The Political Discussion Thread

[Womble]

I'm hoping that we really aren't stupid enough to allow driverless cars.

Allow driverless cars? As in you are hoping that your favorite economic actor - the federal government - will outlaw them? Would it be constitutional?

The obvious irony aside, what do you think such an attempt to legislate away technological progress could possibly accomplish? Other than imposing technological backwardness on America and setting it up for developmental delay as the rest of the world happily adopts automated transport?

[Womble]

This is the best one I've heard so far, I have to say but nope... we're not under NATO's protection. You do know where Belgium is situated, right? (just checking)

We're surrounded by France, Germany, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, and the North Sea -- who do we need to be afraid of?

I love that answer. The blind belief that nothing will ever happen because it's been a while since something happened.

Russia could march through Europe in a couple of weeks unless American troops get involved.

We've been part of France, Spain, Austria, The Netherlands, Germany, the Roman Empire.... we can take care of ourselves, and we have far more important things to spend our money on than the military.

Genuinely amused...

I don't remember if I told that story here before. Vasily Aksenov, a dissident writer exiled from the USSR for overly subversive books, once attended a Slavic literature conference in the Netherlands at the height of the Cold War. The Western Slavists were mostly left-wing, pro-Soviet folks and members of assorted peace moments. One of them gave a speech along the lines of your posts - that Western Europe should not fear being conquered by the USSR, because no matter who ruled their countries, little would have changed for the people; they would still go to work every day and drink beer in the pubs in the evening. To which Aksenov responsed that they were delusional; had the Netherlands been conquered by the Communists, they would've had the same chronic shortages of beer as the USSR itself.

[thekillman]

Which is why i would LOVE for a way to criminally charge those who MAKE those bots.

That's probably impossible. it's not that hard to set up a script to pick a pre-generated message from a list and post it. Nor is it hard to distribute such scripts. You'd basically have to put surveillance on everyone with basic coding capabilities.

On the other hand, we can tell that thousands of twitter accounts more or less simultaneously start tweeting about controversial topics, and solely that.

I love that answer. The blind belief that nothing will ever happen because it's been a while since something happened.

Not sure what you would expect belgium to do against, say, france or germany? It's twice been used as a highway for invasion. If a new war broke out, then unless it got invaded by the Netherlands or Luxembourg, it would stand no chance. And right now, those are probably it's greatest partners. Not that those two countries are terribly big, powerful, and would stand a chance against any medium-sized country with reasonable firepower (e.g. germany, france, UK). Last war the Netherlands fought lasted 4-5 days, ended in total defeat, and saw barely any fighting. Just the germans flattening a few major cities with bombers. I don't recall Luxembourg doing anything, though they could probably hit the capital from outside it's borders with generic artillery.

For the small ones in Europe, NATO is their best bet against large and powerful external forces like Russia. They're trying to get the EU more united, but that's a long and tough road, while russia's been gladly attempting (and somewhat succeeding) at trying to tear it apart. Separately, Europe is dogfood. Together, it's a superpower.

I mean, ever noticed that all the far-righters seem to admire putin? Seems like someone's getting moscow money.

[Annoyed]

Allow driverless cars? As in you are hoping that your favorite economic actor - the federal government - will outlaw them? Would it be constitutional?

The obvious irony aside, what do you think such an attempt to legislate away technological progress could possibly accomplish? Other than imposing technological backwardness on America and setting it up for developmental delay as the rest of the world happily adopts automated transport?

Technically speaking, you're correct. We probably can't outlaw them, any more than we can outlaw dirt bikes and other off-road vehicles. But their usage would be limited to private property, with the permission of the landowner.

It is clearly established that using a motor vehicle on a public highway is not a right, it is a privilege. For example, this is how govt. can require that they meet emissions standards in order operate on public highways. We could just as easily require a human driver.

As far as what is to be gained, I think that would be obvious, public safety.

