The Political Discussion Thread

[Nolamom]

I'm glad they've given him a stay for now at least. Once he's been executed, if he's found innocent via DNA, it becomes a moot point

[LtColCarter]

Ahhh...Texas' own idiot wants to make more cuts to education if he gets to Washington. All I can say is I hope this country grows a brain and doesn't even give him the chance to make it to Washington.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Reporter: Have you ever been accused of sexually harassing anyone?

Cain: No, apart from in the restaurant industry (or something to that effect)

*Headdesk*

[shipper hannah]

Some UK news..

A private company is in deals to run an NHS hospital

Apparently, health team member Mark Simmonds MP is also a paid strategic advisor with Circle. Coincidence?

Did the Tories not see what happened when they privatised hospital cleaning and catering? Or privatising the train service and utilities? The outsourcing of hospital cleaning services resulted in a drop in standards that was partially responsible for the rise in nosocomial infections like MRSA.

"The NHS is safe in our hands" my @rse.

[SoulReaver]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...147015,00.html

it'll be interesting to see if the shooter gets punished this time

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Some UK news..

A private company is in deals to run an NHS hospital

Apparently, health team member Mark Simmonds MP is also a paid strategic advisor with Circle. Coincidence?

Did the Tories not see what happened when they privatised hospital cleaning and catering? Or privatising the train service and utilities? The outsourcing of hospital cleaning services resulted in a drop in standards that was partially responsible for the rise in nosocomial infections like MRSA.

"The NHS is safe in our hands" my @rse.

It is in £40,000,000 of debt. It will still be free at the point of entry.

[lordofseas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15697773

[Womble]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...147015,00.html

it'll be interesting to see if the shooter gets punished this time

From the description of the incident that I've seen so far, he will probably be punished, yes, although I am somewhat ambivalent about it. On one hand, de jure he is at fault for violating the rules of engagement; on the other hand, even though my own service was non-combat, I did my share of settlement guarding duties and I know first-hand that this kind of situations are very difficult to handle. A suspicious car speeding through the checkpoint doesn't leave you much time for thinking, and to try and shoot out its tires at night time you need to be one hell of a gunslinger. And if you don't shoot, tomorrow you might read in the news about a suicide bombing or an Itamar-style massacre.

It's a very messy situation; the soldier had good reasons to shoot, yet the driver was guilty of little more than some degree of recklessness coupled with poor eyesight.

(There are only two possible situations that are worse than this. One is an ambulance speeding through the checkpoint; the other is a car with US consulate license plates doing the same. The US consulate in Jerusalem has a habit of hiring Palestinian drivers without any background check, and it's not uncommon for US consulate cars to try to run over checkpoint guards).

[shipper hannah]

It is in £40,000,000 of debt. It will still be free at the point of entry.

Yeah, but Circle themselves made a loss of almost that much in just last year!

The prospect of a company (run by a former Goldman-Sachs banker ) making a profit from our NHS fills me with horror. What's more they have admitted that patient care could suffer due to their aggressive business strategy and wanting to expand and capitalise on the NHS.

..And there isn't exactly a good precedent for the government handing public services over to private companies.

[SoulReaver]

From the description of the incident that I've seen so far, he will probably be punished, yes, although I am somewhat ambivalent about it. On one hand, de jure he is at fault for violating the rules of engagement; on the other hand, even though my own service was non-combat, I did my share of settlement guarding duties and I know first-hand that this kind of situations are very difficult to handle. A suspicious car speeding through the checkpoint doesn't leave you much time for thinking, and to try and shoot out its tires at night time you need to be one hell of a gunslinger. And if you don't shoot, tomorrow you might read in the news about a suicide bombing or an Itamar-style massacre.

It's a very messy situation; the soldier had good reasons to shoot, yet the driver was guilty of little more than some degree of recklessness coupled with poor eyesight.

(There are only two possible situations that are worse than this. One is an ambulance speeding through the checkpoint; the other is a car with US consulate license plates doing the same. The US consulate in Jerusalem has a habit of hiring Palestinian drivers without any background check, and it's not uncommon for US consulate cars to try to run over checkpoint guards).

but ain't there a crucial difference in that unlike an armed civie in a similar situation, the soldier is specifically trained to be able to shoot to disable without killing in precisely this sort of scenario - the article itself mentions this
so basically he's guilty not of shooting, but of shooting & killing the bloke
it's for this reason that he ought to be convicted of involuntary homicide (in other words jail - even if only a suspended sentence - and a criminal record, discharge etc.)

there's a bunch of other articles from Israel that relate essentially the same thing

since you know the local system, what d'you think will happen?

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Yeah, but Circle themselves made a loss of almost that much in just last year!

The prospect of a company (run by a former Goldman-Sachs banker ) making a profit from our NHS fills me with horror. What's more they have admitted that patient care could suffer due to their aggressive business strategy and wanting to expand and capitalise on the NHS.

..And there isn't exactly a good precedent for the government handing public services over to private companies.

Fair point we'll just have to see.

[Womble]

but ain't there a crucial difference in that unlike an armed civie in a similar situation, the soldier is specifically trained to be able to shoot to disable without killing in precisely this sort of scenario - the article itself mentions this
so basically he's guilty not of shooting, but of shooting & killing the bloke
it's for this reason that he ought to be convicted of involuntary homicide (in other words jail - even if only a suspended sentence - and a criminal record, discharge etc.)

There's a more important difference- it was not a civilian situation. It was a military situation in a war zone. Civvie law doesn't apply and crime definitions work differently.

Military laws for such things are a different and distinct body of law from civilian criminal codes. They have to be. Soldiers can't do their jobs if in case of the slightest doubt in combat situations they need to have a lawyer on speed dial.

And you can train soldiers to do things a certain way, but you need to be realistic about how things work in the field. Shooting out the wheels of a speeding car at night time is an extremely difficult feat even for a well-trained marksman. Try to simply keep a stick aimed at this kind of target- without the need to calculate the actual bullet's impact point- and you'll see that.

since you know the local system, what d'you think will happen?

I honestly don't know. It's a difficult one. It will boil down to two things: whether or not he had sufficient reasons to open fire (probably yes) and whether or not he followed the proper procedure for intercepting a suspicious car (most likely not). There will most likely be a disciplinary punishment of some kind, but there is no basis for a criminal conviction.

[Col.Foley]

From the description of the incident that I've seen so far, he will probably be punished, yes, although I am somewhat ambivalent about it. On one hand, de jure he is at fault for violating the rules of engagement; on the other hand, even though my own service was non-combat, I did my share of settlement guarding duties and I know first-hand that this kind of situations are very difficult to handle. A suspicious car speeding through the checkpoint doesn't leave you much time for thinking, and to try and shoot out its tires at night time you need to be one hell of a gunslinger. And if you don't shoot, tomorrow you might read in the news about a suicide bombing or an Itamar-style massacre.

It's a very messy situation; the soldier had good reasons to shoot, yet the driver was guilty of little more than some degree of recklessness coupled with poor eyesight.

(There are only two possible situations that are worse than this. One is an ambulance speeding through the checkpoint; the other is a car with US consulate license plates doing the same. The US consulate in Jerusalem has a habit of hiring Palestinian drivers without any background check, and it's not uncommon for US consulate cars to try to run over checkpoint guards).

*facepalm* I weep at our stupidity sometimes.

[mad_gater]

*facepalm* I weep at our stupidity sometimes.

yeah...hiring anybody without checking them out is stupidity at its finest....

[Rudy Pena]

http://news.yahoo.com/teen-tweeter-w...230737888.html
this is just frakking dumb. No one should be making do things.