The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

You just aren't getting it.
By the action of a minority of the population, a symbol of rebelliousness is being systematically deleted from our society.

No, you are not listening to Tood.
The original flag was what, rebellion against the US, the southern states wanting to keep slavery as a thing. Is that a good thing?
The resurgence of the Confererate flag was during the civil rights movement, to target the -same people-.
So, it is a symbol, then and now of oppression of the rights of others. It has no long rich history to be destroyed, it is what it was when it was made.
You want a flag for resistance against the overarching power of the government? Use the Gadsden flag.

You can't buy a "General Lee" toy for your kid anymore that has the flag on the roof, as it did in the series. This was a TV series, more than 30 years ago, and people are bellyaching about it.
The symbol is being removed from society as a result of the demands of a minority.
Which was the point of this discussion, the tyranny of the minority.

Back up that it is a minority.
Stats from 2015 put public sentiment across the US for maintaining the flag at 19% across the country, so 81% for removing it. Which one is the minority again?

[aretood2]

You just aren't getting it.
By the action of a minority of the population, a symbol of rebelliousness is being systematically deleted from our society. You can't buy a "General Lee" toy for your kid anymore that has the flag on the roof, as it did in the series. This was a TV series, more than 30 years ago, and people are bellyaching about it.
The symbol is being removed from society as a result of the demands of a minority.
Which was the point of this discussion, the tyranny of the minority.

What minority? As GF points out, it's hardly a minority.

[Starsaber]

Isn't that up to the individual? Why should society get to make the choice for him?

Many of the situations I've seen recently regarding Confederate symbols have been about their placement on public land. Society has every right to decide what we want on land that belongs to society as a whole.

[Coco Pops]

I remember seeing a couple interviewed on TV for having a Nazi flag waving in their front yard.

Amusing to watch them fake ignorance when the reporter told them what the flag was.

"We didn't know it was that" like hell they didn't.

Could anyone be that stupid?

Well looks like you can actually be that ignorant. Look here

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+in+front+yard

Lots and lots of that.

[Gatefan1976]

For a different part of the world.
Hassan Rouhani has held on to the presidency of Iran, which in my relatively uninformed opinion is about as good as a result the world could of got given his opposition. It remains to be seen if anything will come of it, as he at least pays lip service to reform. So, cautiously optimistic?
Thoughts anyone? (esp womble)

[Womble]

It's not a good result, it's a predictable result. Iran is not an actual democracy; no candidate that hasn't been vetted by the supreme leader and the six clerics of the Guardian Council (appointed by the supreme leader) can run.

If you look at the historical record though, there's not much difference between different factions. Rouhani, the "reformer", has never reformed anything. He may have made some verbal digs against the Revolutionary Guards but he also doubled their budget under his rule. They change "governing" factions with no impact on the actual governance because it is the supreme leader who is truly in control anyway. Much like in the Russian parliamentary elections, it doesn't matter who wins because the parliament is just for show.

[Womble]

Speaking of being a fly on the wall...

‘Horrified’ Israeli intel officials ‘were shouting at US counterparts’ over Trump leak

US President Donald Trump’s reported sharing of a highly classified Israeli tip with Russia led to incredibly tense meetings between Israeli and American intelligence officials, Foreign Policy Magazine reported Friday.

The Israelis reportedly shouted at their US counterparts, demanding an explanation for Trump’s actions, according to the magazine, which quoted a US defense official.

“To them, it’s horrifying,” the official said. “Their first question was: ‘What is going on? What is this?’”

Meeting Russia’s foreign minister and ambassador to Washington in the Oval Office on May 10, Trump shared intelligence about an Islamic State threat involving laptops carried on airplanes, according to a senior US official.

ABC News reported that the information came specifically from a spy embedded in the terrorist group on behalf of Israel, and that Trump’s reported leak had placed the person’s life at risk.

The Israeli government has not officially confirmed that is the source of the reportedly leaked intelligence.

Though Washington and Jerusalem have publicly brushed aside reports of the incident, behind the scenes top Israeli defense officials are said to be angry and concerned by the president’s actions.

Beyond the possible danger to the source, FP reported that Israelis feared they had lost any further access to the spy’s intel.

Though the magazine noted that IS is not currently a major concern for the Jewish state, the spy was also reportedly a major asset in gaining information on the actions of Iran in Syria — through its Revolutionary Guards Corps and Lebanese proxy Hezbollah, both of which have been fighting for Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Israeli is increasingly worried of Iran entrenching itself along its northern border through its proxy groups and agents.

“To the Israelis, ISIS is not that big of a concern,” the defense official said, using another name for IS. “We have a partner that has done us a favor. They went out of their way to support us in a campaign against ISIS, that they have no real skin in.”

US and Israeli officials have tried to allay concerns. National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster told reporters that Trump’s disclosure was “wholly appropriate.” Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman tweeted that the allies will continue to have a “deep, meaningful and unprecedented” security relationship.

But some of the people who’ve spent years safeguarding that relationship say there will be consequences.

Intelligence professionals in the United States are “deeply concerned, frustrated and increasingly disillusioned,” one former intelligence official said. Another former intelligence official said the concern is that Israel will start “fuzzing” intelligence it shares with the US, avoiding specifics or detailing how information is obtained. Both individuals spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to relay the sentiments they gleaned from conversations with current intelligence officials.

