The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

FCC just shot net neutrality in the head, well done.

Yeah, I'm not so fond of that repeal either. But it's not as if we have ever had true neutrality anyway.
For example, VOIP traffic has been given priority a long time via Q.o.S. tagging for a long time, for the simple reason it doesn't work without it. If you want true neutrality, no traffic should be prioritized for any reason. If that means VOIP phones go away, so be it.

[Ian-S]

Oh, and another point. Since when is the simple word of an accuser enough enough to trash someone's reputation?

Since it became so easy and instant to call upon the court of public opinion via social media.

Fancy a promotion? Simple stir up crap about your boss on Twitter and the multinational will sack him on the spot to avoid bad publicity generated by the thing going viral.

[Falcon Horus]

Delayed reply means I probably can't remember why I hit multiquote on yesterday's scroll through the thread, but here goes... Also, seems ages I've been in here.

Europe was fighting all the time for thousands of years, but since the EU we've been having a peace streak. ~40 more years and it'll be the longest era of major peace in europe since probably the Roman Empire.

Notwithstanding the Yougoslavian war in the nineties. It was in Europe but not all of Europe.
Generally yes, we're doing quite alright in that area -- for now.

There's no such thing as a free meal: either pay a small price for peace or a big price for war.

What I meant to say, in this regard, was that the USA shouldn't pretend it isn't responsible for a lot of the mess, similar to European countries, and then expect the rest to clean up the mess or, in this case, deal with the millions of people displaced from their homes. Either take responsibility for the actions done, or work towards preventing the action to happen.

Don't go in guns blazing if you do not want to have to deal with the fall-out.

One of us isn't on the same page.. The assertion was that if Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital, it would spark a war which would generate refugees, which someone seemed to expect the US to take in and pay for because small European countries didn't have the resources (or didn't want to expend them on that) I responded that whoever wants the refugees taken in should put their money where their mouth is and take them in themselves.

Yes, because the US had nothing to do with it. Nothing... not a thing... hands are clean.

That's the problem with your country. Guns blazing but when the consequences need to be dealt with, responsibility is not in the vocabulary.

The US would be the direct, responsible causative force, same as you have been for decades.

They make the mess, or help make the mess, or help escalate it... but when they have to chip in on the humanitarian side, they're suddenly no longer available.

So...how many Belgian troops are fighting ISIS?

From the website of defense:
(only available in French and Dutch, and since none you can read that -- I'll attempt a translation)

Mission against DAESH in 2018 (continued from 2017)
10 Belgian soldiers will help train Iraqis as part of operation Inherent Resolve.
95 others will train, advise and offer assistence to Iraqi units across the entire country.
30 soldiers will be dispatched to guard the Dutch fighter jets in Jordan.
2 are part of the NATO radar-unit who support the flight operations

Then there will be missions in Mali, in Central-Africa to combat piracy and illegal fishing. And missions at sea to clean up old seamines and explosives (in the Baltic region). In Afghanistan, there's the Resolute Support Mission, in Niger the Flintlock mission which is an American lead operation, support in Tunesia cause of terrorist threads, and we have 800 soldiers in the European Battle Group.

Anything else...?

However, I have no idea what you're trying to say...

A hundred to two hundred? That's cute.

How large do you think our army is?

The answer with approximate numbers:

Spoiler:

The Belgian Army has approx 32,000 soldiers in its ranks, of which approx. 1,500 are reserves.
We are also the only army in the world who are allowed to march through the streets of London wearing our weapons.

I'm sure the Kurds appreciate the gesture for that is all it can ever be. Personally, the US shouldn't move until EU commits some serious muscle to it.[/COLOR]

The US could shoot us all to kingdom come and still have missiles left for a second attempt, should anything have gone wrong the first time round.

The US is obsessed with its military spending and the size of its army.

Belgium spends less than 1.4% of its federal budget on defense.

I wonder what other countries would follow the US?

Poland followed -- re: Jerusalem.

And that's it.

I hear Erdogan would like the Muslim world to recognize East-Jerusalem as Palestine's capital though.

Like the French in Vietnam, we didn't go there because Vietnam had full sovereignty and the communists were trying to end that sovereignty...it's because Europe decided that non-European countries didn't need sovereignty and communists offered them the ever enticing and seductive promise of real independence and self rule.