I don't care how smart your computer is, at our current level of tech. development, I do not think that any computer can be prepared for the practically unlimited sets of circumstances that can arise on a highway. A computer can't respond to anything it has not been programmed to respond to, and there is no way any programmer could anticipate all of the possible circumstances that can arise on the road. Whereas a human at least has the ability to think; to come up with a possible solution to what he hasn't seen before. We may not always come up with a successful solution, but we can at least try.

[thekillman]

I don't care how smart your computer is, at our current level of tech. development, I do not think that any computer can be prepared for the practically unlimited sets of circumstances that can arise on a highway.

It doesn't really have to. In most circumstances, getting the car to a safe stop is sufficient.

Besides, it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be better than a human, and considering that a computer can calculate much faster than a human, remember more driving scenarios than a human, and can react about a hundred times faster than a human, odds are it'll win out soon.

[Falcon Horus]

Okay, final attempt to get it all in this one post...

Well, you can't have a finger in every pie without getting dirty fingers. The US likes to get involved everywhere, but that inevitably means some will be happy, and some will not.

Shouldn't that be sticky fingers.

How would you like it if the censors, whatever platform it is, were inherently biased to the right, rather than the left? Would you still approve of that censorship if the people you agree with were the ones being censored?

Does Net Neutrality ring a bell?

It means everyone can be as loud and stupid as they want, both sides get equal opportunity to spout their ideologies. But when someone decides to take that off the table, like say in the US, companies leaning whichever way can f.e. block left/right leaning websites, websites they don't agree with, slow internetconnection down to newssites but not to others. The more you pay, the faster your connection.

I'm sure, that'll be a hoot if it ever comes to that.
Though it seems some folks are fighting back to get it re-instated.

Right this very moment, are you being shut up by anyone? Not allowed to read the papers you want to read? Say what you want to say? Anyone hampering down on your rights? Are you being censored?

I agree. Europe for centuries had colonies in damn near 1/3rd the world.. So they have imo NO leg to stand on when calling out the US.

Err... you do know where most Americans hail from, right?

*snort*

Why should every trade deal or agreement be for the benefit of the USA?
Why should everything benefit the USA?

#MAGA

An easier solution would be to make it easier to retrain...I mean eventually, outsourcing or not, all of those jobs are going to disappear. What then?

Over here, it's nearly mandatory for every 50+ employee when they get fired or their job goes away, to get some retraining and guidance to find something else, either within the same company or somewhere else. And the company they are employed at has to provide the means for it.

Everyone who looses their job because of being fired, or because of budget-cuts or lay-offs or whatever else, get ample opportunity to retrain at lower cost, either at specialized centers or at community colleges, or eveningschool. Basically, it's what I did after failing university. I took a one-year course, at lower cost and without loosing my unemployment benefits, to train as a graphic designer. And while I didn't work as one at first, I can use those skills now to enhance and grow in my job as a document designer.

I'm not talking about people whose circumstances make it difficult to train, which might be made easier. I'm talking about those who cannot be retrained; they just don't have the mental chops for it. There are an awful lot of people who fit that category in this country. As I said, college is not for everyone. Many folks can't pass it.

That's BS. And who says retraining is at colleges only.

Plenty of retraining done in centers aimed at retraining people, or in evening school.

She's seriously thinking about it, and the most recent articles about her saying so, are not the only ones. She's mentioned it several times before. So, this time, she might be truly serious.

Here's an opinion piece from the USA Today why Oprah should not run for president. She could run but why she shouldn't run: Oprah 2020: Do we need another glitzy amateur in office?

Can't judge a book by its cover, so stop judging people by their skin color/type, too.

I see people. Not colors, or sizes or religious symbols or whatever else. People.

And I never look at people directly and I still see people.

No, I meant your actual posts / replies ~ on-going conversations. Not the zillion details in your endless "factchecking, researching, listings" research. Perhaps a better term is the *tone* that the receiver seems to think is being set by the sender of the conversation.

I can't help that you read things the way you read things. Or that I write the way I write -- do you want me to add closed caption? You know [sarcasm], [irony], [serious posting], [research coming], ... seriously, this is the political thread. Usually posts are meant to be serious. And yes, we generally don't stay serious long enough to merit this an absolute serious thread. Too many tinfoil hats going around at times.

