The Political Discussion Thread

[Skydiver]

Pure population would be best, But what is done quite often is to try and get 'creative' with district lines in such a way that certain races or ethnicities are always seen as minorities....so say you have 6 square blocks that are 90% minority. Instead of having that be one district, you cut it in half and merge it with two others and you end up with 3 districts that are 60% non-minority, 40% minority and then when you use the percentages of the districts to say 'x% of our town is minority', well no, it's not accurate, but it is for the district you just made wiht the ziggy saggy lines that splits a minority neighborhood in two.

or like you said, in the poorer part of town only have 3 polling stations for 60,000 people to visit, most of which work hourly wage jobs that do not allow time off to vote, while in the more affluent part of town have 6 polling stations for the same 60,000 people so the lines are half as long and these are people that probably work at a job that allows them time off to vote, and you've successfully suppressed a good chunk of those poorer voters while you've simultaneously made it easier for the more affluent voters to speak out.

Do something like htat enough times in enough places and you've successfully suppressed a chunk of your population and they don't even realize they've been suppressed.

For 2018, things like this might become more and more common, especially if you have any officials that enthusiastically get behind the 'purging of voter rolls'.

[Annoyed]

And here we have an example of gerrymandering that goes the other way.
This was Louise Slaughter's district for about 10 years.. notice it's drawn to include two primarily urban areas with a strip of sparsely populated boonies between them to connect the two cities.
Needless to say, she was unbeatable in this district.

[garhkal]

Err, because they did not? If I go poking around your house, and I find your stash of porn and release what I found to a 3rd party who paid me to do it, Am I getting that information -from you-?
Of course not. Republican never trumpers paid Fusion (an AMERICAN company) to investigate trump, they did not ASK the RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT. Fusion and Steele used Russian contacts to get information, sure, but these are not the same thing!!

Technically yes you are getting it from me, especially if you steal it.

Because it's an ongoing investigation? Also, I dunno what you are reading or watching, but the stuff about Donnie Junior has been -everywhere- It even makes our local news networks, so I don't even have to go looking for it. The stuff about Kushner -everywhere-.

Yes Don Jr is in the headlines, but what evidence is there he actually broke a law?

Why do they have to?

If they didn't have to honor an oath, what the hell was the point in PRESSURING Trump to sign said oath as well?

350 million, but why quibble
As for polling, they have targets they need to hit. they don't just talk to anyone they cold call, there are screening questions where if they have their quota of X person, they have to end the interview. I've done this kind of research before man and it's frustrating as hell when you get someone willing to talk, but you don't need what they say because of XYZ.

Which is why i don't really put faith in those polls showing "a majority of americans are displeased with trump" and the like,..

IT can also be argued that the election results are flawed and will continue to be so as those in power 'creatively' redraw district lines to gerrymander....basically rig the election by using statistics to make it impossible for some to ever be seen as a majority.

I agree. Once districts are drawn, it should be at a min, 10 years (OR A Significant increase in population) before they are even allowed to be redrawn.. If at all..

Even at the most basic, minor things like reducing the number of polling places in certain neighborhoods.

True that is flargged up..

I personally witnessed election officials trying to turn a person away because they had the 'wrong' ID.....they had a passport and the volunteers had only been trained to handle local drivers licenses and tried to tell the person to leave. What they should have done was given him a provisional ballot....really what they should have done was let him vote because a passport is a better ID than a local drivers license.

What the Fargib? A passport is a "Wrong ID". WHo the hell was that dunce of an official?

Which is another way to discourage voters, understaff certain polling places to make it harder for people to vote.

Strange, most places i have been at to vote, there were Plenty of staff, in some cases more than what should be needed.. 7 behind a desk checking people in verifying them against a registry (3 lines, 2 per line plus a supervisor), a dozen helpers to walk people to their booths, and 2 handing out stickers once done..

The easiest fix to -some- of that is to change the voting days to Saturday, and I don't think even our republican friends would argue that being a logical move.

OR make the day of voting a NO-work day (holiday)..
IMO you shouldn't HAVE TO pick between working that day or voting..

[Annoyed]

OR make the day of voting a NO-work day (holiday)..
IMO you shouldn't HAVE TO pick between working that day or voting..

How are you going to mandate that business give their workers that day off? And there are some jobs that can't be closed down, police, fire, etc.
I would suggest two election days, one during the week and one on the weekend, with the results of whichever occurs first kept top secret to prevent reports of day one from influencing the outcome of day two.

As far as districts, that's simple. A representative's district is a square centered around that representative's residence in the district. The size of his square by the number of people in it in proportion to the # of people in the state. An urban rep., in a densly populated area might only have a square a few blocks long, while a rural legislator's square in a sparsely populated region could easily go for miles. The goal would be for each legislator to represent an equal share of the state's population.

[Gatefan1976]

And here we have an example of gerrymandering that goes the other way.
This was Louise Slaughter's district for about 10 years.. notice it's drawn to include two primarily urban areas with a strip of sparsely populated boonies between them to connect the two cities.
Needless to say, she was unbeatable in this district.

No one brought up party.........

[Gatefan1976]

Technically yes you are getting it from me, especially if you steal it.

Are you seriously trying to compare theft to giving willingly?

Yes Don Jr is in the headlines, but what evidence is there he actually broke a law?

Oh I dunno, the LAW BOOKS?

If they didn't have to honor an oath, what the hell was the point in PRESSURING Trump to sign said oath as well?