Well, here you go... you and I learned something entirely different why the US thought to stick its nose into Vietnam, when the French asked for help after having fought a post-colonial war with the place.

Should not that country define its capital for itself? Most countries define their capital city on their own. Why does it even make a difference what we think? Israel should define that for itself.

Israel already did, but seeing as how half its neighbors don't even recognize it as a country, it doesn't matter what they say. The rest of the world sorta recognizes Israel as a country, and more recently Palestine as a would-be country which Israel doesn't recognize as such (or something).

Then there's that small snag that Jerusalem wasn't Israelean to begin with, but was annexed after the 6-day war, for which I refer to LtColCarter's post which explains that whole situation.

Nope. As I've said, I accept that there will always be fighting and squabbling there, due to the religious significance of the region. I don't pay a great deal of attention to the area.

Neither does Trump, I reckon.

But whatever the reason is, it really doesn't change the facts of the matter at all. The country should define its own capital, and the rest of the planet should accept that. Just as we define Washington, DC as our capital.

The rest of the planet knows "better".

If you don't know, you don't know fact's, and if you are unwilling to learn or accept your errors, you will never know a thing.

You know nothing, Jon Snow!

A good starting spot for the private, presidential spy agency he wants?

If Vlad can have his KGB of FSB, or whatever it is these days... then Trump should have his own SS... I mean spy agency.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a social media platform to want to prevent people from using it's platform to encourage violence and racism.

Nevermind it violates their rules, see below:

Hateful conduct policy
Freedom of expression means little if voices are silenced because people are afraid to speak up. We do not tolerate behavior that harasses, intimidates, or uses fear to silence another person’s voice. If you see something on Twitter that violates these rules, please report it to us.

How our policy works

Hateful conduct: You may not promote violence against or directly attack or threaten other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, or disease. We also do not allow accounts whose primary purpose is inciting harm towards others on the basis of these categories.

Examples of what we do not tolerate includes, but is not limited to behavior that harasses individuals or groups of people with:

violent threats; wishes for the physical harm, death, or disease of individuals or groups; references to mass murder, violent events, or specific means of violence in which/with which such groups have been the primary targets or victims;
behavior that incites fear about a protected group; repeated and/or or non-consensual slurs, epithets, racist and sexist tropes, or other content that degrades someone.

How our enforcement works

Context matters.
Some Tweets may seem to be abusive when viewed in isolation, but may not be when viewed in the context of a larger conversation. While we accept reports of violations from anyone, sometimes we also need to hear directly from the target to ensure that we have proper context.

The number of reports we receive does not impact whether or not something will be removed. However, it may help us prioritize the order in which it gets reviewed.

We focus on behavior.

We enforce policies when someone reports behavior that is abusive and targets an entire protected group and/or individuals who may be members.
This targeting can happen in any manner (for example, @mentions, tagging a photo, and more).

We have a range of enforcement options.

The consequences for violating our rules vary depending on the severity of the violation and the person’s previous record of violations. For example, we may ask someone to remove the offending Tweet before they can Tweet again. For other cases, we may suspend an account.

[Falcon Horus]

Splitting it up cause I'm probably hitting the max character count anyway otherwise...

Personally, I don't like the nation's business being conducted via social networking. It is beneath the dignity of the office, in my opinion.

Sorry, Trump has pretty much erased all dignity the office ever had.

So I can't really blame Trump for trying to bypass it to get his message out.

What message?

He lies more about things than the media has time to cook up in his place. Much like yourself, he's not big on facts.

But why do YOU want to silence him? What's wrong with letting him have his say, and let everyone decide the value of what is said on their own? If you think he's an idiot and want to ignore whatever he says, fine that is your right. But you want to prevent others from hearing his message as well.

I, for one, don't want him silenced cause everything he says can (and will) be used against him (in a court of law). We need him to rant (though preferably without starting a war) cause he looks like a petulant child every single time. His snowflake-level is off the chart.

What if Twitter was owned by people who backed Trump, and they banned Obama, Hillary or the Democrats in general? Same thing you're proposing, but in reverse. You still think it's a good idea?

You're missing the point, as is mentioned by others.