If you (FH) failed to finish reading or watching the video, then the ball is in *your* court for a lacking further details. Again, Meghan's video revealed about her half-n-half blended mixture of DNA backgrounds. The proof is in the video pudding, so to speak. I did NOT make the video.

I never watched the video cause I'm not interested in what she has to say. I don't give a flying fig about Meghan's life or what she likes or doesn't like. I don't know her. Like I said, I never even heard of her until it came to light she was Prince Harry's girlfriend, now fiancée.

You (FH) have an amazing imagination, especially when you don't know all of the details going on in someone else's life (such as mine, for example..).

I generally come here to escape the crappy cards I've been dealt in life.

But how is speech free still, if only one side seems to continually get silenced.

Both sides are guilty of silencing the other side at whatever point in time, you just have to want to see it.

OR if you really loath them that much, just quit.

Venting about work doesn't automatically mean you hate the place.

Since humans crawled out of caves, i think societies have ALWAYS had "an elite class" and always will.

Technically speaking, early humans walked out of their caves but indeed.

...i just think its a good idea to NOT seat him and Mr Obama near one another.

Okay, now I want them to invite both. Just to see this.

True, he does seem to let his mouth flap before he's engaged his brain.

That's assuming he has a brain.

[Falcon Horus]

Nope, didn't work... ran over the character-limit again...

I wish he (Trump) would just shut the he** up and do what he was elected to do.

Not entirely sure he even knows what his job is.

I dunno if this one can or should blow over. Somebody wake up Pence.

Don't worry, sometimes next week he'll have tweeted something that'll make us forget about this one, and talk about that one.

Perhaps he should have responded by flying a confederate flag right beside a MAGA sign.

Or he could do nothing, and ignore it.
As he did.

What's the point anyway flying a confederate flag -- are you secretely a right-wing, white supremacy lover?

Garhkal, is that you?

You must have one skewed perception of things then. If anything, i feel hes STRENGTHENED our standing.

Rest of the world:




Yeah, no...

Next!

Other than imposing technological backwardness on America and setting it up for developmental delay as the rest of the world happily adopts automated transport?

I'm not a fan of the prospect either, but who knows where it could lead so have at it.

Russia could march through Europe in a couple of weeks unless American troops get involved.

I'm honestly more concerned with DumbTrump doing something incredibly stupid that'll be the end of us all, then Putin this very moment.

Seriously, we really don't worry about things like Russia coming with a military force or whatever. I got better things to do (like paying my speeding ticket -- woops).

[Annoyed]

It doesn't really have to. In most circumstances, getting the car to a safe stop is sufficient.

Besides, it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be better than a human, and considering that a computer can calculate much faster than a human, remember more driving scenarios than a human, and can react about a hundred times faster than a human, odds are it'll win out soon.

Perfect example. In many situations, hitting the brakes is the exact WRONG thing to do.

[Ian-S]

Depends on what you're braking to avoid.

[SoulReaver]

Seriously, we really don't worry about things like Russia coming with a military force or whatever. I got better things to do (like paying my speeding ticket -- woops).

si vis pacem para bellum

Putin's still the world's most powerful man (maybe tied with Xi)

Russia could march through Europe in a couple of weeks unless American troops get involved.

nuclear dissuasion, not effective then?

[Annoyed]

Depends on what you're braking to avoid.

Example: Sudden skid / loss of traction for whatever reason. Hitting the brakes will often make that far worse. Quite often, the best response to a skid is more power.

[Ukko]

Sooo trumps excuse for not visiting the UK

[thekillman]

Technically speaking, early humans walked out of their caves but indeed.

Technically the whole cavemen thing isn't really true. Sure, humans lived in caves, but they lived everywhere else too. Caves just preserved things better, so when they found a bunch of ancient drawings etc in caves they called them cavemen. But really, humans were all over the place.

Here's an opinion piece from the USA Today why Oprah should not run for president.

well, maybe the USA could reform the presidency to be more of a symbolic figure?

