply wasn't a good decision to become a welder, builder, stonemason in the past 6 or so years.

And who do we blame when Driverless cars start crashing?

Nobody knows. It's probably the biggest hurdle to driverless cars. But even so, that may not mean as much as you think, since technically companies could just install all the normal stuff on a car, sell it as a normal car with "daily task assist" and have the car do 99% of the driving.

Then, all the truck companies can copy bridge watchers and just install a main room with big screens, put 1 guy to keep an eye on 100 autonomous trucks and so have the legal aspect covered.

or, they'll think of way smarter solutions than this.

[Annoyed]

But wait. The left railed about how POOR of a candidate trump was, cause he had nO experience. Neither does Oprah.. SO WILL they rail about how unqualified She is? OR cause she is THEIR pick, she's all good..?

Of course she is.

Really, I have no problem if the Dems choose to run Oprah in 2020. They will simply be handing the election to Trump or Pence. The vast majority of males that I know and many women as well dismiss Oprah as just a daytime talk show host, right up there with Dr. Phil or the crew from The View. Here's a hint for the Democrats. Working class people, at least males, have very little respect for these shows or the people on them.

As long as its her OWN money (like when she does it on her show) she is using, i am ok with that. OI WHERE is mine!

What makes you think she'll use her own money? How long have Democrats been buying votes by handing out goodies paid for by working taxpayer?

Who would ever get into a trade deal that didn't benefit THEM??

The United States. We've done so many times. Our leaders (both parties) frequently make choices that are contrary to our best interests. I don't think it's stupidity as much as having been bought and paid for by big business. Consider NAFTA and the other *AFTAS. Whom do they benefit? Corporate interests, or the interests of the working people? 'Nuff said.

The other night's local news had a piece about how a # of local construction companies are having a HARD time getting qualified builders, stonemasons, welders etc.. IMO that is all cause few people, these days, seem to GO through the effort to GET those certifications..

This is the result of the education industry very successfully overselling the value of its products. Recall the 1980's, when everybody and his mother went out and got MBA's? This was almost as big a fad as the Pet Rock was. Skilled labor that did not require payment of dues to the educational system was severely devalued in this society.
What young skull of mush is going to choose a low-paid, low-respect job like a tradesman, welder or such in that environment?

Couldn't obama's handing over BILLIONS to our enemy (Iran) have been seen as high treason? And if not, what then would Trump have to do, to qualify?

The LSoS (Lying Sack of Shiznit) should have been impeached for many reasons. His choice to pick and choose what laws to enforce, and stating that he wouldn't enforce certain immigration-related laws would do for starters.
But of course, this never happened, even after the Republicans took Congress. The LSoS's skin color was an impenatrable shield; anyone who even thought about bringing impeachment articles would have been mercilessly painted as a racist bigot by the media, ending their careers

And who do we blame when Driverless cars start crashing?

This is going to be a legal nightmare. When a driverless car screws up and causes an accident, who is liable? The guy who was reading his paper while the car drove him to work? The manufacturer of the vehicle? (Hint, it won't be them, remember, laws are written by very well-to-do lawyers, and they're not gonna write the laws so that the manufacturers are liable, they have a lot of money to see to that)

Oh, and regarding another of your posts...

Trying to be polite. BUT i see that is almost a foreign concept around here..

You were barbecued 30 seconds after you walked in here. You expect politeness?

[Annoyed]

We've been talking about that in the past page or so. But it's hardly the news stations and papers, the internet is full of fake news and half-baked truths. Yet, it's clear that Annoyed doesn't think them accountable. So should we heavily punish the few legitimate newssites out there and let the internet take over entirely? That would just remove the shred of credible information left.

Furthermore, so far news outlets seem to do it themselves pretty well, suspending people for mistakes and all that.

Who said they're not accountable? They are accountable to their readers or audience. If their audience decides they are not to be believed, they will lose that audience and go the way of the dinosaur.