But no worries, your wish is granted now that the FCC has repealed Net Neutrality in the US. Before long, your ISP provider will slow down Twitter so much, it'll be impossible to read in the US.

Looking at them when transcribed is........ painful.

Braincells are sacrificed every single time.

Listening to them are painful as well

Can't stomach his voice so prefer not to if I can avoid it.

But they didn't vote in a pedophile

God will help hem anyway... Moore believes it.

For example, insulting someone via facebook is considered bullying these days, when in fact it is no such thing. Real, actual bullying requires physical contact in the real world, not possible in cyberspace.

Never heard of cyberbullying, have you?

What Is Cyberbullying
Bullying that takes place over digital devices like cell phones, computers, and tablets. Cyberbullying can occur through SMS, Text, and apps, or online in social media, forums, or gaming where people can view, participate in, or share content. Cyberbullying includes sending, posting, or sharing negative, harmful, false, or mean content about someone else. It can include sharing personal or private information about someone else causing embarrassment or humiliation. Some cyberbullying crosses the line into unlawful or criminal behavior.

The most common places where cyberbullying occurs are:
Social Media, such as Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter
SMS (Short Message Service) also known as Text Message sent through devices
Instant Message (via devices, email provider services, apps, and social media messaging features)
Email

Special Concerns
With the prevalence of social media and digital forums, comments, photos, posts, and content shared by individuals can often be viewed by strangers as well as acquaintances. The content an individual shares online – both their personal content as well as any negative, mean, or hurtful content – creates a kind of permanent public record of their views, activities, and behavior. This public record can be thought of as an online reputation, which may be accessible to schools, employers, colleges, clubs, and others who may be researching an individual now or in the future. Cyberbullying can harm the online reputations of everyone involved – not just the person being bullied, but those doing the bullying or participating in it.

Cyberbullying has unique concerns in that it can be:
Persistent – Digital devices offer an ability to immediately and continuously communicate 24 hours a day, so it can be difficult for children experiencing cyberbullying to find relief.

Permanent – Most information communicated electronically is permanent and public, if not reported and removed. A negative online reputation, including for those who bully, can impact college admissions, employment, and other areas of life.

Hard to Notice – Because teachers and parents may not overhear or see cyberbullying taking place, it is harder to recognize.

Laws and Sanctions
While all states have criminal laws that apply to bullying, not all have special statutes that apply to cyberbullying or bullying that takes place outside of school. Schools may take action either as required by law, or with local or school policies that allow them to discipline or take other action. Some states also have provisions to address bullying if it affects school performance. You can learn about the laws and policies in each state, including if they cover cyberbullying.

[Falcon Horus]

Okay, make that three...

Damn close election too.. But it doesn't seem to be close enough to trigger automatic recounts in that state. I hope Moore doesn't start whining about a recount demand. Which at this writing is what he seems to be preparing to do.

Oh, he's whining... whining up a storm too...

With the whole #MeToo thing, apparently a taboo was broken.

And it was Time's Person of the Year.

FCC just shot net neutrality in the head, well done.

Look to Portugal, where there is no net neutrality, to see what happens if your provider can make the rules.
Get ready to pay more for your websites, or be prepared to see your access to your favorite websites slowed to snail-speed. Waiting patiently for a website to load -- that's a death sentence for any website.

[LtColCarter]

Splitting it up cause I'm probably hitting the max character count anyway otherwise...



Sorry, Trump has pretty much erased all dignity the office ever had.



What message?

He lies more about things than the media has time to cook up in his place. Much like yourself, he's not big on facts.



I, for one, don't want him silenced cause everything he says can (and will) be used against him (in a court of law). We need him to rant (though preferably without starting a war) cause he looks like a petulant child every single time. His snowflake-level is off the chart.

*SNIP*

I just snipped for length. Just wanted to say I love your replies!

[Annoyed]

Never heard of cyberbullying, have you?

I've heard of it, but I simply don't accept it as bullying. You can't hit someone over the internet, and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.
The rest of the planet can redefine it however it wants to, just as it can jump off a bridge if it wants to.

That doesn't mean I have to jump.