They did, they did not kick him out when he got the nomination, they honoured the oath to accept whomever got the nomination.

Which is why i don't really put faith in those polls showing "a majority of americans are displeased with trump" and the like,..

What?

I agree. Once districts are drawn, it should be at a min, 10 years (OR A Significant increase in population) before they are even allowed to be redrawn.. If at all..

After the Census would be a good time.

True that is flargged up..

Yet it happens

What the Fargib? A passport is a "Wrong ID". WHo the hell was that dunce of an official?

A dunce, like most of them?

Strange, most places i have been at to vote, there were Plenty of staff, in some cases more than what should be needed.. 7 behind a desk checking people in verifying them against a registry (3 lines, 2 per line plus a supervisor), a dozen helpers to walk people to their booths, and 2 handing out stickers once done..

Where do you vote?

OR make the day of voting a NO-work day (holiday)..
IMO you shouldn't HAVE TO pick between working that day or voting..

No, you shouldn't.

[Annoyed]

No one brought up party.........

Skydiver's post certainly looked like was talking about alleged suppression coming from or to benefit the right. And in at least one situation, I agree, the R's in a local govt. were out of line.

Pure population would be best, But what is done quite often is to try and get 'creative' with district lines in such a way that certain races or ethnicities are always seen as minorities....so say you have 6 square blocks that are 90% minority. Instead of having that be one district, you cut it in half and merge it with two others and you end up with 3 districts that are 60% non-minority, 40% minority and then when you use the percentages of the districts to say 'x% of our town is minority', well no, it's not accurate, but it is for the district you just made wiht the ziggy saggy lines that splits a minority neighborhood in two.

or like you said, in the poorer part of town only have 3 polling stations for 60,000 people to visit, most of which work hourly wage jobs that do not allow time off to vote, while in the more affluent part of town have 6 polling stations for the same 60,000 people so the lines are half as long and these are people that probably work at a job that allows them time off to vote, and you've successfully suppressed a good chunk of those poorer voters while you've simultaneously made it easier for the more affluent voters to speak out.

Do something like htat enough times in enough places and you've successfully suppressed a chunk of your population and they don't even realize they've been suppressed.

For 2018, things like this might become more and more common, especially if you have any officials that enthusiastically get behind the 'purging of voter rolls'.

[Gatefan1976]

The only way you could view her post as meaning republican is if you accept that it is republicans who use ethnicity to draw districts.

Do you accept that?

[Gatefan1976]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-0...script/8773422

[Skydiver]

I never mentioned a party because either of them could do it. THat ax swings both ways.
This was the first year they demanded proof of ID to vote. The staff barely knew how to use the ipads they were using. They apparently had only been trained to scan the barcode on the back of the DL, they had no idea and apparently no training what to do with a passport. (the stats would be interesting but I'd bet a majority of US citizens do not hold passports).
There was another girl iwth a damaged DL, they were unsure what to do if they couldn't scan the barcode.

IT was like they were trained one way and one way only and had no idea what to do with any other option.
THe man holding the passport stayed and 'fought' to vote.....as in 'i'm entitled to vote, figure it out because i'm not leaving'.

ANd like I said, some had to leave because they couldn't wait. No idea if they came back after work.

There does need to be some accommodation for folks to vote. A non- work day.....well there is a point, some jobs never have a non-work day. Even on weekends there are people working 12 hour shifts (our local hospital runs 7-7 shifts).
Over two days? Making mail ballots more accessible? I'd imagine the 'prove you're entitled to vote' folks will fight that. Right now many sentiments seem to be 'how can we limit who votes' not 'how can we accommodate people voting'. The focus seems to be on making it harder, making it more challenging, having people prove that they should be allowed to vote, all of which are exclusionary attitudes. Not how to include people or how to get people involved, the focus is on how to keep people from voting.

[Annoyed]

The only way you could view her post as meaning republican is if you accept that it is republicans who use ethnicity to draw districts.

Do you accept that?

There have been instances where the R's have stepped over the line, some southeast US state closing offices where you could register in minority areas, so it's not unheard of, but they were slapped down by the courts, properly so. But I don't think it's a widespread conspiracy or similar.

[Gatefan1976]

There have been instances where the R's have stepped over the line, some southeast US state closing offices where you could register in minority areas, so it's not unheard of, but they were slapped down by the courts, properly so. But I don't think it's a widespread conspiracy or similar.

Should I take that as a yes?

[Skydiver]

At the end of the day, you're going to take it however you want.

[Gatefan1976]

At the end of the day, you're going to take it however you want.

I don't want to take him out of context. He made the leap to saying your post was about one party, and the only thing in your post that may have indicated that was you saying minorities. It's why it was a question, not a statement.

[Gatefan1976]

There does need to be some accommodation for folks to vote. A non- work day.....well there is a point, some jobs never have a non-work day. Even on weekends there are people working 12 hour shifts (our local hospital runs 7-7 shifts).
Over two days? Making mail ballots more accessible? I'd imagine the 'prove you're entitled to vote' folks will fight that. Right now many sentiments seem to be 'how can we limit who votes' not 'how can we accommodate people voting'. The focus seems to be on making it harder, making it more challenging, having people prove that they should be allowed to vote, all of which are exclusionary attitudes. Not how to include people or how to get people involved, the focus is on how to keep people from voting.

You might find this interesting:
https://aflcio.org/2016/11/5/know-yo...oyee-time-vote