Shabtai Shavit, who led the Mossad in the 1990s, said that were he in charge of the intelligence organization today, he would not be inclined to share more information with his American counterparts. “If tomorrow I were asked to pass information to the CIA, I would do everything I could to not pass it to them. Or I would first protect myself and only then give it, and what I’d give would be totally neutered,” Shavit told The Times of Israel on Wednesday. “If some smart guy decides that he’s allowed to leak information, then your partners in cooperation will be fewer or just won’t be at all,” he warned. Danny Yatom, another ex-Mossad boss, told an Israeli radio station that if reports were accurate, Trump likely caused “heavy damage” to Israeli and American security.

[Gatefan1976]

It's not a good result, it's a predictable result. Iran is not an actual democracy; no candidate that hasn't been vetted by the supreme leader and the six clerics of the Guardian Council (appointed by the supreme leader) can run.

If you look at the historical record though, there's not much difference between different factions. Rouhani, the "reformer", has never reformed anything. He may have made some verbal digs against the Revolutionary Guards but he also doubled their budget under his rule. They change "governing" factions with no impact on the actual governance because it is the supreme leader who is truly in control anyway. Much like in the Russian parliamentary elections, it doesn't matter who wins because the parliament is just for show.

Yeah, I got that it was mainly "democracy for a day", I was more thinking that the other candidate was far more hardcore in his devotion to "pure Islam". The other 2 who were still running never stood a chance. I get what you say about it being a predictable outcome though, but as your story about Trump and his leak shows, you gotta find some sunshine -somewhere- even if the bar is massively low.

[Gatefan1976]

Speaking of being a fly on the wall...

Yes, I read that article, I go back to what I said when this story first broke, Mossad is going to pissed.

[Womble]

Yeah, I got that it was mainly "democracy for a day", I was more thinking that the other candidate was far more hardcore in his devotion to "pure Islam". The other 2 who were still running never stood a chance. I get what you say about it being a predictable outcome though, but as your story about Trump and his leak shows, you gotta find some sunshine -somewhere- even if the bar is massively low.

It reminds me of the moderate Comrade Molotov and the extremist Comrade Stalin. Molotov wore a top hat and spoke nicely, so the people with an urge to find some sunshine somewhere were willing to forget that he was not a moderating influence on Stalin but a man acting on Stalin's behalf.

[Gatefan1976]

It reminds me of the moderate Comrade Molotov and the extremist Comrade Stalin. Molotov wore a top hat and spoke nicely, so the people with an urge to find some sunshine somewhere were willing to forget that he was not a moderating influence on Stalin but a man acting on Stalin's behalf.

Prickly
Perhaps you would prefer that it is better to be in a small pile of poo than a big pile of poo. If I am getting your comparison right however, wouldn't Stalin be the Ayotollah, Rouhani is Molotov and the other would be Yezhov?

[Womble]

Prickly
Perhaps you would prefer that it is better to be in a small pile of poo than a big pile of poo. If I am getting your comparison right however, wouldn't Stalin be the Ayotollah, Rouhani is Molotov and the other would be Yezhov?

Actually the correct analogy would be Vyshinsky, the legal mastermind behind Stalin's purges, who replaced Molotov as the USSR foreign minister.

[garhkal]

Neither are worth your time or attention.

Maybe that explains why i am still single.

Are they? Isn't one of the largest arguments about left leaning democrats that they want to engage in massive wealth distribution via things like climate change?
Where do the dems want to put the wealth?
Where do the Repubs want to put the wealth?

Are not the DNC also beholden to big businesses and super pacs? THat is what i was getting at..

How do they make you "celebrate it"?

How's about Disney and other companies holding their 'pride parades' and if you don't participate (meaning you are now being forced to celebrate), you can be fired (know 2 people who HAVE been fired from Home depot cause of it).

Are you your DNA, or are you a person?

Both.

Have you seen some of the Women who have transitioned to men? Some would scare the crap out of other men due to their physiques, let alone putting them in a womans bathroom. Some of the Men who have transitioned to woman would make you think "I'd tap that" based off looks as well, want to put them in the mens room where they would be surrounded by men thinking that?

Yes i have seen some, and most DO make me go "UG, scary!.." Have not seen one that would make me go "i'd tap that" based on how they look.. YET.

Are you so sure it's a small minority?
It might be in New Orleans, but N.O. is not the U.S.

Based on the news reports i've seen which have comments on it, showing people's displeasure, vs the few that agree with it, i'd say so..

[SoulReaver]

No, its more like the majority of the population has to change its behavior because (insert some vocal minority group here) complains that they don't like it because (insert reason here).

I could spend all day listing examples, but I don't have all day.

The "war on Christmas" for one example.

Another would be "The Dukes of Hazzard" TV show from the eighties. This was doing well in re-runs on CMT and other channels until a year or two ago, some "group" decided that they were offended by the Confederate flag which was displayed on the roof of the General Lee.

what about flag desecration you offended by that?

Like I said, this plays out in so many arenas I couldn't sit here and list them all. but I hope you get the idea.

and your "democracy" is a farce I hope you get the idea

[Annoyed]

I am torn on that. I've known people who, THESE days would be seen as having ADD/ADHD, but who after getting proper discipline and people not putting up with their antics, CHANGED.. So what made it to where someone acting out in the old days, is now seen as having a mental dysfunction?

Because these days, if some head shrinker can tag it with a medical-sounding label, they get get govt. funding to "treat" the supposed illness.

Because it's denying our history..
Its also the same as those few colleges who are wanting to ban the US flag, cause some minorities and illegal immigrant students might be offended.. BUT they care not that banning it is offensive to the MAJORITY of US citizens who's tax dollars pay for their school..

Another fine example of the tyranny of the minority.