Example: Sudden skid / loss of traction for whatever reason. Hitting the brakes will often make that far worse. Quite often, the best response to a skid is more power.

ABS, traction control.

[BlowitUpistus]

This is a long one so i am separating it into 3 posts..

Not have a unstable person in charge.

Some things are more important than politics

What describes trump as being unstable?? That he speaks his mind without a filter?

I think the point was that it isn't a thing that the left does exclusively. That the right is just as guilty. "It's only free speech if it agrees with me" isn't exclusive to just one end of the spectrum.

That might be true Mr Tood, but we on the right don't seem to resort to violence to stop views we disagree with.. NOR do we willfully censor it out.

OR AT least not to what i've seen over my 30+ years of being an adult.

also isn't the PO(TU)S trying to silence the latest book against him?
he might as well say he wants to abolish the 1st amendment

If someone is writing a book about me containing quotes i never gave permission for, why SHOULDN'T i be allowed to get it silenced?
AND HOW is wanting to do that, wanting to abolish the 1st amendment?

If Hillary Clinton lost the "popular vote" by 50 or 3,000 or 3 million votes or whatever... but WON by electoral college vote ---- Then Hillary Clinton would have become our President...That in itself would have been the END of all debates and tough noogies to Donald Trump or whoever else would have been the opposing candidate.

If that situation had ever come into existence, then the opposing party (Republican or Independent/whatever) would have simply conceded and let go (some might complain, but not as fiercely demanding as the current Democratic party is doing)-- with all potential future complaints dropped.

What gets ME about all of this, is how the left seemed to SLAM trump for his comments of "Will you accept the result, "NO"... WHEN they seem to be the ones NOT DOING WHAT they slammed trump for!

Doesn't anyone see the hypocrisy and double standard going on here?

In the past 10 years, all i've seen from many on the left is nothing BUT double standards. Take the recent Trump ban. How the left in CA railed against it, saying thats racist etc. BUT THEN THEY go on to BAN state workers traveling to Conservative states, or Banning paying for schools to travel...

I seriously doubt Hilary would have started war with Russia. Democrats tend to starve the military. For ex:, late 1970's after 4 years of president peanut farmer, a rescue mission for 79 US hostages held by Iran failed; the helicopters fell out of the sky due to lack of maintenance. After 8 years of the former sorry excuse for an occupant of the White House, there are readiness issues in some areas today.

Wasn't she the one who PUSHED to intervene in Lybia? And tried to do the same iirc for Syria??

"Never underestimate the power of a woman" -- including that of Hillary Clinton.

Don't forget the phrase "Hell has no fury like a woman scorned!"

Now that said, i don't think she would have gone for the nuclear option, but she imo WOULD have pushed for conventional war..

It's quite interesting that in the entire world, nobody decided to copy the american system. But yea, the issue is simple: changing the system would require a massive amount of power for a long time, and most politicians would rather use that to cram their policies through than to change the way people vote, no matter how useful this could be on the long run.

And in how many countries, is their idea of the public voting "VOTE FOR ME OR DIE"??

The point is that most people didn't vote for him. hell, the combined votes of hilllary and trump (60mil each) makes up about a third of the country. Hence, only a relatively small group put him in office, which is the answer to the point. Sure he won, but it's fantasy to say that this is the will of the people, a phrase which only seems to mean "whatever i say the people mean".

True, compared to some other countries, our "Participation levels" in our natl elections is poor. BUT i would rather that, than madate people vote..

Nobody in the world spends as much on military as the USA. it takes the 5 or 6 next spenders to match. You could literally cut it by 75% and you'd still be spender no1.

BUT how many other countries does as much as we do? In 99% of the world's natl disasters, which country darn nearlly always is first to render aid? THE US..

As to the alternatives, did everyone conveniently forget the primaries? Because ask trump voters and it seems that nobody remembered that there were a ton of other candidates.

He beat out 17 other folks, many of which imo were NOT republicans, but democrats in disguise..

Any citizen who wishes to do so has the undeniable right to register to vote and follow through by voting. That right is guaranteed. And there are more than enough public minded groups that offer assistance to those that need help with transportation to the pols or some other difficulty.