[SoulReaver]

if Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital,

so what did he get from this? did he ask Netanyahu for anything in return? something that would benefit his people or at least his country? anything?
or was it a freebie? if so then your billionaire president's not much of a "businessman" is he

I hear Erdogan would like the Muslim world to recognize East-Jerusalem as Palestine's capital though.

that's the same ISIS sympathizing dictator who'd like to join the EU right?

[Womble]

Poland followed -- re: Jerusalem.

And that's it.

Also the Czech Republic, the Philippines and Russia.

Then there's that small snag that Jerusalem wasn't Israelean to begin with, but was annexed after the 6-day war, for which I refer to LtColCarter's post which explains that whole situation.

Tremendous ignorance here really.

Here's how it goes. Jerusalem was a majority-Jewish city in the 1940-s but with the world being the anti-Semitic mess that it was, the drafters of the 1947 partition gerrymandered Jerusalem together with Bethlehem and surrounding Arab villages into something by-definition unworkable that they called "corpus separatum". While it sounds like a medical term for a sexual pathology, it meant that the UN wanted Jerusalem to be governed by committee- namely the United Nations Trusteeship Council.

When the Arab armies attempted to destroy Israel upon declaration of independence, British-commanded Arab Legion of Jordan occupied the eastern part of Jerusalem and ethnically cleansed it, which is how eastern Jerusalem became "Arab". Israel, at great cost (the costliest battle of the war for Latrun and the building of a whole new road under constant artillery barrage), stopped the Arab Legion from taking over the entire city Synagogues were blown up by Jordan, Jewish gravestones from the Mount of Olives were used to build latrines, and any foreigner wishing to access the Wailing Wall or the Temple Mount had to present a certificate of Christian baptism to ensure they were not, Allah forbid, Jews sneaking in to pray. Not a squeak was heard from the UN and its committees regarding the whole corpus separatum thing until the Jordanians lost their part of Jerusalem in 1967, after another Arab attempt to destroy Israel - thereby betraying the fraudulent nature of the concept.

The most hilarious part is that the folks rooting for recognizing the eastern part of Jerusalem as the capital of "Palestine" are usually the same folks who turn rabid at the idea of recognizing the western part as the capital of Israel. There's not a shred of intellectual honesty or consistency to that position and the main argument in its favor is ad populum.

[Falcon Horus]

I've heard of it, but I simply don't accept it as bullying. You can't hit someone over the internet, and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.
The rest of the planet can redefine it however it wants to, just as it can jump off a bridge if it wants to.

That doesn't mean I have to jump.

I really think someone should cyberbully you, just so you get some idea of the thing.

Also the Czech Republic, the Philippines and Russia.

I think Poland didn't... but Czech Republic did, and I got confused. Then again, I haven't been paying attention to much of the news anyway, and have found that I kinda like it that way.

Except for the parts I see online cause it's the same **** every day, and just when you think it can't get worse, there's Trump making it worse.

The most hilarious part is that the folks rooting for recognizing the eastern part of Jerusalem as the capital of "Palestine" are usually the same folks who turn rabid at the idea of recognizing the western part as the capital of Israel. There's not a shred of intellectual honesty or consistency to that position and the main argument in its favor is ad populum.

Make Jerusalem a city-state like the Vatican and be done with it.

[jelgate]

I've heard of it, but I simply don't accept it as bullying. You can't hit someone over the internet, and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.
The rest of the planet can redefine it however it wants to, just as it can jump off a bridge if it wants to.

That doesn't mean I have to jump.

That's called denial

[Annoyed]

That's called denial

No, that's called seeing the pile of BS before I step in it.
Bullying is the big kid beating the crap out of the little kid because he wouldn't give him his lunch money, or for no reason at all. It requires physical contact. The only thing possible w/out physical contact is namecalling, verbal insults, gossip and such.
And there's an old saying which goes like "sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me".

It may not be pleasant to be the victim of such behavior, but it certainly doesn't rise to the level of severity that physical assaults do.
[edit]
You can see this "expanded definition" crap everywhere in our society. Employers call their employees "family", but we all know that is BS. Businesses call other companies which they have marketing arrangements with "partners".
Just using those two as an example, it devalues the meaning of terms when compared to real "family" or "partners".

