The Political Discussion Thread

[Rudy Pena]

Links:
http://www.cmrlink.org/social.asp?DocID=276

According to a report of the Defense Department Inspector General released in 2005, approximately 73% of women and 72% of men at the military service academies believe that false accusations of sexual assault are a problem.

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com...-men-with.html

"In the media and on Capitol Hill, there's this myth that the military doesn't take sexual assault seriously," said Michael Waddington, a former Army judge advocate who now defends the cases. "But the reality is they're charging more and more people with bogus cases just to show that they do take it seriously."

http://court-martial.com/ucmj-and-se...t-accusations/

About a week later the husband approached the client and told him that he (the husband) had to come forward and tell the truth. It turns out that the husband and the complaining witness wife lied — in their statements to CID and at the Article 32, UCMJ, hearing. There was no rape. The husband has admitted that both he and the wife were awake and engaged in sexual activity themselves. The husband said the client was present, but that essentially any events in the bedroom were consensual. (There was no DNA evidence of the client on the clothing or bedding, only of the husband.)
Had we gone to trial on this charge we had a motive to lie. This accused was lucky, will you be.

http://ncfm.org/2009/01/issues/false-accusations/

In a study by the U.S. Air Force, about one-forth of rape accusers recanted just before taking a lie detector test or after failing one. Further research found 60% of the accusations were false. The most common reasons given for making false accusations were spite or revenge, feelings of guilt or shame, or to cover up an affair. McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64. (see Center for Military Readiness article “Sex, Lies, and Rape” for an excellent discussion of false accusations).

Took some quotes for you guys, if you dont want to read them.

[Goose]

OK, fair enough, but if we take the high number of 60% of all cases being false, then how do you account for the fact that the Guardian article highlights the fact that only 529 out of 3158 cases were brought to trial? That makes the percentage of cases being brought to trial just under 17%. If only 40% of all cases did actually involve rape, as per the assumption that 60% are false, then we're still missing 700-odd cases being brought to court.

[Rudy Pena]

OK, fair enough, but if we take the high number of 60% of all cases being false, then how do you account for the fact that the Guardian article highlights the fact that only 529 out of 3158 cases were brought to trial? That makes the percentage of cases being brought to trial just under 17%. If only 40% of all cases did actually involve rape, as per the assumption that 60% are false, then we're still missing 700-odd cases being brought to court.

If you read or even skimmed the links, you would have read that in a few of them say, that quite a few cases go to court marshal just to make it look like the military is taking it seriously. Which in fact I quoted from the second link. And that if you did looked at them, they say it is the commanders decision to go to court marshal upon legal advise they get from the investigation. So maybe go read or at least look at what I post before just saying that.

[Goose]

If you read or even skimmed the links, you would have read that in a few of them say, that quite a few cases go to court marshal just to make it look like the military is taking it seriously. Which in fact I quoted from the second link. And that if you did looked at them, they say it is the commanders decision to go to court marshal upon legal advise they get from the investigation. So maybe go read or at least look at what I post before just saying that.

So of the 17% of cases that go to court, a few of them are false? So in reality, it's even less that 17% of all reported cases that go to case and are true? Is that what you're saying?

[Rudy Pena]

So of the 17% of cases that go to court, a few of them are false? So in reality, it's even less that 17% of all reported cases that go to case and are true? Is that what you're saying?

If you cant read or look at the links yourself, I cant help answer it. As the answer you seek is in the links.

[Goose]

If you cant read or look at the links yourself, I cant help answer it. As the answer you seek is in the links.

I did read it, and it didn't make much sense to me.

[Rudy Pena]

I did read it, and it didn't make much sense to me.

Ok, well if it didnt make sense, it might be good to reread it or do your own research about it.

[Goose]

Ok, well if it didnt make sense, it might be good to reread it or do your own research about it.

I read it twice. Quite frankly, I don't even care that much. I'm just saying that only 17% of alleged cases going to court seems like a rather low number. I don't believe that 83% of all alleged cases of rape turn out to be true. It's a ridiculously high number, and doesn't ring true with me.

[Rudy Pena]

I read it twice. Quite frankly, I don't even care that much. I'm just saying that only 17% of alleged cases going to court seems like a rather low number. I don't believe that 83% of all alleged cases of rape turn out to be true. It's a ridiculously high number, and doesn't ring true with me.

83% is not the percentage of sexual crimes in the military that are actually turns out to be true. I dont know the percentage, but what I do know is that there are many many people getting accused of rape or other sexual crimes by a female which turns out to be false for many reasons.

[Goose]

83% is not the percentage of sexual crimes in the military that are actually turns out to be true. I dont know the percentage, but what I do know is that there are many many people getting accused of rape or other sexual crimes by a female which turns out to be false for many reasons.

I'm not saying that the remaining 83% of cases that do not go to court are true. I'm not even saying that the 17% of cases that go to court are true. I'm just saying that it seems unlikely that all of those 83% of cases that don't go to court are false. I'm not denying that there are people who falsely accuse people of rape, but 83% of over 3,000 alleged cases seems like an unlikely high number.

[Rudy Pena]

I'm not saying that the remaining 83% of cases that do not go to court are true. I'm not even saying that the 17% of cases that go to court are true. I'm just saying that it seems unlikely that all of those 83% of cases that don't go to court are false. I'm not denying that there are people who falsely accuse people of rape, but 83% of over 3,000 alleged cases seems like an unlikely high number.

The 17% of the cases are not even true, as it is up to the commanders decision to make a case go to court even if the "victim" is lying and made false reports to the MPs or local law enforcement.

While the 83% may not all be false, there are most probably a few cases which are true but things may not add up. Which makes the commander not push it to a court marshal.

[Goose]

The 17% of the cases are not even true, as it is up to the commanders decision to make a case go to court even if the "victim" is lying and made false reports to the MPs or local law enforcement.

While the 83% may not all be false, there are most probably a few cases which are true but things may not add up. Which makes the commander not push it to a court marshal.

But if there are over 3,000 cases alleged each year, do you not think it's a bit odd that only 17% of those alleged cases end up in court?

[Rudy Pena]

But if there are over 3,000 cases alleged each year, do you not think it's a bit odd that only 17% of those alleged cases end up in court?

No I dont, Cause during a investigation they find out it it false or there is not enough evidence to prove there was a rape. And like I keep saying, it is the commanders choice to have to cases to go court or not.

[Goose]

No I dont, Cause during a investigation they find out it it false or there is not enough evidence to prove there was a rape. And like I keep saying, it is the commanders choice to have to cases to go court or not.

Right, so 2,500 of 3,000 alleged cases either didn't happen or don't have enough evidence. Gotcha.

[Rudy Pena]

Right, so 2,500 of 3,000 alleged cases either didn't happen or don't have enough evidence. Gotcha.

Well when it comes down to a she said he said and theres no other evidence........ Yeah theres not going to be a case sent to court by the commander. Military law is completely different from civilian laws.