And IMO that should STAY a privilage of being a citizen. NOT extended to every tom, dick and harry that comes to this country.

Would you rather make voting mandatory, taking the choice of "none of the above" away from me? Face it, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

From reading back 45+ pages, there are some who feel it should be made mandatory.

And aside from the occasional $800 hammer issue, I consider that money well spent.

I don't. Looking at a # of the new 'Whizbang" toys we have gotten, i just don't feel they were worth the Billions we spent..

[BlowitUpistus]

Part two of three..

I'm sorry, Annoyed has stated MANY times to let people say what they want, and let others determine it's value. I am merely doing what he has asked me to do, listen to what he says, and judge it on it's merits.
If he cannot handle that (which, by the way I think he can), perhaps he should consider changing his stance.

And iMO that is how it should be. IF you demand X, and someone DOES X, then you have no reason to complain!

They won't. But let me ask you, what do you know of my religion?

No idea, BUT if its not the all mighty spaghetti monster, you are doing it wrong

In 18 years, only two presidential elections have been determined by the EC, remind me which way they favoured.

Both were republican won. BUT both were hotly contested by the dems.. Remember that whole "hanging chad fiasco''

Hillary may have rigged the primary vote, trump rigged the national vote. Hillary's misdeeds affect her party, trumps affect your entire nation.

How exactly did trump Rig the national vote??

Then perhaps we should do a better job scoping the mission of our military. We don't have hostile governments on either of our borders, so we have no reason to spend more than the next ~10 countries combined.

So you don't see NK, China, Iran and Russia as a big threat then?

so, people's thoughts on merican democracy once again under attack?
rigged votes & Govt stepping in to undermine the will of the People & steal an election
(this time in Virginia)

Isn't that the state who's law says "If the vote is tied, then it goes to a lottery to pick the winner"?? HOW is that stealing the vote?

What, Roy Moore? He whined about vote recounts but the local authority slapped him down, certifying his opponent the winner 3 hours later. That's a done deal. The voters tossed him out, and out he went.

And if you note, ALL those accusers and stories about him, seemed to disappear VERY QUICKLY..

Don't get me wrong, I don't want isolationism either. Just respect other countries' sovereignty and make other powers carry their own weight. For example, I'd start by leaving Latin America. Set up a military alliance with the friendliest countries, train for co-operationality between our respective forces and be able to use each other's facilities as needed and only act in cooperation with other countries, never alone. The OAS would work fine with setting up that system, and it would be a lot cheaper than what we have now. Then slowly build that system in other countries.

I agree with getting out of the UN, turning back our commitment to Nato (and making them carry more of the burden) and Latin America..

I would also like to see us scale back, way back, in the Middle East. Terrorists (the mostly political ones, not the world jihadist ones like ISIS) only really hate us because we are all up in their business.

BUT this i disagree with. IMO pulling our military outl, would be handing the terrorists WHAT THEY WANT...

There is an alternative though...sensible free trade, diplomatic relationships, reciprocal aid, and mutual respect and cooperation

How much do we give n aid to so many countries? HOW MANY of them reciprocate when WE need aid? VERY few...

It`s a written communication board, our words are all we have. If someone cannot discuss something, what more do you want from the audience?

Free pizza and beer to watch it all!

Or the Christian Caliphate, or any other religion.

What Christian Caliphate?

Sure, there is corruption, and it should be dealt with, but as you have brought religion here, how about the inherent corruption of a One God World?

Especially one that still has too damn many kiddy diddlers!

The entire EU only provides 30%. Japan is about 10%. That's a hell of a lot of money flowing from us to an organization that far too often is just a U.S. haters club. Just as the influence of various countries should reflect their physical power in the real world, that influence should also be proportional to the financial contributions made by various nations.

Hence why i feel we should leave..

I've always wondered what might have happened had Berlin been nuked instead of Japan if they had the bombs say a year earlier

Same here. Or if Germany was the one who GOT the nuke first and used it.. BUT there are a # of novelists out there who love doing that sort of "alternate history" fiction..