This "cyberbullying" is just more of the same crap and I refuse to buy into it.[/edit]

[jelgate]

Science says otherwise. Despite your beliefs, psychology has facts it's real. But here, have a paddle for the river

[aretood2]

Yeah, I'm not so fond of that repeal either. But it's not as if we have ever had true neutrality anyway.
For example, VOIP traffic has been given priority a long time via Q.o.S. tagging for a long time, for the simple reason it doesn't work without it. If you want true neutrality, no traffic should be prioritized for any reason. If that means VOIP phones go away, so be it.

It's about websites...not VOIP traffic. Comcast can charge Netflix and arm and a leg so that it's own streaming services become more attractive. And guess what? Comcast, in the areas it exist, has very little in the way of competition. Charging websites like this is relatively new, which is why net neutrality is relatively new. But the GOP rather side with modern day versions of trusts and monopolies and oligopolies than with content creators and consumers.

Since it became so easy and instant to call upon the court of public opinion via social media.

Fancy a promotion? Simple stir up crap about your boss on Twitter and the multinational will sack him on the spot to avoid bad publicity generated by the thing going viral.

The same is true in reverse. Want to fire an employe? read his twitter...

What I meant to say, in this regard, was that the USA shouldn't pretend it isn't responsible for a lot of the mess, similar to European countries, and then expect the rest to clean up the mess or, in this case, deal with the millions of people displaced from their homes. Either take responsibility for the actions done, or work towards preventing the action to happen.

Like not taking the ex-Ottoman people's opinions into account when dividing up the original "Sick man of Europe" into random new countries?

Don't go in guns blazing if you do not want to have to deal with the fall-out.

Or randomly decide borders for other countries and expect everyone to stand idly while it all hits the fan.

Yes, because the US had nothing to do with it. Nothing... not a thing... hands are clean.

I have yet to see real European action.

That's the problem with your country. Guns blazing but when the consequences need to be dealt with, responsibility is not in the vocabulary.

Learned from the best

How large do you think our army is?

The answer with approximate numbers:

Spoiler:

The Belgian Army has approx 32,000 soldiers in its ranks, of which approx. 1,500 are reserves.
We are also the only army in the world who are allowed to march through the streets of London wearing our weapons.

Large enough to help mess up Africa, but not large enough to fix anything. Europeans really don't have any moral high ground here. Maybe if you were Costa Rican or Swiss or Maldivian, then you'd have some moral high ground.


The US could shoot us all to kingdom come and still have missiles left for a second attempt, should anything have gone wrong the first time round.

The US is obsessed with its military spending and the size of its army.

*cough*USSR*cough* I'm sure Southeast Asia appreciates American military spending when it comes to dealing with China.

Belgium spends less than 1.4% of its federal budget on defense.

Enough to mess up Africa...

Don't get me wrong though. I really don't mind Europe. It's just when Europe tries to pretend that it has the moral high ground that it gets me. Europeans can't just pretend the majority of the second half of the second millennium never happened when it wags its finger at the US for it's 150 years of nonsense.

No, that's called seeing the pile of BS before I step in it.
Bullying is the big kid beating the crap out of the little kid because he wouldn't give him his lunch money, or for no reason at all. It requires physical contact. The only thing possible w/out physical contact is namecalling, verbal insults, gossip and such.
And there's an old saying which goes like "sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me".

It may not be pleasant to be the victim of such behavior, but it certainly doesn't rise to the level of severity that physical assaults do.
[edit]
You can see this "expanded definition" crap everywhere in our society. Employers call their employees "family", but we all know that is BS. Businesses call other companies which they have marketing arrangements with "partners".
Just using those two as an example, it devalues the meaning of terms when compared to real "family" or "partners".

This "cyberbullying" is just more of the same crap and I refuse to buy into it.[/edit]

Other than the scars it leaves on people for life. The debilitating shame it causes.
Just because you claim to be 'thick skinned' doesn't mean that everyone is. The idea that words cause harm is a very ancient concept. It's...biblical. It's not new age hippie nonsense you seem to think it is.

[Womble]

I think Poland didn't... but Czech Republic did, and I got confused. Then again, I haven't been paying attention to much of the news anyway, and have found that I kinda like it that way.

Yet you're commenting?

Make Jerusalem a city-state like the Vatican and be done with it.

Governed by whom? Because the last time, governance by UN committee didn't work out all that well.